If Jesus says...

[Saucy]

If Jesus says that there was a GLOBAL flood, does that mean it happened?

If Jesus says He created the heavens and the earth during CREATION, not evolution, doesn't that make it credible?

Lots of theistic evolutionists seem to be forgetting that Jesus supports creation and a global flood, while they're embracing the words of men when it comes to science. Science changes...the Word never has...

 

[LewisWildermuth]

If Jesus says that there was a GLOBAL flood, does that mean it happened?

Depends on how He said it, Jesus said that mustard was the smallest seed, it is not, it may have been the smallest seed near Him when he was looking for an example to use in a story, but it is by no means the smallest seed.

If Jesus says He created the heavens and the earth during CREATION, not evolution, doesn't that make it credible?

First, creation is not denied by people who accept evolution, just the idea that the Bible is a biology text book. The symbolic patterns of creation from both creation stories in Genesis are still important, just not scientific texts.

And if Jesus did say that evolution was not what happened, it might be important, but He didn’t.

Lots of theistic evolutionists seem to be forgetting that Jesus supports creation and a global flood, while they're embracing the words of men when it comes to science. Science changes...the Word never has...

Lots of creationists seem to enjoy saying Jesus supported things that were never mentioned in the texts.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Jesus never mentioned that each person's body formed as a result of the union of a sperm cell and an egg cell. In fact the bible never mentions this phenomenon at all.

Therefore this scientific thoery that a sperm fertilizes an egg - to become a single celled organism, which grows for a while and presto you have a human being is totally absurd and against biblical teachings! Each person is a special creation of God and not the product of some natrualistic process.

 

[shernren]

This being granted, I think that in discussions of physical problems we ought to begin not from the authority of scriptural passages but from sense experiences and necessary demonstrations; for the holy Bible and the phenomena of nature proceed alike from the divine Word the former as the dictate of the Holy Ghost and the latter as the observant executrix of God's commands.

Galileo, 1615

 

[billwald]

If Jesus says that only dead seeds can sprout it is still bad science.

 

[Jase]

If Jesus says that there was a GLOBAL flood, does that mean it happened?

If Jesus says He created the heavens and the earth during CREATION, not evolution, doesn't that make it credible?

Lots of theistic evolutionists seem to be forgetting that Jesus supports creation and a global flood, while they're embracing the words of men when it comes to science. Science changes...the Word never has...

Jesus never said there was a global flood, nor did he say evolution never occurred. Nor can you prove that what Jesus said in the Bible was in fact accurate and complete.

Using the words of the Bible to prove the words of the Bible is called circular logic.

 

[jereth]

If Jesus says that there was a GLOBAL flood, does that mean it happened?

Yes -- if he did say there was one. Problem is, Jesus never did say there was a global flood.

If Jesus says He created the heavens and the earth during CREATION, not evolution, doesn't that make it credible?

Jesus never said evolution didn't happen (unless of course you have access to some apocyphal gospel that I've never read!)

 

[jeffweeder]

If Jesus says that there was a GLOBAL flood, does that mean it happened?

This is what he said;
26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
http://www.christianforums.com/27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.



http://www.christianforums.com/28 "It[18][Lit In the same way as ] was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
http://www.christianforums.com/29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone[19][I.e. burning sulfur] from heaven and destroyed them all. -
I suppose they dont believe this either.

He said it alright
http://www.christianforums.com/4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
http://www.christianforums.com/5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher[1][Or herald ] of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
http://www.christianforums.com/6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

-Peter took him seriously, so should we

If Jesus says He created the heavens and the earth during CREATION, not evolution, doesn't that make it credible?

No lie is found in the mouth of the lord, there is nothing more credible ,is there?

Lots of theistic evolutionists seem to be forgetting that Jesus supports creation and a global flood, while they're embracing the words of men when it comes to science. Science changes...the Word never has...

The same yesterday ,today and 4ever

 

[Mallon]

Science changes...the Word never has...

Maybe you could help me locate John 5:4, Acts 8:37, and 1 John 5:7, then?

 

[Assyrian]

This is what he said;
26"And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.



