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If I Were an Atheist

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jimmyjimmy

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I wouldn't waste one single solitary second of my life on CF because very very soon, I'll be "six feet under", so I would be eating, drinking, and making merry rather than arguing with people who I believe are deluded.

Question to all agnostics and atheists: Why are you wasting precious minutes of your life on Christian Forums?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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I wouldn't waste one single solitary second of my life on CF because very very soon, I'll be "six feet under", so I would be eating, drinking, and making merry rather than arguing with people who I believe are deluded.

Question to all agnostics and atheists: Why are you wasting precious minutes of your life on Christian Forums?
This is a FAQ. Here is my answer:
I was a Christian when I originally joined this site in July 2007. Here are some of my earliest posts (1, 2, 3, 4, 5). Even though I am no longer a Christian I still post here because the conversation is hardly ever dull.
 
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Freodin

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I wouldn't waste one single solitary second of my life on CF because very very soon, I'll be "six feet under", so I would be eating, drinking, and making merry rather than arguing with people who I believe are deluded.

Question to all agnostics and atheists: Why are you wasting precious minutes of your life on Christian Forums?
Because there are people out there - they might be all sorts of people, some of them might even call themselves 'thatbrian' or so - who think that there are only a very few things possible to do in life.
They think that it is all eating, drinking, making merry... and worshipping their deity. So if people are not worshipping, all that is left is... see previous list.

The more unpleasant kind of these people also have a very strange view of "making merry"... and seriously ask unbelievers why they aren't enjoying their life by raping, killing and stealing. They would do just that, if not for being busy worshipping.

I still have a tiny sliver of hope that these people might understand that people who do not worship their deity are human beings just like them, not some kind of eating and excrementing party machines, or psychopathic killer-rapists that they have to keep under control.

I have to admit though that this sliver of hope gets tinier and tinier with almost every "christian" post I read here.
 
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essentialsaltes

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...rather than arguing with people who I believe are deluded.

Question to all agnostics and atheists: Why are you wasting precious minutes of your life on Christian Forums?

Because I want to help people suffering from various delusions. Once the scales fall from their eyes, they may see clearly.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Do you agree with Davian that what we believe is not a conscious choice?

More or less. And that is the point. People who are shown evidence and reasoning may come to ineluctable conclusions that they would not choose for themselves.

One does not (or should not) choose to believe that all odd square integers have a remainder of 1 when divided by 8. But when shown the reasoning and evidence, any mind that can understand the argument must acquiesce to the truth.
 
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anonymous person

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More or less. And that is the point. People who are shown evidence and reasoning may come to ineluctable conclusions that they would not choose for themselves.

One does not (or should not) choose to believe that all odd square integers have a remainder of 1 when divided by 8. But when shown the reasoning and evidence, any mind that can understand the argument must acquiesce to the truth.

You said more or less, but then say we do choose what we believe.

Which is it?
 
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essentialsaltes

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You said more or less, but then say we do choose what we believe.

Which is it?

No, I said "One does not ... choose to believe that all odd square integers..."

Some oddballs may say they can choose to believe that the moon is made of green cheese, but I doubt their sincerity.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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More than simply spending time on CF, what I mean is why bother arguing against Christianity? Why engage in atheist apologetics? If, as a Christian, I am wrong and there is no creator; life is a cosmic accident; there is no objective basis for morality; when I take my last breath, I'll cease to exist. Who cares? Why try to "save me" from my "error"? If I'm wrong my life is just as meaningless as yours is. In other words, if you were to "convert" me to atheism, you'd have wasted your time. You've converted me to nothingness.

Even if you aren't trying to win me to your viewpoint, your time could be better spent. Time is a commodity that you can't buy more of.

A Christian spends time on apologetics because he knows that people are immortal. We engage in apologetics in order to possibly spare some from rejecting the only source of life there is; therefore our time is (potentially) not wasted here. My assertion is that your time is wasted here.

I suppose that you could argue that people with beliefs in Christ are not useful members of society, but that would imply that there is an objective purpose for society in the first place. It would also ignore the countless contributions that Christians have made to higher education, hospitals. . .

I suppose you could also argue that my life would be more meaningful or happy without trust in Christ. But, a life that is a cosmic accident headed full-speed for a permanent grave is hopeless, not happy, as all actions would lack meaning, and the ability do any objective good would be stripped away from me. An evil act would be no different than a kind act, because I will die; those I help or harm will die, and eventually the sun will die, taking whatever life that might remain with it. This worldview certainly isn't going to put a smile on my face or a spring in my step!

