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If God Really Exist Then Why....?

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clivwill

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As different religions preach about which God is the right God and which bible is the right bible, there are human beings that suffer each and everyday and has never seen nor heard the voice of any God. My question to chrstians are linked below....If God Really exist then why..........?

If God Really Exist Then Why....
 

Albion

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As different religions preach about which God is the right God and which bible is the right bible, there are human beings that suffer each and everyday and has never seen nor heard the voice of any God. My question to chrstians are linked below....If God Really exist then why..........?

If God Really Exist Then Why....

This question has been asked forever, Clive, and the answer is always the same. God did not want to make a race of robots. He already had legions of angels to do his bidding. They were programmed to do it.

He allowed Adam and Even to decide on their own actions. They did wrong and we do wrong. Of course, God could prevent that from happening, but then he would be preventing us from choosing to do right every bit as much as preventing us from doing wrong.
 
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FireDragon76

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As different religions preach about which God is the right God and which bible is the right bible,

The classic case of the blind men and the elephant, everybody is going to see stuff differently depending on if they have a trunk in their hand or a tusk.

there are human beings that suffer each and everyday and has never seen nor heard the voice of any God. My question to chrstians are linked below....If God Really exist then why..........?

Sometimes suffering brings a person closer to God, too. Not always of course, but suffering is a great spiritual opportunity. When everything else fals out of your life, there's a sense of emptiness. Sometimes it can seem scary, but if you let go an fall into that emptiness, you might just find yourself caught in the grasp of great arms. The stumbling block of course is control... we are so used to being in control it is difficult to take that final step and that existential leap. It is almost like dying and being reborn.

I agree with what Albion says... we believe in a fallen world where all kinds of evil are present. Adam and Eve made a bad choice, they suffered for it. Cain made an even worse choice and murdered his brother out of jealousy, and soon all sorts of evil was brought into the world. People stopped caring about God and doing good. But God has made covenants with certain individuals, if you obey my laws, things will get better and I will bless you. He made the final covenant in Jesus Christ with the whole world, to set all things right. And now, Jesus is still looking for disciples to help him set things right. But we still have the power to not obey God and keep our part of the covenant, to not set things right. Too many people in this world do not follow Jesus, so that is why this world is the way it is.

There's a Roman Catholic feast day that starts before Christmas's Lenten season, called the feast of Christ the King. Pope Pious XI created it in 1925, partly as a result of the nationalism and secularism that came after WWI. His words were almost prophetic, unless men and women acknowledge Christ as King in this world, the horrors of war would continue. I think its a beautiful idea for a feast, and one that I wish more Protestants would celebrate it more openly; even though it is found in the Revised Common Lectionary most Protestants use, the specific circumstances surrounding the creation of the feast are not always emphasized. This is the feast to recognize not only that Jesus Christ is our Savior, but that he is also our Lord and King, and that we cannot be true Christians until we start to live the kind of life Jesus wants of us, to be healers in this world, his hands and feet in a world of sin and suffering.
 
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kristina411

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My suffering brought me closer to God. It wasn't some easy transition either, it took 20 something years of abuse and me rebelling against God for "letting the abuse happen for so long".
But God didn't let the abuse happen. The abusers did.
You can spin it whichever way you want but the majority of tragedies in the world are done by mans sin alone. If God came in to stop us when we sin we would, as mentioned, have no free will to follow him. He doesn't want us to follow him because we have to but because we have a heart that desires to.
For natural disasters and the like... They are tragic but like mentioned in a previous thread, maybe it I a way at population control. We were not made for reality tv shoes about 16 & pregnant, nor being single parents and having numerous children by multiple people. I'm sure this has helped the population to grow and maybe the disasters are to curb that some, maybe we have just trashed this beautiful planet for far too long.

We wont know the reason for every tragedy, but if we take an honest look we can see how sin, in one way or another, by man led to the majority of tragedies.
 
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orangeness365

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the bible has a lot to say about suffering.

What Does the Bible Say About Suffering?

In the Bible we are told to suffer on behalf of Christ. We have to remember that God is the refiner's fire, and in order to get tested metals from him in the spirit, sometimes we have to go through the fire.

Malachi 3:2-3
2But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap. 3He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, and they will bring offerings in righteousness to the Lord.

Revelation 3:17-19

17For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.
 
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BrokenWarrior

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This question has been asked forever, Clive, and the answer is always the same. God did not want to make a race of robots. He already had legions of angels to do his bidding. They were programmed to do it.

He allowed Adam and Even to decide on their own actions. They did wrong and we do wrong. Of course, God could prevent that from happening, but then he would be preventing us from choosing to do right every bit as much as preventing us from doing wrong.

^^ this ^^

He allows us free will, we flobbed things up but because He loves us He has given us a way to be justified.

we must BELIEVE in Christ, he's not some magician that's gonna pop up and do things for us to believe, He has given us a choice, Believe and be saved, or don't believe and be punished.
 
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TillICollapse

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Some thoughts:

* When I read the scriptures, I seem to see the "origin" of suffering, hardship, death, pain, etc mentioned in the very beginning of Genesis. Each systematic addition of hardship, even concerning aspects of the earth and nature ... are either directly mentioned or alluded to in the first few chapters.

* What I think begs the question, scripturaly speaking, is actually with the Noah account and the flood. *If* the flood and keeping Noah back was a "cleansing" of sorts, why let so many aspects of life we would view as "suffering" continue after the flood ? Why not "start over" at that point ?

