If Jesus can guarantee Resurrection, but Evolution can't guarantee Jesus: stick with Jesus?

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Hi there,

So there is a bit of a bind here. I have tried to describe as exactly as I can what it is that vexes me about the whole Creation/Evolution thing: Jesus can guarantee Resurrection, but Evolution can't guarantee Jesus. There is a major problem here, right? I mean I am not ultimately going to wait for Evolution, unless it can guarantee Jesus. I need Jesus, without Jesus there is no "resurrection" and without "resurrection" there is no power to Word. No power to word, no point to Evolution.

Do you see the connections, there? This is about being honest about what God created with His Creating Jesus - it wasn't an accident, it wasn't less than was expected. It was about God caring about all of our being created, in no sense was it an adaptation, fundamentally - it was His Son! The love of God was poured out on us, because we believed we had nothing that we could answer the Love of God, with!! When Jesus heard and heeded the Word of God, He was putting into effect something far greater than Evolution. He was putting into effect, the ability to command the entire genomic family of Creation. It wasn't some Evolution, some Creation, it was completely "Creation". What happened on the cross, you could argue was partly Evolution - but not less completely "Creation", Creation was moreso (at the cross).

Everything that was moreso at the cross, was ours. Creation was moreso, Creation was ours. This is the beginning of Salvation, it has a point. We can now tell, when something has begun to Evolve, to a point, that either may or may not be granted, as part of the inheritance of the faithful of Jesus Christ. We can say "this I will accept, not that" "that I will accept and that and that again" - as Jesus said "Whatever you bind in Heaven will be bound on Earth, whatever you loose in Heaven will be loose on Earth". This is not some philosophy open to the wind! It is a command, which means we have very real decisions to make, about what we will accept and what we cannot.

There is promise in this, that if we do well, it will go well with us - that our children will inherit what is good, in us, that our people will not die out, that our leaders will have surpassing strength: all good things, for those that love the Lord. Working because His faith works in us! You can be blessed or you can be cursed: this is the creed of the faithful who do not admit blind leadership in an Evolution, that may never find its foundation, in anything that will justify it. Words can be abused, the argument here is that it simply has to be demonstrated that the word preempts something that is desired - if you can show me that, you have shown me everything (in principle).

I hope you are feeling constructive!
 

Mathetes66

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2019
1,031
867
Pacifc Northwest
✟90,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This is about being honest about what God created with His Creating Jesus.

Jesus was NOT created, did not evolve; He IS the Creator. He is eternal, God the Son. He existed before there was a beginning.

John 1:1-3,10,14,18 In the beginning was the Word & the Word was with God & the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made & without Him nothing was made that has been made. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.

The Word became flesh & tabernacled among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one & only Son from the Father, full of grace & truth. No one has ever seen God, but the one & only Son, who is Himself God & is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

Colossians 1:15,16 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven & on earth, visible & invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him & for Him.

Heb 1:1-3 On many past occasions & in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things & through whom He made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory & the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word.

When Jesus heard and heeded the Word of God, He was putting into effect something far greater than Evolution.

Jesus IS the incarnated Word of God according to Holy Scripture, as shown above & here.

Revelation 19:13,14 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood & His name is called The Word of God. The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white & pure, follow Him on white horses.

I John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word & the Holy Spirit & these three are one.

Jesus can guarantee Resurrection, but Evolution can't guarantee Jesus. There is a major problem here, right?

Yes. I agree.
 
Upvote 0

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,081
8,285
Frankston
Visit site
✟727,630.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Hi there,

So there is a bit of a bind here. I have tried to describe as exactly as I can what it is that vexes me about the whole Creation/Evolution thing: Jesus can guarantee Resurrection, but Evolution can't guarantee Jesus. There is a major problem here, right? I mean I am not ultimately going to wait for Evolution, unless it can guarantee Jesus. I need Jesus, without Jesus there is no "resurrection" and without "resurrection" there is no power to Word. No power to word, no point to Evolution.