This is a apologetics forum. Christians defend their positions, so turnabout is fair play. Without intentionally being rude, it seems to me that an atheist must invent purpose in order not to think out the implications of his worldview. He has to essentially lie to himself just to get out of bed in the morning and face the meaninglessness of his existence, and the irredeemable pain and suffering all around him.

As an atheist, are you intellectually honest enough - are you brave enough to admit that your existence (holding to your worldview) is meaningless?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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More than simply spending time on CF, what I mean is why bother arguing against Christianity?
There are numerous reasons; one being that Christianity (and religion generally) has an influence on political decisions.
Why engage in atheist apologetics?
What's that?
If, as a Christian, I am wrong and there is no creator; life is a cosmic accident; there is no objective basis for morality; when I take my last breath, I'll cease to exist.
Loaded question; assumes points not yet established.
Who cares? Why try to "save me" from my "error"?
Because we all share a common experience known as "the human condition."
If I'm wrong my life is just as meaningless as yours is.
I don't consider my life meaningless.
In other words, if you were to "convert" me to atheism, you'd have wasted your time. You've converted me to nothingness.
Atheism is not equivalent to nihilism.
A Christian spends time on apologetics because he knows that people are immortal.
He knows this on the basis of what?
We engage in apologetics in order to possibly spare some from rejecting the only source of life there is; therefore our time is (potentially) not wasted here. My assertion is that your time is wasted here.
How many have you actually converted with apologetics on CF? My guess is that the number is close to 0. So whose wasting their time?
I suppose that you could argue that people with beliefs in Christ are not useful members of society, but that would imply that there is an objective purpose for society in the first place. It would also ignore the countless contributions that Christians have made to higher education, hospitals. . .
No one is arguing that Christians are not useful members of society, so the point is moot.
I suppose you could also argue that my life would be more meaningful or happy without trust in Christ. But, a life that is a cosmic accident headed full-speed for a permanent grave is hopeless, not happy, as all actions would lack meaning,
In your worldview, something either has theological significance or else it has no significance at all. The hopelessness - the nihilism - comes from your worldview.
This is a apologetics forum. Christians defend their positions, so turnabout is fair play. Without intentionally being rude, it seems to me that an atheist must invent purpose in order not to think out the implications of his worldview.
Again, you are talking about your worldview, which you are projecting onto us.
He has to essentially lie to himself just to get out of bed in the morning and face the meaninglessness of his existence, and the irredeemable pain and suffering all around him.
But I don't consider my existence meaningless. That's how you think I should feel given your worldview. But I don't feel that way because I don't share your worldview.
As an atheist, are you intellectually honest enough - are you brave enough to admit that your existence (holding to your worldview) is meaningless?
How would that be intellectually honest? According to your worldview, life is meaningless without the divine. Again, that's your worldview. I don't subscribe to such a nihilistic worldview.
 
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anonymous person

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No, I said "One does not ... choose to believe that all odd square integers..."

Some oddballs may say they can choose to believe that the moon is made of green cheese, but I doubt their sincerity.

Oh ok ok. That was my fault. The parentheses messed me up heheheh. ;)

So you said you want to help certain people suffering from certain beliefs, i.e. people who suffer from beliefs they have not consciously chosen to believe.

Is that about right?
 
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jimmyjimmy

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There are numerous reasons; one being that Christianity (and religion generally) has an influence on political decisions.

What's that?

Loaded question; assumes points not yet established.

Because we all share a common experience known as "the human condition."

I don't consider my life meaningless.

Atheism is not equivalent to nihilism.

He knows this on the basis of what?

How many have you actually converted with apologetics on CF? My guess is that the number is close to 0. So whose wasting their time?

No one is arguing that Christians are not useful members of society, so the point is moot.

In your worldview, something either has theological significance or else it has no significance at all. The hopelessness - the nihilism - comes from your worldview.

Again, you are talking about your worldview, which you are projecting onto us.

But I don't consider my existence meaningless. That's how you think I should feel given your worldview. But I don't feel that way because I don't share your worldview.

How would that be intellectually honest? According to your worldview, life is meaningless without the divine. Again, that's your worldview. I don't subscribe to such a nihilistic worldview.

You can't face the implications, in other words.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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The implications of your nihilistic worldview, which I don't subscribe to?

You're playing games and skirting the issue. I had hoped to engage with some intellectually honest folks so, I'll pass on the silliness.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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You're playing games and skirting the issue. I had hoped to engage with some intellectually honest folks so, I'll pass on the silliness.
No, you're playing games. According to your worldview, life is meaningless without the divine. I already told you: I don't subscribe to your worldview.
 
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