28"It[18][Lit In the same way as ] was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
29but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone[19][I.e. burning sulfur] from heaven and destroyed them all. -
I suppose they dont believe this either.

He said it alright

I believe it alright. It just doesn't say what you think it says.

You greened the all in the Noah verse, but not in the Lot verse. Why is that? And if destroyed them all meant the whole globe was destroyed in the flood, why doesn't it mean the whole globe was destroyed by fire and brimstone? In fact Jesus never said the whole globe was flooded. Neither did Peter. 'The world of the ungodly' is talking about sinful human civilization, not the planet.

 

[shernren]

Jesus never said evolution didn't happen (unless of course you have access to some apocyphal gospel that I've never read!)

The Gospel According to Ken Ham

was recently discovered in the same cave as the Dead Sea Scrolls but further in. News of the find has greatly excited fundamentalists, who are eager to incorporate it into the canon as the 67th book of the Bible and start using numerous new verses to hammer evolution, such as:

KH 1:1-4 Now Jesus did sit and begin to teach His disciples. "In the beginning, which now no human can scientifically verify was 4,000 years ago, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the heavens were a vast vacuum - Peter, wipe that smirk off your face, vacua exist, no matter what that fool Aristotle said - and the earth was a ball of water. And then God began the gravitational expansion of spacetime.

KH 4:6 Oh ye of little faith, when will you grow up and learn? If you do not understand when I speak to you of earthly things such as the inconstancy of radiometric decay and the lack of transitional fossils, how will you understand heavenly things such as being born again?

KH 5:19-21 Behold, in the last day scoffers shall arise, and discover that all physical evidence points to evolution and an old world. Blessed are those in that day who hang on to My words and ignore reality.

KH 24:6-8 And if your brain causes you to sin, rip it out; for it is better to enter the Kingdom of God brainless than to be branded an evolutionist for eternity.

Fundamentalism has dismissed claims of forgery and deception as coming from the "same skeptical nature that ultimately caused Spong to deny the Resurrection." Critics, however, deny any naturalistic motives and urge the church to be cautious, pointing to the facts that the manuscript is written in flawless English on a stack of white foolscap papers in ballpoint pen as evidence.

 

[Deamiter]

I believe it alright. It just doesn't say what you think it says.

You greened the all in the Noah verse, but not in the Lot verse. Why is that? And if destroyed them all meant the whole globe was destroyed in the flood, why doesn't it mean the whole globe was destroyed by fire and brimstone? In fact Jesus never said the whole globe was flooded. Neither did Peter. 'The world of the ungodly' is talking about sinful human civilization, not the planet.

You noticed it too?

Look jeffweeder, you just showed why it's pure interpretation (not plain reading) to say that Jesus said the flood destroyed the whole earth. To say "and destroyed them all" in reference to lot is clearly just one city. In Jesus' words the extent of "all" is unclear.

You might also be interested to know that in Genesis, it says the flood destroyed the whole land. The word for land can mean either earth or a large area like kingdom, or the whole world. It's used those ways elsewhere in the Bible and translated based on context.

In the flood story, there is no context. You're welcome to INTERPRET it as "whole earth" but there's nothing to support one interpretation over another in this case.

 

[jeffweeder]

You greened the all in the Noah verse, but not in the Lot verse. Why is that?


And if destroyed them all meant the whole globe was destroyed in the flood, why doesn't it mean the whole globe was destroyed by fire and brimstone? In fact Jesus never said the whole globe was flooded. Neither did Peter. 'The world of the ungodly' is talking about sinful human civilization, not the planet.

in NOAH'S case, the focus is global.
in Sodom's case the focus is sodom.....and gommorah

so is this a literal story or not?

In fact Jesus never said the whole globe was flooded. Neither did Peter. '

Then what was Jesus refering to, if not the Scriptures?

He was explaining the uniqueness of his own coming- he said ,you cant miss it, its like lightening flashing from west and being seen in the east.

Then to give them an idea, he mentions the flood story and sodom story. Surely then he meant them as literal end time events, as this is his 2nd coming- Heaven and earth will pass away but MY WORDS WON'T.


http://www.christianforums.com/25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
http://www.christianforums.com/26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
http://www.christianforums.com/27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

http://www.christianforums.com/23 "But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.

