If homosexuality could be prevented...

[français]

Well, let me step in and give my two cents, as a homosexual.

I can say first hand that I did not choose to be gay. In fact, I spent years during my teens trying to combat it. Consulting with Priests, trying to like females, etc. But, nothing worked.

And, I can remember even as a child having little boy crushes.

But, I'm still not sure about this whole concept that your sexuality might be like "pre-programmed", even at the age of being a fetus. The reason I say this, is because if we look statistically, a significantly larger number of males who were molested as a child, or had bad relationships with their fathers, have a higher chance of being gay. And of course no one would dare say a person is "pre programmed" in their fetus to be a victim of molestation!

My belief(and a prominent belief among many scientists) is that you don't choose your sexuality, but that it is something that develops during your puberty years, sprouting from thousands of different genes. That is the explanation long story short. And, sometimes someone's mental perception of things as a child could have an impact on the way these genes develop(which explains why victims of molestation have a higher chance of being gay.) Nevertheless, one still doesn't choose to be gay, nor can these desires be reversed.

I think that if homosexual acts were sinful, then people who have same sex desires are given a blessing in disguise. They always say that God will give people tests and trials in life. This would be a very hard test. And, they always say, the harder it is, the greater the reward. So, if someone is gay, then I would think that a Christian or Jew or Muslim should encourage celibacy, not call them an instant sinner! Because, they would be going through a hard test and they need help and support and motivation, not condemnation. I wish Christians and Jews and Muslims would see it this way instead of holding this preposterous view that you choose to be gay.

Of course, I personally don't see it that way; I think that if someone is gay, they should be able to act upon it just as any heterosexual couple should. Love is one of the greatest feelings, especially in a relationship sense, and just because someone is gay doesn't mean they should be restricted from loving and all. And I don't hold any burden of a religious doctrine on my back, and so I am gay and have a boyfriend(who is actually my fianc&#233 and I plan on happily spending the rest of my life with him

 

[Montalban]

Well, let me step in and give my two cents, as a homosexual.

Français, do you have to act on your homosexuality? If you see a guy do you immediately need to have sex with them? There must be a degree of 'choice'... this isn't to say that you chose to be homosexual in the first place (we all have our cross to bear).

 

[humblemuslim]

I am not one to promote homosexuality, as promotion of it is wrong.

But I am also not one to judge those who are homosexual, that too is wrong.

I do not believe this one thing is enough for someone to be sent to hell. Verses on the subject do not support it. But I have not seen anything that says this one lifelong deed is a guaranteed ticket to hell.

Also oddly enough I do not see as many people so vigorously arguing against masturbation. Sure many religious people feel this is wrong too, but still do it the next day. How is this different?

But just because someone is inclined to do something does not make it right.

As a side note, I always found it strange that Christians tell people Jesus died for our sins, then some turn around and say you either are not a Christian or you are going to hell because of a sin you are committing. The entire concept behind Christianity is no one can live a life without sinning and they require something to bridge the gap to heaven. Yet when someone does as is believed to be their very nature they are condemned? If Christians really believe Jesus has died for their sins, leave the homosexual Christians alone.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

...while the fetus was still developing, would it be morally permissible for mothers to do so?

So has it been proven that homosexuality is purely genetic, in other words scientific?

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I wish Christians and Jews and Muslims would see it this way instead of holding this preposterous view that you choose to be gay.

I don't think you are genetically gay, do you have hospital report that you are? If that was so, scientifically it could be fixed. Your hormones are jacked up? Maybe that is the case, but that should be fixable too. There are so many that choose to be gay so that preposterous view is not unfounded.

Have you ever heard about Fr. Seraphim Rose?

Seraphim Rose, born Eugene Dennis Rose (August 13, 1934 - September 2, 1982), was a hieromonk (also called priest-monk) of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia in the United States, whose writings have helped spread Orthodox Christianity throughout modern America and the West. They have also been widely read in Russia. Although not formally canonized as of 2008, he is venerated by some Orthodox Christians as a saint in iconography, liturgy, and prayer.

In the summer of 1955, while attending Watts' academy, Rose met Jon Gregerson, a Californian of Finnish extraction, who at the time was a practicing Russian Orthodox Christian. It was through Gregerson that Rose came into his initial contact with the Orthodox faith. This culminated in Eugene's decision to enter the Church through chrismation in 1962. In 1956 Eugene came out as a homosexual to a close friend from college, after his mother discovered letters between her son and Walter Pomeroy, Rose's friend from high school. Rose ceased homosexual activity as he accepted Orthodoxy, eventually ending his relationship with Gregerson.

Français, do you have to act on your homosexuality? If you see a guy do you immediately need to have sex with them? There must be a degree of 'choice'... this isn't to say that you chose to be homosexual in the first place (we all have our cross to bear).