Do you see the connections, there? This is about being honest about what God created with His Creating Jesus - it wasn't an accident, it wasn't less than was expected. It was about God caring about all of our being created, in no sense was it an adaptation, fundamentally - it was His Son! The love of God was poured out on us, because we believed we had nothing that we could answer the Love of God, with!! When Jesus heard and heeded the Word of God, He was putting into effect something far greater than Evolution. He was putting into effect, the ability to command the entire genomic family of Creation. It wasn't some Evolution, some Creation, it was completely "Creation". What happened on the cross, you could argue was partly Evolution - but not less completely "Creation", Creation was moreso (at the cross).

Everything that was moreso at the cross, was ours. Creation was moreso, Creation was ours. This is the beginning of Salvation, it has a point. We can now tell, when something has begun to Evolve, to a point, that either may or may not be granted, as part of the inheritance of the faithful of Jesus Christ. We can say "this I will accept, not that" "that I will accept and that and that again" - as Jesus said "Whatever you bind in Heaven will be bound on Earth, whatever you loose in Heaven will be loose on Earth". This is not some philosophy open to the wind! It is a command, which means we have very real decisions to make, about what we will accept and what we cannot.

There is promise in this, that if we do well, it will go well with us - that our children will inherit what is good, in us, that our people will not die out, that our leaders will have surpassing strength: all good things, for those that love the Lord. Working because His faith works in us! You can be blessed or you can be cursed: this is the creed of the faithful who do not admit blind leadership in an Evolution, that may never find its foundation, in anything that will justify it. Words can be abused, the argument here is that it simply has to be demonstrated that the word preempts something that is desired - if you can show me that, you have shown me everything (in principle).

I hope you are feeling constructive!
As the old hymn says, "begotten, not created". Evolution is nonsense. Lord Jesus created everything, then at the right time, put on human form and came to live with mankind. The cross is the means to the new creation - the old passes away with Christ as He dies and the new comes in as Christ rises from the dead. No room for evolution there.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am not ultimately going to wait for Evolution, unless it can guarantee Jesus.
Evolution does guarantee Jesus. BOTH evolution and the Bible are based on common ancestor. In this case Adam & Eve are the matriarch and patriarch of Jesus. This is actually more important then people realize. The Lord God is actually talking to the serpent when He said: "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." (Genesis 3:15) "But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many!" (Romans 5:14)

Not only man but women are saved: "But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety." (1Timothy2:5) So sin passed to all women though Eve but through her descendant: Jesus, the problem was resolved.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Evolution is nonsense. Lord Jesus created everything
Jesus used evolution to create. Science tells us how Jesus did what He did. Of course science has a long way to go before they can catch up with the Bible, but they are getting there.
 
Upvote 0

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,081
8,285
Frankston
Visit site
✟727,630.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Jesus used evolution to create. Science tells us how Jesus did what He did. Of course science has a long way to go before they can catch up with the Bible, but they are getting there.
How can you possibly assert that? If you mean adaptation within a species, then I would agree. But the idea of Lord Jesus sprinkling around a little Evo dust to get things going is unbiblical. It means that man is not made in the image of God, the book of Job is full of errors and man is not a sinner. God declares that He created the world and its flora and fauna. I'm personally not big on calling God a liar.
 
Upvote 0

Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
Mar 2, 2018
6,297
5,539
NYC
✟151,950.00
Country
United States
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Evolution is an observed fact . Creation is an idea and as a scientific hypothesis has proved to be unanswerable. You can’t compare them . I’ve noticed that a lot of scientifically illiterate Christians tend to equate Confirmed scientific Facts with atheism . Personally I think that’s silly and ignorant.
 
Upvote 0

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,081
8,285
Frankston
Visit site
✟727,630.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Evolution is an observed fact . Creation is an idea and as a scientific hypothesis has proved to be unanswerable. You can’t compare them . I’ve noticed that a lot of scientifically illiterate Christians tend to equate Confirmed scientific Facts with atheism . Personally I think that’s silly and ignorant.
Proof? Were you there when evolution was happening? It's certainly not happening now. Observable fact? No one can demonstrate evolution is happening now. What has God got to say about it? Or does that not matter? God says that He created all things. Are you calling Him a liar?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums