If Jews believe in reincarnation, what is resurrection in the Jewish context?

[Fascinated With God]

Orthodox Jews fervently believe in reincarnation and that it has always been a part of Judaism. They site Job 33:29 that some men nearly go to Hell two or three times before learning their lesson, and in the context of whole of chapter 33 it is clearly speaking of a once-in-a-lifetime event. They also site the Gospels when Jesus asks, "Who do you say that I am?" and one disciple says that the people think he is the reincarnation of Elijah. The Talmud, written at the same time as the Gospels, has numerous references to reincarnation.

To Christians, resurrection is basically a one-time-only reincarnation, but if the Jews believe in unlimited reincarnations then that would reduce the resurrection to nothing more than a special reincarnation. Clearly the Old Testament writers put much more profound meaning in the resurrection than reincarnation which they have very little to say about. But what it is I can't imagine.

Does anyone here have a clue? I didn't even know Jews believe in reincarnation till just a couples of years ago. I have never once heard a Christian mention it and I don't think hardly any Christians have the slightest awareness of this fact that Christianity arose from a religion that believes in reincarnation.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Some Jews believe in reincarnation. It's more common among the Hasidim or "Ultra-Orthodox" who tend to have a more mystical approach to religion anyway.

Some Orthodox Jews believe in reincarnation, others don't, in fact it's probably a minority who do.

For those who do, they see reincarnation as a way of explaining how every Jewish soul was present at Sinai to agree to the Covenant (a firmly entrenched rabbinic teaching in Judaism).

Resurrection in Judaism is likewise a complicated issue, Jewish views of resurrection run from a fairly conventional people actually rising from the dead in the world to come, to something else.

The thing about Judaism is that outside of a few key points, most religious questions are points to be debated. Ask five Jews a question and get ten answers.

Judaism isn't an orthodoxical religion, but an orthopraxical one. The essence of Judaism isn't on having a uniform religious theology and confession, but a uniform religious practice.

As such the best way to understand what Jews believe is to go ahead and ask them, and understand that you will get different answers, not only from one "denomination" to the next, but even within the same school of thought, or even from the same individual. Because, again, the essence of Judaism isn't uniformity of belief, but uniformity of practice; as such many questions have no answer/have many answers.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[elliott95]

The one passage in the New Testament that implied belief among some Jews in reincarnation had to do with the idea that John the Baptist was Elijah.


Was John the Baptist really Elijah? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

1. Yes, he was Elijah (Matthew 11:13-14)--"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14"And if you care to accept it, he himself is Elijah, who was to come."

2. No, he was not Elijah (John 1:19-21)--"And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" 20And he confessed, and did not deny, and he confessed, "I am not the Christ." 21And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he *said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."

 

[Knee V]

The Judaism of today is not the Judaism of Moses or David or Malachi or John the Baptist. Modern Judaism has very little to do with the roots of the Christian faith.

 

[Fascinated With God]

The one passage in the New Testament that implied belief among some Jews in reincarnation had to do with the idea that John the Baptist was Elijah.


Was John the Baptist really Elijah? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

But there is an OT reference in Job, not just an NT one.

 

[elliott95]

But there is an OT reference in Job, not just an NT one.

I wasn't aware of the Job reference. Do you have it handy?

 

[Erth]

If someone can interpret the Book of Job to be somehow supportive of reincarnation, then that only proves once more the total failure of the fundamentalistic biblical approach to faith and doctrine.

Judaism is not at all supportive of reincarnation as far as I'm aware. Trying to mix up reincarnation with resurrection is nothing but a falsification. Reincarnation roughly means "to assume flesh again", and the concept implies that a soul that has left one flesh, because it was used up and bound to die, may then assume a different flesh, and come back to continue its life in this world in a different flesh. Reincarnation belief is incompatible with Judaism and Christianity alike, which do not say that God gives multiple bodies to the same soul. That claim is a total absurdity from a Jewish as well as from a Christian point of view.

Now if there are Jewish sects that do believe in reincarnation in spite of everything, then that helps explain the reported bias against them.

 

[elliott95]

......
Judaism is not at all supportive of reincarnation as far as I'm aware......

There was an orthodox Jew on here at one point, and he noted that reincarnation is a traditional belief among some Jews, even now.

Certainly Matthew can be understood to be demonstrating a belief in the reincarnation of Elijah, just on the basis of the plain text.
John just as plainly states that this was definitely not the case-perhaps as a direct refutation of that kind of understanding of the Matthew text.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Nothing in the Old Testament suggest reincarnation in the sense used by the Hindu and Buddhist religions.

Job 19:25-27 records the words of Job himself. However, there is much dissention about what some of the words actually mean. The commonest understanding is that Job would - even after his own death - see his 'vindicator', Almighty God. Most scholars consider this as what we would term resurrection, not reincarnation.

It can be held to mean reincarnation. However, it seems to be the only time this phenomenon is mentioned in the Old Testament.

Also, there is a prophesy the 'Spirit of Elijah' would return to announce the coming of the Messiah. This is mentioned both in Luke when an angel speaks to Zachariah about John's (the Baptizer) birth and in Matthew 11. However, it does NOT say Elijah will return in human form, it speaks of the Spirit of Elijah.

They - some of them - believed in an afterlife. Check out the essential beliefs of Pharisees and Sadducees.

Modern Judaism? I'm lost. Perhaps the terms 'resurrection' and 'reincarnation' have been conflated? All the modern Jews I know seem to be of the 'social' variety; not the 'religious' sort. (Like some Christians, except the Christians don't recognize the difference.)

