If Mary was sinless?

[vrunca]

Don't worry about it. Mary was a sinner just like us, and she needed a savior just like us.

This must break Jesus' heart to hear you say things like this about his mom. Mary was not "just like us"...God would not have chosen someone "just like us" to bear His Son, our Savior Jesus Christ!!

 

[Qoheleth]

Oh please tell me how someone could be sinless and still need a savior please?

Because of death, none will rise...right?


Mary passed from this life, i.e. the Blessed virgin died...correct?

Our Lord Jesus defeated death...correct?

So, because of the life and work of Christ God, all will rise again to be in Christ or not (to salvation or damnation)...correct?

The Mother of our Lord could not have defeated death just as no creature could have...right?



Mary needed a savior then to rise again...correct?


Q

 

[ThreeAM]

How can there be a messenger without a message?
Was there a message? I must have missed it. As far as leaving the thread, I will leave that up to the moderators.

In case you missed the message: Every one with a human father and a human mother have sinned. Even Adam who's father was God sinned. Adam could not pass on a bithright of sinlessness because after he sinned he did not posess a sinless birthright

 

[Metanoia02]

In case you missed the message: Every one with a human father and a human mother have sinned. Even Adam who's father was God sinned. Adam could not pass on a bithright of sinlessness because after he sinned he did not posess a sinless birthright

Message received. Anything else?

 

[ThreeAM]

Message received. Anything else?

Yeah I would much rather discuss why you think Mary was sinless than for you to avoid the discussion...but that is just me.

 

[Metanoia02]

Yeah I would much rather discuss why you think Mary was sinless than for you to avoid the discussion...but that is just me.

What you call a discussion, I call an arguement. I could give you reasons but they will not satify you. It will only give you opportunity to attack the teaching of the Catholic Church. I don't expect you to understand.

 

[ThreeAM]

What you call a discussion, I call an arguement. I could give you reasons but they will not satify you. It will only give you opportunity to attack the teaching of the Catholic Church. I don't expect you to understand.

Fair enough as long as we stick to inspired scriptures I really don't think we would have to much of a problem but if you or the church disagree with the very plain devinely inspired words of Paul I would expect to disagree with you. I hope you understand.

 

[Cyberdyne1]

We needed a savior to save us from our sin. But wait a minute. God gave us a sinless Mary to bear Jesus. So if he did this to Mary, he could have done it for any/all of us. So then why did he send Jesus to die? He had another way to save us from our sin???

The catholic church is really hung up on Mary. I wonder who they are worshipping sometimes... The creation rather than the creator...

 

[Benedicta00]

Mary is but a women. Catholics she is not god.

We know...

 

[Benedicta00]

I can't answer your questions because half of it is a question, and the rest is a pre determined doctrine you have. I don't believe baptism removes origanl sin, so the only part I can answer is that yes, I know we have an origanl sin.

I didn’t ask you if you think baptism removes original sin, I asked if you realize that original sin is why we are sinners in the first place?

Mary had no personal sin because she never had original sin. She never had original sin because God saved her from her ever contracting it.

 

[Benedicta00]

EXCUSE ME??? I have never made the claim that "Catholics think that Mary is a God". But I did ask you a simple question which you failed to answer.

Have you read the thread? We have totally answered this question more than once, more than twice.

 

[Metanoia02]

The catholic church is really hung up on Mary.

Not sure if any Catholic have started any Mary threads here lately, but the non-Catholics sure seem interested in the subject judging by the numerous threads they start.

 

[BigChrisfilm]

I didn’t ask you if you think baptism removes original sin, I asked if you realize that original sin is why we are sinners in the first place?

Mary had no personal sin because she never had original sin. She never had original sin because God saved her from her ever contracting it.

Nope, I disagree. How are you going to prove me wrong?

 

[Benedicta00]

Nope, I disagree. How are you going to prove me wrong?

By citing scripture to you and the writings of the ECF, AND the early Protestant reformers I might add.

They form what we call a consensus.

 

[ThreeAM]

By citing scripture to you and the writings of the ECF, AND the early Protestant reformers I might add.

They form what we call a consensus.

And there in lies the problem. Resorting to noninspired writings to answer a question already answered in inspired writtings.....never a good idea.

 

[BigChrisfilm]

By citing scripture to you and the writings of the ECF, AND the early Protestant reformers I might add.

They form what we call a consensus.

Oh, where is that scripture at? You know I am not one for traditions, so that is all I require.

 

[thereselittleflower]

In your opinion, and that of The Church of Rome....

The other four Ancient Church (Jerusalem, Antioch, Constantinople and Alexandria), who speak GREEK, and not Latin, say it refers to the statement that Peter made.

Rome is the only Church in the world that says it refers to Peter himself.

Forgive me....

No OrthodoxyISA . .that's not true . . but that is a subject for another thread I think there have been threads recently addressing the fact that many others, other than Catholics, understand that the rock refers to Peter.



Peace

 

[Benedicta00]

Here is your scripture Chris.

God says to the serpent right here that he is going to create Mary free from sin.

Genesis 3: 15 15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed:

The world’s savior will come through Mary’s saying yes to God.

she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Here the angel greets Mary who is to be the “new Eve”.

28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Here is where Mary gives her fiat. The head of Satan is crushed.

38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

And here is her canticle. She says herself what God has done for her right here.

46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.

50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.

51 He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.

52 He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble.

53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

54 He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy:

And then we see in Revelation Mary, she is the great ‘sign” that John sees in heaven. This sign is the same woman in Genesis. Satan was told this sign, 'the woman' will crush his head, so he goes after her who is Mary to get her and her child who is Jesus but check out how he can not reach her in order to stop her from bringing fourth our savior, check out how she was protected from him by God and when Satan can’t get Mary or Jesus, he wages war on us.

Revelation 12

1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child
14 And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman, water as it were a river; that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the river, which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

18 And he stood upon the sand of the sea.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Oh please tell me how someone could be sinless and still need a savior please?

hi Chris . . I am confused, for I have done so several times already in various threads . . .

How is it that you are still asking for someone to explian it to you as if no one ever has?



Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

You just stepped into fairy tell land, and away from scripture.

Hardly!

Simply solidly based in reality.


Peace