 

[français]

Français, do you have to act on your homosexuality? If you see a guy do you immediately need to have sex with them? There must be a degree of 'choice'... this isn't to say that you chose to be homosexual in the first place (we all have our cross to bear).

I agree; of course there is a level of choice. But, the choice is all in the actions, not in the desires.

I don't think you are genetically gay, do you have hospital report that you are? If that was so, scientifically it could be fixed. Your hormones are jacked up? Maybe that is the case, but that should be fixable too. There are so many that choose to be gay so that preposterous view is not unfounded.

Have you ever heard about Fr. Seraphim Rose?

Seraphim Rose, born Eugene Dennis Rose (August 13, 1934 - September 2, 1982), was a hieromonk (also called priest-monk) of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia in the United States, whose writings have helped spread Orthodox Christianity throughout modern America and the West. They have also been widely read in Russia. Although not formally canonized as of 2008, he is venerated by some Orthodox Christians as a saint in iconography, liturgy, and prayer.

In the summer of 1955, while attending Watts' academy, Rose met Jon Gregerson, a Californian of Finnish extraction, who at the time was a practicing Russian Orthodox Christian. It was through Gregerson that Rose came into his initial contact with the Orthodox faith. This culminated in Eugene's decision to enter the Church through chrismation in 1962. In 1956 Eugene came out as a homosexual to a close friend from college, after his mother discovered letters between her son and Walter Pomeroy, Rose's friend from high school. Rose ceased homosexual activity as he accepted Orthodoxy, eventually ending his relationship with Gregerson.

I haven't heard of that Priest, but I was a member of an Eastern Orthodox forum and they once were speaking of a Priest who had same sex desires. He chose to live a celibate life. I can try and find the link, as I am still a member of that place though it has been years.

I don't think someone chooses to be gay. And, if someone claims they were once gay and then turned straight, I think they are either looking for attention, or are bisexual. That's just my view.

And no, I don't have hospital records; because the genes I am speaking about are not easily able to be researched. Also, I have never been a fan of chocolate; could I go to the hospital and they can set my body up to where I enjoy chocolate? Come on now.

Listen, your religion is clear that homosexual acts are sinful. And, that's fine. If your religion views that, then it is what it is. However, it is the acts that are sinful, not the desires in and of themselves. Like Montalban said, people have their crosses to bear. People are tested. I just wish people didn't sometimes tell me "I need to get you hooked up with a fine looking lady" or once someone even told me "you need to start dating an older woman, and she will turn you straight." These are silly statements. Instead, they(the people who view homosexual acts as sinful) should be saying "well stay celibate and don't act upon your desires" and not the crazy scenarios I have mentioned.

 

[Mythunderstood]

I don't think you are genetically gay, do you have hospital report that you are? If that was so, scientifically it could be fixed. Your hormones are jacked up? Maybe that is the case, but that should be fixable too. There are so many that choose to be gay so that preposterous view is not unfounded.

Have you ever heard about Fr. Seraphim Rose?

Seraphim Rose, born Eugene Dennis Rose (August 13, 1934 - September 2, 1982), was a hieromonk (also called priest-monk) of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia in the United States, whose writings have helped spread Orthodox Christianity throughout modern America and the West. They have also been widely read in Russia. Although not formally canonized as of 2008, he is venerated by some Orthodox Christians as a saint in iconography, liturgy, and prayer.

In the summer of 1955, while attending Watts' academy, Rose met Jon Gregerson, a Californian of Finnish extraction, who at the time was a practicing Russian Orthodox Christian. It was through Gregerson that Rose came into his initial contact with the Orthodox faith. This culminated in Eugene's decision to enter the Church through chrismation in 1962. In 1956 Eugene came out as a homosexual to a close friend from college, after his mother discovered letters between her son and Walter Pomeroy, Rose's friend from high school. Rose ceased homosexual activity as he accepted Orthodoxy, eventually ending his relationship with Gregerson.

Being celibate does not mean that you changed your sexuality. He was still a homosexual.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I haven't heard of that Priest, but I was a member of an Eastern Orthodox forum and they once were speaking of a Priest who had same sex desires. He chose to live a celibate life. I can try and find the link, as I am still a member of that place though it has been years.

That is him, or another, it doesn't matter, do you see the gist of the story?

I don't think someone chooses to be gay. And, if someone claims they were once gay and then turned straight, I think they are either looking for attention, or are bisexual. That's just my view.

I had a friend from my Pentecostal years who once told me he was molested and abused as a child, that is why he approached men and had homosexual tendencies. He was married, divorced and had kids. This is one example. Attention or bisexuality, these are also possible.

And no, I don't have hospital records; because the genes I am speaking about are not easily able to be researched. Also, I have never been a fan of chocolate; could I go to the hospital and they can set my body up to where I enjoy chocolate? Come on now.