CONTEXT



And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
http://www.christianforums.com/27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
http://www.christianforums.com/28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
http://www.christianforums.com/29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone[19][I.e. burning sulfur] from heaven and destroyed them all.
http://www.christianforums.com/30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

---"where is the promise of this coming"

Peter not only points out that the scoffers forget the days of noah, and that the earth was destroyed by water, but another day being the 2nd coming is reserved for fire- 2pet 3

Do not think that this partial, as God is patient not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance, before this day comes.

This is Jesus's point, in refering to these stories.

 

[Dannager]

Lots of theistic evolutionists seem to be forgetting that Jesus supports creation and a global flood, while they're embracing the words of men when it comes to science.

I've never once forgotten Jesus' words, but I thank God every day that we know better now.

Science changes...the Word never has...

Which is a pretty good reason to accept science over a book that continues to be factually incorrect year after year.

 

[laptoppop]

Wow - do you mean it the way this appears? You know "better" than Jesus? "Science" is more authoritative than Scripture?

 

[artybloke]

in NOAH'S case, the focus is global.
in Sodom's case the focus is sodom.....and gommorah

Why? Just because it suits you to say so?

Wow - do you mean it the way this appears? You know "better" than Jesus? "Science" is more authoritative than Scripture?

While Jesus was on earth, he was a human being. As a human being, he was as knowledgeable or ignorant of modern scientific models of the universe as your average bloke down the 1st century AD pub.

Anything else (the idea that Jesus was uniquely in possession of all the knowledge in the universe, for instance) threatens Jesus' humanity, which ultimately threatens the salvation of the whole world ("what is not assumed is not redeemed.")

 

[jeffweeder]

artichoke
Why? Just because it suits you to say so?

No, cause i read the story------isnt it obvious?

While Jesus was on earth, he was a human being. As a human being, he was as knowledgeable or ignorant of modern scientific models of the universe as your average bloke down the 1st century AD pub.

Anything else (the idea that Jesus was uniquely in possession of all the knowledge in the universe, for instance) threatens Jesus' humanity, which ultimately threatens the salvation of the whole world ("what is not assumed is not redeemed.")

As if God- I mean ,Jesus needed a "modern" scientific model.....
Do you know who Jesus was.?
Adam wasn't stupid, he named all the animals, and walked with God-in the cooool of the day.

He also said (Jesus) that God hadn't left him alone and that he was always with him- just like in Adams day- but Adam fell, and died. Jesus lives on and on and on

 

[laptoppop]

While Jesus was on earth, he was a human being. As a human being, he was as knowledgeable or ignorant of modern scientific models of the universe as your average bloke down the 1st century AD pub.

Anything else (the idea that Jesus was uniquely in possession of all the knowledge in the universe, for instance) threatens Jesus' humanity, which ultimately threatens the salvation of the whole world ("what is not assumed is not redeemed.")

While this sounds good -- its an extremely dangerous slippery slope that would remove all authority from Jesus' teaching. Jesus was fully man AND fully God. I don't pretend to understand how it all works, or exactly what divine attributes were laid aside in love, but I won't go so far as to say that Jesus' teaching was innacurate in any respect.

 

[Mallon]

No, cause i read the story------isnt it obvious?

I have to express my frustration, as this is an answer that has come up a lot lately. I've seen questions asked in all sincerity regarding a particular interpretation of Scripture, and the YEC response often comes back, "Isn't it obvious?"
In fact, no, it's not obvious, and such a response is not only less than helpful, it's just plain lazy. It shows an unwillingness to honestly think about the question or to challenge one's own fragile paradigm. I really hope everyone here would think twice before using the oft-repeated, never-helpful "It's obvious to me!" cop-out.
End rant.

 

[Saucy]

Factually incorrect year after year? According to who? Men? Science? Doesn't science continually change it's story? Isn't it incorrect year after year? I can't tell you how many times the age of the earth has changed and its all because they find fossils more and more complex in older strata, so they say...well, the evolutionary time table has just changed...again. This animal couldn't have evolved in this short of time...let's change it again! Please! Evolution is a blind theory taught as fact without any evidence for it.