If I were God

[Josephus]

Ray K asked, "My question to you (or any other Christian) is this, "If you were God, what would you have done differently?"

If I were God?

Nothing.

The issues you bring up seem quite limited in their perspective. If one wishes to start being like God, I would say they must learn to think like him, learn to see like he sees, and learn to plan like he plans.

In short, there are holes in any presumption; but it takes wisdom to find them.

For example: people wonder how allowing suffering in the world to continue, is compatible with a loving God.

Well, the hole here is obvious: it isn't compatible with a loving God. Hence, suffering will end.

And as wisdom demands evidence:
This is supported by the prophecies in the bible that mention the world as we know it in it's suffering, and hate, and destruction, and sin ...will in fact end.

So there really is no objection from the bigger perspective in this case: God's. And his persective has him resolving this serious issue in a rather forceful, very omnipotent way.

Every answer in pursuit of understanding the world we live in, and our conceptions of what a perfect God of love would be like, are just as simply derived, though some processes can take several steps, if one is able to take all variables into account. Hence, it is my belief that if one really thinks long, and hard, that the answer they seek is as simple as the question they asked - and the answer is as "right" as it is truth: even though from other perspectives what is "right" may be entirely contradictory to what one thinks 'should' or 'should not' happen.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Josephus
Ray K asked, "My question to you (or any other Christian) is this, "If you were God, what would you have done differently?"

If I were God?

Nothing.

Wow. I am disappointed. You claim that it takes "wisdom" to see through holes in my presumptions, but all you have done is appeal to the unknowable mysteries of God's omniscience and the "evidence" (i.e faith in) a future judgement.

I still consider that to be an extremely pessimistic view of the world. It implies that things now are as good as they can be expected, when in reality everyone can quickly think of things that could be better. Why do we need a future judgement to make things right with the world?

Would the would be worse off if just one less innocent died on September 11th? Would the world be worse off if just one more woman changed her mind and decided to NOT have an abortion? I don't think so.

I think that Christians are forced to the conclusion "I would do nothing different" because that is the logical conclusion of the standard Christian assertion that "God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and loves each of us". Are we that uncomfortable with confronting theology that we are willing to defend the absurd position that our world could not be any better?

For if you are willing to say "I would do this differently..." then, no matter how small or trivial that change is, you have acknowledged that the world is NOT perfect and are faced with the conundrum of why would a perfect God construct an imperfect creation?

But if you answer "I would do nothing different", then you are implying that the world is as good as it can be. How horrible! All of the evil acts and atrocities that every good man has condemned throughout history -- murder, rape, torture, genocide, slavery -- have now suddenly become necessary parts of this "best of all possible" worlds.

Why strive? Why try to enlighten? Why pray for change? After all, the world can't get any better. In fact, it is a standard Christian complaint that the world is getting worse!

As some of you may know, Liebniz wrestled with the paradox of an imperfect world and was forced to the same conclusions as most Christians. God is perfect, so who are we to presume to know better? Therefore our world, while not perfect, must be the best of all possible worlds. And with that conclusion, Liebniz's argument was systematically dismantled and deservedly mocked by Voltaire.

We do not live in the best of all possible worlds. Watch the news tonight and try to keep repeating that to yourself.

 

[Catchup]

Ray K asked, "My question to you (or any other Christian) is this, "If you were God, what would you have done differently?"

I would have been able to see ahead to know what a mess man would make of everything. I would have stopped creating after the animals. So that Earth would have been my beautiful petting zoo.

LOVE

 

[Josephus]

But we're not God's pets. We're his family.

 

[Josephus]

Ray K, the world can always be better. Ever since God made this universe our dominion and placed in our charge, he's left it to us to keep it perfect. Since it's not perfect, our job now is to make it perfect. But we can't do that - HA! So God, in his loving way, is gonna fix it some day. There is nothing contradictory in any of that, or cop-outish. Do you agree?

 

[Catchup]

But we're not God's pets. We're his family.

Some Family???

God knew we would fall on our face. He knew that he would have to sacrifice Jesus for us. God also knew that he would destroy the world...first by flood and then by fire. For what purpose???

He would have been more pleased with the zoo.

He could have made us all like Jesus...why didn't he?

LOVE

 

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Josephus
Ray K, the world can always be better. Ever since God made this universe our dominion and placed in our charge, he's left it to us to keep it perfect. Since it's not perfect, our job now is to make it perfect. But we can't do that - HA! So God, in his loving way, is gonna fix it some day. There is nothing contradictory in any of that, or cop-outish. Do you agree?

Fair enough.

