If Man progresses to monkey, why is he not good at monkey things? At least partly??

SkyWriting · Jan 20, 2019

Gottservant said:
Hi there,So it could be that I am ham-fisting this: but cognitive tests of monkeys have shown that their cognition is a lot faster than ours, for explicit challenges that don't require greater and greater cognitive strength - remembering sequences of numbers, that sort of thing.
I just don't see men learning from animals, what they claim to?

What did you want us to learn?

The Barbarian · Jan 20, 2019

Hi there,So it could be that I am ham-fisting this: but cognitive tests of monkeys have shown that their cognition is a lot faster than ours, for explicit challenges that don't require greater and greater cognitive strength

Pretty much what you'd expect for them, living in the environment they do. Birds have better color discrimination than we do. I don't see why that's surprising. Evolution doesn't mean "better"; it means "more fit for the environment."

Humans are just better at figuring things out, and at anticipating things in the future.

And at rigging together tools to enlarge our physical capabilities, of course.

Gottservant · Jan 20, 2019

dgiharris said:
I'm not sure validating the evolutionary process was my objective,

I have no idea what you are talking about here. Can you clarify your point?

Apes are super fast at remembering sequences, climbing trees and get in rough and tumbles with other apes to determine who is boss.

None of that is reflecting in the descendents, that humans are supposed to be.

(yet they are positive adaptive traits that continue to help apes survive?)

Gottservant · Jan 20, 2019

SkyWriting said:
What did you want us to learn?

Gottservant said:
Apes are super fast at remembering sequences, climbing trees and get in rough and tumbles with other apes to determine who is boss.

None of that is reflecting in the descendents, that humans are supposed to be.

(yet they are positive adaptive traits that continue to help apes survive?)

Radagast · Jan 20, 2019

Gottservant said:
Apes are super fast at remembering sequences

Not really. Unless you mean that one chimp experiment where the chimp was trained for 7 years to play a specific game.

And human beings are not bad at climbing either, if they grow up doing it.

dgiharris · Jan 21, 2019

Gottservant said:
Apes are super fast at remembering sequences, climbing trees and get in rough and tumbles with other apes to determine who is boss.

None of that is reflecting in the descendents, that humans are supposed to be.

(yet they are positive adaptive traits that continue to help apes survive?)

I'm sorry I'm not trying to troll you...

but I have no idea what you are trying to argue?

Are you trying to argue that since humans and apes come from a common ancestor that humans need to have all the traits that apes have?

Are you trying to argue that I'm arguing that apes can't have positive traits???

I have no idea what you are trying to argue, can you please try to make a cogent coherent clear argument of the exact point you are trying to make???

dgiharris · Jan 21, 2019

Radagast said:
And human beings are not bad at climbing either, if they grow up doing it.

Those of us who grew up climbing trees are ridiculously good at it. In fact, it is obvious when you look at how well kids love to climb trees...

Sure, we aren't as good as the other apes, but we can make a respectable showing.

Queller · Jan 23, 2019

Gottservant said:
Apes are super fast at remembering sequences, climbing trees and get in rough and tumbles with other apes to determine who is boss.

None of that is reflecting in the descendents, that humans are supposed to be.

We are not descendants of modern apes. We share a common ancestor with them.

(yet they are positive adaptive traits that continue to help apes survive?)

And yet plop a modern man down in their environment with modern tools and he will decimate the local ape population very quickly.

The Barbarian · Jan 23, 2019

Queller said:
And yet plop a modern man down in their environment with modern tools and he will decimate the local ape population very quickly.

Plop a primitive man down in their environment, and he will quickly reduce the population of apes in the area. That's why there were so few apes, relative to humans, even in the distant past.

Gottservant · Jan 23, 2019

Oh so quickly do you say "we climb"

...apes leap from branch to branch

as for claiming we could decimate apes, I don't see an ape saying it could decimate lesser species than it?

Radagast · Jan 24, 2019

Gottservant said:
Oh so quickly do you say "we climb"

...apes leap from branch to branch

We humans have the body structure for it, but often not the practice.

So, let's brachiate!

Queller · Jan 24, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Plop a primitive man down in their environment, and he will quickly reduce the population of apes in the area. That's why there were so few apes, relative to humans, even in the distant past.

Good point. I was thinking of how we are now with regards to how apes are now. But primitive man would have been just as deadly to apes.

The Barbarian · Jan 24, 2019

Gottservant said:
as for claiming we could decimate apes,

We've already done that. Of dozens of species of great apes, only four remain. And one of them has reduced the remaining three to a tiny fraction of their former numbers.

I don't see an ape saying it could decimate lesser species than it?

Well, only one has a very good ability to use language.

Petros2015 · Jan 24, 2019

Queller said:
But primitive man would have been just as deadly to apes.

We have language - we can conceive and communicate ideas like 'let's kill all our enemies while they are sleeping'.

Gorillas and monkeys don't do that.

But all of us are still pretty good at throwing poo at each other.

The Barbarian · Jan 24, 2019

Petros2015 said:
Gorillas and monkeys don't do that.

Actually, chimpanzees do. They have wars with other troops of chimpanzees, and have occasionally wiped out their rivals.

We're just way better at it than they are.

dgiharris · Jan 25, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Plop a primitive man down in their environment, and he will quickly reduce the population of apes in the area. That's why there were so few apes, relative to humans, even in the distant past.

I'm kinda amazed at the ignorance of this thread. It's not like human beings had guns and tanks 100,000 years ago...

I don't think people in this thread comprehend just how incredible human beings are at using tools. We are quite literally the Batman of the Animal Kingdom and we've been the Batmen of the Animal Kingdom for hundreds of thousands of years.

The ability for all of mankind to create a spear and then to use said spear in a superior fashion that no other animal on the planet can even approach is "one" of the things that has led to our complete physical dominance on the planet.

ANother thing that every primitive tribe on the planet has done is to figure out the local poisons in their area and to tip their weapons (or bait) with that local poison-- be it venom from a snake, poison from a plant, etc

Yes, I know an 800 lb gorilla is formidable-- But he can't beat 3 to 4 well trained humans with spears. ANd that basically is how human beings came to dominate the globe. There is no animal a small group of us with spears can't kill.

ANd when you up our tool use to include the sling, bow and arrow, fire, and metal work, then it's game over for every animal and Homo Sapiens wins every time.

The Barbarian · Jan 25, 2019

Actually, no predator will challenge a troop of chimpanzees. When trouble appears, they break off branches to use as clubs, and throw stones.

And they can break bones with clubs. Not as well as we can, but enough to persuade any predator in their world to leave a group of them alone.

Aggression toward Large Carnivores by Wild Chimpanzees of Mahale Mountains National Park, Tanzania
Folia Primatol 1986;47:8–13
Abstract

In the Mahale Mountains National Park of Tanzania, a group of about 33 chimpanzees were observed to surround a leopard den containing a mother and at least one cub and to drag out and kill the cub. This is the first report of chimpanzees or any other primate species killing their potential predator’s offspring. The incident suggests that chimpanzees, without any weapons, can manage to defend themselves against a carnivore of at least up to leopard size, and implicates how the early hominids may have reacted against their potential predators.

If Man progresses to monkey, why is he not good at monkey things? At least partly??

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