If nothing else, isn't Fatima an answer to the question of whether hell is empty or not?

[Gnarwhal]

There's so much discourse today about the status of hell. Empty, or full, who's there who isn't? "We don't know!"

But something that's been on my mind for a long time is something Our Lady told the seers at Fatima. She said "Most of the souls in hell are in hell because of sins of the flesh." Most. Not if there are souls in hell. There was no question of that, all that was to be explained was the why. She even showed the seers a glimpse of hell where there were human souls distinct from the demons.

So why does it seem like modern Catholics sugarcoats this, especially when trying to appeal to potential converts, instead of just saying the truth: yes there is a hell and there are people in it. We don't know who, though we can muster a guess based on deductive reasoning, but there are people there all the same.

Are the apparitions not to be relied on in any kind of doctrinal sense?

 

[Michie]

St. Faustina claimed to be given a bit of a tour of Hell as well as. It was not empty from what I recall when reading her Diary.

There's so much discourse today about the status of hell. Empty, or full, who's there who isn't? "We don't know!"

But something that's been on my mind for a long time is something Our Lady told the seers at Fatima. She said "Most of the souls in hell are in hell because of sins of the flesh." Most. Not if there are souls in hell. There was no question of that, all that was to be explained was the why. She even showed the seers a glimpse of hell where there were human souls distinct from the demons.

So why does it seem like modern Catholics sugarcoats this, especially when trying to appeal to potential converts, instead of just saying the truth: yes there is a hell and there are people in it. We don't know who, though we can muster a guess based on deductive reasoning, but there are people there all the same.

Are the apparitions not to be relied on in any kind of doctrinal sense?

 

[Michie]

Sister Faustina's Vision of Hell​

"I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence...the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell." (Diary 741)

The Apostle of Divine Mercy St. Maria Faustina Kowalska of the Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy​

"Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw: The First Torture that constitutes hell is: The loss of God. The Second is: Perpetual remorse of conscience. The Third is That one's condition will never change. The Fourth is: The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's anger. The Fifth Torture is: Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own. The Sixth Torture is: The constant company of Satan. The Seventh Torture is: Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.

These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings. Indescribable Sufferings There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned. I would have died There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me. No One Can Say There is No Hell Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like...how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God's mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary 741)​

 

[Gnarwhal]

St. Faustina claimed to be given a bit of a tour of Hell as well as. It was not empty from what I recall when reading her Diary.

I find it interesting then that different Saints, seers, etc have seen hell and these are visions and apparitions that are approved by the Church and yet arguments still exist that hell could be empty.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Our humanitarian instinct wants Hell to be empty. I think people also have a hard time coming to grips with the fact it appears to involve eternal punishment for temporal sins.

I think there are people in Hell unfortunately. I'm sure of it - I've said ad infinitum the night my father died he appeared in my room. We talked and argued, but at the very end he gave this absolutely blood curdling scream and then just disappeared. It was obvious something was coming for him.

His fear was contagious I started to scream and I couldn't even see what he could see. It was hidden from me.

It reminds me of the later Sister Lucy's comment about the vision of Hell at Fatima - "... How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror..."

As a matter of anthropromorphic interest, just before my father disappeared he was definitely turning to my left, and whatever it was that came for him came from the left. I remember that quite clearly, along with the bookcase I could see through him if I wanted to.

But prior to that he'd been looking over my head at something that either enthralled or appalled him (he was sometimes trying to hide his face behind his hands). If I assume he was looking at the judgement seat over and behind me, then I'd have been facing the same way as the "Judge".

Once again I was not allowed to see what he was looking at. I turned around a couple of times to see what he was looking at, but all I could see was the wall. I was simply barred from seeing what so enthralled him. Christ hid His identity from two disciples who walked several kilometres with Him, and they weren't allowed to recognise Him till He'd finished His spiel about the prophets and the scriptures. Then, and only then, did He take their blinkers off.

If I had seen what my father saw, I most likely would have have died on the spot as "no man can see my face and live". But my father was already dead, so he was able to see God (and not liking it much at times) as he was purely spiritual.

But he definitely went to my "left". Christ stated that the sheep will go to his right, and the goats to his left, so I have to assume my father was one of the "goats'.

Incidentally he spent 20 years deliberately trying to destroy my confidence and pretty well succeeded, so I don't miss him even if I'm slowly forgiving him. But his judgment was his own - not mine.

I'm quite sure Hell isn't empty. After all, why SHOULDN'T Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and all the rest of the tyrants pay for what they did? And my father, terrified to the core as he was, didn't do a fraction of the evil things they did. I don't think I'd like to be in their shoes.

As a closing comment, I'm Cathollc now, but I remember my old Presbyterian (ex-Methodist) pastor saying to me once "I think Catholics soft-pedal judgment. I think they do anyway." And he predicted I'd become Catholic.