* Secondly, another obvious question would be, why was there an opportunity for suffering, pain, etc in the first place ? I can see where aspects of Genesis allude to possibilities of explanation ... however I don't see this typically addressed. In the beginning of the creation account in Chapter 1, there are many things that are there with the "spirit of Elohim" at the beginning: darkness, chaos, an abyss. Were these things there in an irreversible way already ? Elohim didn't say they were "good".

Anyone who reads the scriptures (or anyone) have any thoughts ?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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^^ this ^^

He allows us free will, we flobbed things up but because He loves us He has given us a way to be justified.

He allows us free will, but if we use it in a way not pleasing to him, he will punish us?

we must BELIEVE in Christ, he's not some magician that's gonna pop up and do things for us to believe, He has given us a choice, Believe and be saved, or don't believe and be punished.

What's so important about belief that one's salvation should depend on it anyway? Should people be punished for honest doubt?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Apparently.

That's an interesting thought. God places so much importance on free will that he apparently allows all manner of evil to go on unchallenged by his divine authority, and yet the one thing he cannot abide is the decision to withhold worship from him. Freely choosing to hurt others is permissible, but freely declining to worship him is enough to warrant coercive intervention.
 
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BrokenWarrior

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That's an interesting thought. God places so much importance on free will that he apparently allows all manner of evil to go on unchallenged by his divine authority, and yet the one thing he cannot abide is the "decision" to withhold worship from him. Freely choosing to hurt others is permissible, but freely declining to worship him is enough to warrant coercive intervention.

Incorrect,

He is the creator so He gets to set the standerds, regardless if we like it our not. He has granted us a free pardon to take if we are willing.

What a lot of people don't realize is, it's over... "End Game" is already here. He is simply waiting for everyone He has chosen to be called, an opportunity to accept His forgiveness or not.

Once that has happened, BAM, judgment.

We think He is allowing all this war and death to happen because he doesn't care, when in reality he does, each second is another second for someone somewhere to be forgiven. Things are happening on the sideline while all that really matters (The chance to escape punishment of sin) is here.

I confess I don't know everything in the Lord's plan but as scripture says, "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

-The Lowest Servant
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Incorrect,

He is the creator so He gets to set the standerds, regardless if we like it our not. He has granted us a free pardon to take if we are willing.

What a lot of people don't realize is, it's over... "End Game" is already here. He is simply waiting for everyone He has chosen to be called, an opportunity to accept His forgiveness or not.

Once that has happened, BAM, judgment.

We think He is allowing all this war and death to happen because he doesn't care, when in reality he does, each second is another second for someone somewhere to be forgiven. Things are happening on the sideline while all that really matters (The chance to escape punishment of sin) is here.

What you've just said suggests that he doesn't care about all the suffering that goes on in the world. All he cares about is that he is loved and worshipped. Those who do not satisfy his narcissism are eternally damned.
 
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BrokenWarrior

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What you've just said suggests that he doesn't care about all the suffering that goes on in the world. All he cares about is that he is loved and worshipped. Those who do not satisfy his narcissism are eternally damned.

Incorrect, He loves us so much, that, while we were His enemies, He chose to come down in the flesh, endure temptation, be brutally beat, nailed to a tree, and eventually die, JUST for our sake, not even His own, He didn't care about Himself, He loves us so much that He went through all that to give us the opportunity to escape the punishment of disobeying him (as a child disobeyes his parent/s)

He chooses what's right and what's wrong, and we chose to defy Him, yet He loves us so much that He sacrificed Himself for our sake...

Out of all that, all He asks is that we repent and believe in His name.... just repent and believe! WHAT LOVE! If you won't accept His pardon you'll be punished for your disobedience.

He gives you the choice...

-The Lowest Servant
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Incorrect, He loves us so much, that, while we were His enemies, He chose to come down in the flesh, endure temptation, be brutally beat, nailed to a tree, and eventually die, JUST for our sake, not even His own, He didn't care about Himself, He loves us so much that He went through all that to give us the opportunity to escape the punishment of disobeying him (as a child disobeyes his parent/s)

I know of no parent who considers an eternity of misery and torture to be an appropriate punishment for their children's disobedience.

He chooses what's right and what's wrong, and we chose to defy Him, yet He loves us so much that He sacrificed Himself for our sake...

Out of all that, all He asks is that we repent and believe in His name.... just repent and believe! WHAT LOVE! If you won't accept His pardon you'll be punished for your disobedience.

"I love you. Love me back or I'll hurt you." That doesn't seem like genuine love to me. It seems more like an insatiable desire to be loved.
 
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BrokenWarrior

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I know of no parent who considers an eternity of misery and torture to be an appropriate punishment for their children's disobedience.



"I love you. Love me back or I'll hurt you." That doesn't seem like genuine love to me. It seems more like an insatiable desire to be loved.

He can not go against His own Divine nature...

A child disobeyes and gets punished.

Surly our transgressions are worse than a simple mistake of a child? So surly are the consequences?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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He can not go against His own Divine nature...

How do you know that a proclivity for punishment is part of his nature?

A child disobeyes and gets punished.

Surly our transgressions are worse than a simple mistake of a child? So surly are the consequences?

Why does honest doubt deserve an eternity of misery and torture as a punishment?
 
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BrokenWarrior

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How do you know that a proclivity for punishment is part of his nature?



Why does honest doubt deserve an eternity of misery and torture as a punishment?

He sets the rules,He chooses what is right and wrong, not me, not you, not anybody else.

He's not punishing you for disbelief, He's punishing you for your sins you did not choose to have forgiven;)

-The Lowest Servant
 
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orangeness365

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He actually does care about all of the suffering that goes on. If you read the book of Revelation you will see that he is constantly avenging the deaths of his martyrs against the unrepentant as things get worse and worse. If that punishment is not enough and they are unrepentant, there is hell.
 
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