However, you have just said that the world is not perfect, and it is our job to make it perfect. That strongly implies that there is something in the world that you would change. To me, this is in conflict with your first answer.

So my original question still stands: if you were God, would you not want to change these imperfections?


However, I am heartened that you agree that we live in an imperfect world.

 

[Josephus]

Let's go backwards and answer:

"He could have made us all like Jesus...why didn't he?"

He did. Well, he made our father, Adam, like Jesus. "In his image God created them." Except Adam made a choice to sin before he had kids.


"God knew we would fall on our face. He knew that he would have to sacrifice Jesus for us. God also knew that he would destroy the world...first by flood and then by fire. For what purpose???"

If you could create a true Artificial Intelligence the first time, and it goes stupid, what lengths would you go to in making them smart again? Would one who is true LOVE really start over, or would LOVE find a way to work it out?

The design of Free Will is inherant in our creation. It comes with a risk. Since the only true choice we really have is the only other choice than God: ourselves, the probability we could choose ourselves over God is a potential that will never go away. Obviously God figures it is more loving to retain our free will, even if we make mistakes, so that He can prove to us how me He loves us. And that is what He did when He sent Jesus to die for us.

 

[Josephus]

"So my original question still stands: if you were God, would you not want to change these imperfections?"

Change imperfection to perfections, yes; create imperfections, no; allow imperfections to happen, yes - if I valued free will for some purpose greater than the imperfection that a Free Will would be allowed to choose.

 

[Catchup]

He did. Well, he made our father, Adam, like Jesus. "In his image God created them." Except Adam made a choice to sin before he had kids.

You really believe that Adam was the equivalent to Jesus?
I see Adam as the original idiot.

LOVE

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

"I see Adam as the original idiot."

Hmm I thought that would be Satan since he rejected God before Adam did....

 

[Catchup]

Naw... Satan was the original bad dude.

Adam was not bad. He was not deliberately rejecting God. He was just trying to get along with his woman.

LOVE

 

[Josephus]

The difference between Jesus and Adam is that Jesus is God Himself.

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by Josephus
The difference between Jesus and Adam is that Jesus is God Himself.

The Son is God, right?

Luke 3:38
the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

 

[LouisBooth]

*mod hat on* neo, this is a place to ask questions. If you have one post it, if not then don't post Thanks. *mod hat off*

 

[Josephus]

Those that love him, we're all sons and daughters of the Most High - it doesn't mean we're God. So no, "a" son of God is not God, but THE Son of God is God.

 

[GL2814]

We could never comprehend the idea of being God. He is well beyond our thinking.

 

[Dyrwen]

If I were God eh? I'd make sure to have public appearances daily in the skys, as well as various other measures to assure those around the world knew I existed without a doubt.

I'd prefer everyone to understand God here, rather than just go "Oh, he's SOooooo mysterious. We'll NEVER know about God." Heck, I'd have a talk show on once a week to answer the common questions people have.

Sort of a seeking enlightenment thing. Good way to get the message out there and help some folks too.

 

[Rafael]

If I were God eh? I'd make sure to have public appearances daily in the skys, as well as various other measures to assure those around the world knew I existed without a doubt.

I'd prefer everyone to understand God here, rather than just go "Oh, he's SOooooo mysterious. We'll NEVER know about God." Heck, I'd have a talk show on once a week to answer the common questions people have.

Sort of a seeking enlightenment thing. Good way to get the message out there and help some folks too.

Such imaginations are just that - imagination, since man can't make or create one cell of life. All life created goes back to the one that gave it and is the genesis of it. The creature can only imagine such powers, and with no regard or thankfulness for what has been given, such imaginations become arrogant and evil - supposing in pride they themselves are God. The rules of creation are known by the Creator. The differences between good and evil are as plain as black and white - this contrast actually making it possible to know who God is. Without the dark, no one would know the light, but light dispels darkness the same as turning on a light makes it gone. For now this darkness and evil is suffered, but only for a time. Eventually, in eternity, the light will come from God and there will be no night. He has displayed His love, that while we were dead in our sins, He came and gave His life for ours. Why the trial? Why couldn't it begin with a talk show on Jay Leno? Well it obviously didn't, and to ask such things are just a sign of a disrespect, arrogance, and in this case asked only to bring down the name of God, His love, and provision.

 

[Dyrwen]

I understand it's just imagination. The question was basically a hypothetical situation as it is.

Without imagination, one has no ability to perceive anything as real, and even your god would cease to be.

The rest of your preach fit explaining the ways of God, even though we supposedly don't understand God, was something less appealing and of less importance.