Enjoying chocolate has something to do with your genes and DNA make-up now? It is simple, if it is not by choice, it is by nature! Your nature is a physical nature which can be examined by science. Hormones, genes you name it. But that has nothing to do with chocolate. My wife doesn't like greens, due to its texture. I don't like dark chocolate because of its taste. This has nothing to do with genes or hormones.

Listen,...

Wow wow slow down. I can only read.

Your religion is clear that homosexual acts are sinful. And, that's fine. If your religion views that, then it is what it is. However, it is the acts that are sinful, not the desires in and of themselves. Like Montalban said, people have their crosses to bear. People are tested. I just wish people didn't sometimes tell me "I need to get you hooked up with a fine looking lady" or once someone even told me "you need to start dating an older woman, and she will turn you straight." These are silly statements. Instead, they(the people who view homosexual acts as sinful) should be saying "well stay celibate and don't act upon your desires" and not the crazy scenarios I have mentioned.

That is ignorance, correct them properly.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Being celibate does not mean that you changed your sexuality. He was still a homosexual.

Where does the article say he changed his sexuality? Please...

 

[Mythunderstood]

Where does the article say he changed his sexuality? Please...

That is the point. He did not change his sexuality. He could not "choose" to be straight. He simply stopped having sex. What were you trying to infer when you said the following:

"I don't think you are genetically gay, do you have hospital report that you are? If that was so, scientifically it could be fixed. Your hormones are jacked up? Maybe that is the case, but that should be fixable too. There are so many that choose to be gay so that preposterous view is not unfounded.

Have you ever heard about Fr. Seraphim Rose?"

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

That is the point. He did not change his sexuality. He could not "choose" to be straight. He simply stopped having sex. What were you trying to infer when you said the following:

So every gay is gay for the same reason right? And you hold proof of it. Ok, I thought so. This was an example that applied to the poster. Carry on.

 

[humblemuslim]

The identical twin evidence:

Essentially all conservative Christian authors who have written about homosexuality maintain that sexual orientation is not determined by one's genes. Most treat it as an abnormal, unnatural, chosen, and changeable habit or addiction. Religious conservatives often point to studies of identical twins who were separated at birth and raised independently. If one is gay, then the other twin is found to be gay only about 55% of the time. They reason that: since identical twins have the same genetic structure, then if homosexual orientation were determined by genes, 100% of the other twins would be gay. Thus they conclude that homosexual orientation is not genetically caused.
Many gays and lesbians believe that their orientation is caused by their genes; it is normal, natural, unchosen and unchangeable. With the exception of one small religious association of therapists, the vast majority of human sexuality researchers and mental health therapists accept that the root cause of homosexual orientation is genetic.
The data seems to show that a small minority of individuals -- perhaps 10% -- have a "gay gene" or sequence of "gay genes." However, the gene is only expressed in perhaps 55% of those individuals, as a result of some unknown factor in the environment. In the remainder, it remains dormant and the person matures as a heterosexual.

Source - What causes sexual orientation?

 

[Montalban]

That is the point. He did not change his sexuality. He could not "choose" to be straight. He simply stopped having sex. What were you trying to infer when you said the following:

​

What is clear by the article is that he had a choice in how he lived his life.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

What is clear by the article is that he had a choice in how he lived his life.

Thank you.

 

[Montalban]

I wonder if people have to act on all their urges?

 

[Wicked Willow]

I wonder if people have to act on all their urges?

Well, people can deny even their most basic and essential needs, even to the point of death. (Just think of hunger strikes.) The question is whether doing such would result in a better life.
Of course, a certain degree of impulse control is a requirement for a functional society, but to deny yourself the universal human need for love and sexuality just because a specific religion or culture doesn't like your gender preference strikes me as pretty sad.
We're not talking about people acting on all their urges (you'll find few heterosexuals outside of jail who freely indulge all of them, too). We're talking about people choosing (potentially permanent) partners they feel sexually and romantically drawn to.

 

[Montalban]

Well, people can deny even their most basic and essential needs, even to the point of death. (Just think of hunger strikes.) The question is whether doing such would result in a better life.

I'm not sure who starves themsevles to death for a better life

 

[Wicked Willow]

I'm not sure who starves themsevles to death for a better life

Witty, are we?

 

[Montalban]

Witty, are we?

With what you said about people being drawn into relationships then we get into the applications of rules, regarding what constitutes a loving relationship.

We (that is, others and I) had recently a debate on this very issue.

Certain people put forward a rule (for no reason) that a 'loving relationship' had to involve consent. I then said that they should be okay with bestiality and necrophillia then because consent is something you don't even have to worry about.

Then people brought in side-rules (for no apparent reason) rejecting these other activities. All I saw was a highly selective application of 'rules' to one situation, without applying them to others.

That's the problem with people think that morals are subjective.