 

[Tallguy88]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been moved from General Theology to Christianity and Word Religions.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[BobRyan]

Nothing in the Old Testament suggest reincarnation in the sense used by the Hindu and Buddhist religions.

That is true.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Agnikan]

Yonassan Gershom's books Beyond the Ashes and Jewish Tales of Reincarnation are good places to start. He outlines that Jewish ideas of the afterlife fall in four main categories:

(1) survival through one's descendants;
(2) physical resurrection;
(3) living as an immortal soul in heaven; and
(4) reincarnation.

The key point here is that these four ideas are not mutually exclusive. For instance, one might believe that one's children carry on one's name and culture, and still believe that one will also live in heaven as a soul. Or, one might believe that one's immortal soul will reincarnate multiple times, after which a final physical resurrection will occur after one has learned all the lessons one needed to learn via reincarnation.

Now, one might ask: if one has been reincarnated many times, which body will one have at the final physical resurrection? One answer to this question (according to the Chabad Lubavitch, an Hasidic Jewish community) goes back to the idea of the immortality of the soul. If a soul has reincarnated in many bodies, then it will be resurrected in those many bodies as well. This is made possible because the soul, though immortal, is able to divide itself into many parts. A part of the soul will then be embodied in each of the resurrected bodies. (All humans souls are, in fact, 'parts' of the one soul that was Adam.)

 

[LoAmmi]

Some Jews believe in reincarnation. It's more common among the Hasidim or "Ultra-Orthodox" who tend to have a more mystical approach to religion anyway.

Some Orthodox Jews believe in reincarnation, others don't, in fact it's probably a minority who do.

For those who do, they see reincarnation as a way of explaining how every Jewish soul was present at Sinai to agree to the Covenant (a firmly entrenched rabbinic teaching in Judaism).

Resurrection in Judaism is likewise a complicated issue, Jewish views of resurrection run from a fairly conventional people actually rising from the dead in the world to come, to something else.

The thing about Judaism is that outside of a few key points, most religious questions are points to be debated. Ask five Jews a question and get ten answers.

Judaism isn't an orthodoxical religion, but an orthopraxical one. The essence of Judaism isn't on having a uniform religious theology and confession, but a uniform religious practice.

As such the best way to understand what Jews believe is to go ahead and ask them, and understand that you will get different answers, not only from one "denomination" to the next, but even within the same school of thought, or even from the same individual. Because, again, the essence of Judaism isn't uniformity of belief, but uniformity of practice; as such many questions have no answer/have many answers.

I probably couldn't have put it better myself. This is the best answer.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Yet there are only 4 denominations of Judaism vs 3000+ denominations of Christianity.

As to ending reincarnation, that is a purely Hindu/Buddhist goal. Jewish reincarnation does not involve any desire to escape the physical world and retreat into the spirit world. That is fatalistic escapism, which plays no part in Jewish theology.

 

[elliott95]

There may be well only four denominations of Judaism, but I am pretty sure that it was in this very thread where the evidence was given than in any group of four Jews, there will be a least five hotly contested points of view.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

In the context of Christianity, the concept of reincarnation was apparently condemned by the Second Council of Constantinople - a highly controversial and politically motivated event.
Pope Vigilius refused to attend, even though he was in the city at the time, and even issued an edict forbidding the council from proceeding without him.
Emperor Justinian I's reaction to that was to have the pope excommunicated and imprisoned, until he publicly declared six months later that he agreed completely with everything the council had decided.

Curiously enough, nobody ever thought of calling these proceedings into question, and it's been a binding part of both the Eastern and Western church (and most of their protestant descendants) ever since.

 

[LoAmmi]

There may be well only four denominations of Judaism, but I am pretty sure that it was in this very thread where the evidence was given than in any group of four Jews, there will be a least five hotly contested points of view.

The separation between the four denominations has to do with the view of how binding the Torah is upon Jews. Points of view are just that. A lot of things are fluid and open to debate because we don't believe you have to have the exact correct beliefs.

 

[danny ski]

In the context of Christianity, the concept of reincarnation was apparently condemned by the Second Council of Constantinople - a highly controversial and politically motivated event.
Pope Vigilius refused to attend, even though he was in the city at the time, and even issued an edict forbidding the council from proceeding without him.
Emperor Justinian I's reaction to that was to have the pope excommunicated and imprisoned, until he publicly declared six months later that he agreed completely with everything the council had decided.

Curiously enough, nobody ever thought of calling these proceedings into question, and it's been a binding part of both the Eastern and Western church (and most of their protestant descendants) ever since.

Which I find strange, since the concept of reincarnation is right there in the Christian Bible. John 9 1-2

 

[elliott95]

...The thing about Judaism is that outside of a few key points, most religious questions are points to be debated. Ask five Jews a question and get ten answers. ....

I probably couldn't have put it better myself. This is the best answer.

The separation between the four denominations has to do with the view of how binding the Torah is upon Jews. Points of view are just that. A lot of things are fluid and open to debate because we don't believe you have to have the exact correct beliefs.

Still, it is a pertinent part of any discussion of Jewish ideas on reincarnation, as you have already firmly agreed.

 

[smaneck]

Which I find strange, since the concept of reincarnation is right there in the Christian Bible. John 9 1-2

Is it? We have the concept of 'return' in the Baha'i Faith but we don't mean reincarnation. We mean the 'return' of someones qualities and function. For instance we see the Bab as the 'return of Christ' in the same sense that John the Baptist was the 'return' of Elijah.