If God loves us why is all reality an illusion?

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DarkSoul999

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It starts from the very beginning of the Bible where it describes the creation of the Earth in 7 literal days. I've tried very hard to find a way to reason around this but there is no way it is true unless this is intended to be poetic. "There was evening and there was morning" cannot be an accurate description of reality unless the writer received visions of a single day in between vast expanses of time. That would be totally rational. Or perhaps all of time is happening at once and the writer is trying to describe "God time" but a human can only understand it sequentially so he mentally divides it into 7 evenings and mornings witnessed in the vision. That is also very reasonable.

I do not have enough of a background in history or ancient literature to understand this style of writing. If it is meant to be a purely literal read then there is no hope...the Bible is either an ancient fairy tale or God is a deceiver (not supported by scripture). I would prefer not to jump to either conclusion but....

Let's assume that Chapter 1 really is intended to be a literal description of reality over the course of a single week. Why would God make it totally impossible for us to verify this? 100% of evidence in nature supports an old Earth. Only people with zero scientific training or highly dishonest former scientists will say otherwise. So it would prove that God is a deceiver only out to test for blind faith. He would trick our eyes with such intensity that only those who can somehow get locked into psychological confirmation bias will be able to find salvation.

This is NOT consistent with the rest of the Bible. God does not create FAKE universes to test the faith of humanity. That is an incredibly cruel thing to do. Salvation is already difficult even if you don't have to question the accuracy of the Bible.

I don't know where to go with this. We cannot prove without a doubt that Genesis had poetic elements. There is no disclaimer at the bottom of the ancient text stating "this is a poem yall!". The author's intentions are mysterious. The only thing that we can determine with certainty is that God is described as the creator. If that was the ONLY intention for that passage then we are in the clear for all of this. The Bible is not required to give a detailed account of all creation. An abbreviated summary finished off with evening-morning period divider would work just fine but there is no way to know if this was intended.

If God loves us why can't he at least make chapter 1 a bit easier? Don't you think it is pretty essential to start off on the correct footing if you want someone to believe that Jesus died and came back to life to save your soul?

Note:
I have no idea what part of the forum this should go in but my faith is pretty weak so I'm putting it here
 

yeshuaslavejeff

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It starts from the very beginning of the Bible where it describes the creation of the Earth in 7 literal days. I've tried very hard to find a way to reason around this but there is no way it is true unless this is intended to be poetic.
If you don't believe God's Word,
what are you seeking instead ? Can anything or anyone else save people from destruction ?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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If God loves us why can't he at least make chapter 1 a bit easier? Don't you think it is pretty essential to start off on the correct footing if you want someone to believe that Jesus died and came back to life to save your soul?
Rather, because God loves us, He gave us His Word which is TRUTH, unchanging TRUTH,
and His Son Jesus died for our sins.

Why would you ever even think that creating the universe and everything in it would be difficult for God ?

Why would God, God Who fills the universe entirely and more with His Being, and holds it together ,
why would He care about
mere man ?

Why would such a great God as He Is,
send His Son Jesus, also God,
to be born a man, leaving His Throne in heaven to walk as a man on earth, SINFUL EARTH among SINFUL MEN ?

For no reason at all..... Simply, HE DESIRED TO...
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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100% of evidence in nature supports an old Earth. Only people with zero scientific training or highly dishonest former scientists will say otherwise.
Oh oh.... why are you being dishonest now?
God is never dishonest.

Why are you trusting in sinful, wicked men now ? (thus your "dark" soul ! ? )

Rather repent, turn to God Who Loves you for no reason at all (think on this! ) ,

and repent, ask God for forgiveness in His Mercy and Grace through Jesus the Savior Messiah King of the Jews,

and see if God will grant you life and truth and eternal life to boot.
 
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drjean

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Only people with zero scientific training or highly dishonest former scientists will say otherwise.

Oh really? (That's considered flaming here, but don't do it again and I'll let it ride).

You either believe literal creation or you don't. If you read the list of creation one could surmise that plants cannot live without sunshine and such for more than a few days... surely not millions of years.

I don't think your issue is with creation though. Your issue is believing in God. You cannot and will not be able to understand or have faith in God's Word until you have faith in God Almighty. (I suspect you have a god of something that you believe in, maybe it's yourself?)

God says, "For the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, neither can he know them for they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED. " You need the Holy Spirit to enlighten you for understanding.
 
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DarkSoul999

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If you don't believe God's Word,
what are you seeking instead ? Can anything or anyone else save people from destruction ?

Did you not even read my thread? I'm trying very very hard to prove Christianity to myself precisely because there is no other hope. I don't want to consider the absolute despair of being totally alone in this world unless there is no other option.
 
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DarkSoul999

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Rather, because God loves us, He gave us His Word which is TRUTH, unchanging TRUTH,
and His Son Jesus died for our sins.

Why would you ever even think that creating the universe and everything in it would be difficult for God ?

Why would God, God Who fills the universe entirely and more with His Being, and holds it together ,
why would He care about
mere man ?

Why would such a great God as He Is,
send His Son Jesus, also God,
to be born a man, leaving His Throne in heaven to walk as a man on earth, SINFUL EARTH among SINFUL MEN ?

For no reason at all..... Simply, HE DESIRED TO...

Doing all that in 7 days real time would mean that all the light waves from space and DNA were scrambled like a shell game and that the behavior of atoms and subatomic particles were deliberately altered so our past would be completely untraceable.

Why would God want the Bible to be the ONLY record? He wouldn't do that unless he wants blind faith. I will fail that test...I'm doomed if that is the test. I've never been able to believe anything blindly.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Did you not even read my thread? I'm trying very very hard to prove Christianity to myself precisely because there is no other hope. I don't want to consider the absolute despair of being totally alone in this world unless there is no other option.
Yes, the OP, I read it - you choose to believe Yahweh's (God's) Word , or not believe it. If you choose to not believe it, there is no hope.

If you choose to believe men, instead of Yahweh,
there is no hope. Only judgment, only a curse remains.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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He wouldn't do that unless he wants blind faith. I will fail that test...I'm doomed if that is the test. I've never been able to believe anything blindly.

As you believe.... even though seriously wrong,
it shall be...
 
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DarkSoul999

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Oh oh.... why are you being dishonest now?
God is never dishonest.

Why are you trusting in sinful, wicked men now ? (thus your "dark" soul ! ? )

Rather repent, turn to God Who Loves you for no reason at all (think on this! ) ,

and repent, ask God for forgiveness in His Mercy and Grace through Jesus the Savior Messiah King of the Jews,

and see if God will grant you life and truth and eternal life to boot.

I don't know what you are saying. Why would God want our own eyes to deceive us?

When Christ came back from the dead he sat, chatted, and ate with the disciples for a while. He didn't send a messenger with the news to test their faith levels...
 
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It starts from the very beginning of the Bible where it describes the creation of the Earth in 7 literal days. I've tried very hard to find a way to reason around this but there is no way it is true unless this is intended to be poetic. "There was evening and there was morning" cannot be an accurate description of reality unless the writer received visions of a single day in between vast expanses of time. That would be totally rational. Or perhaps all of time is happening at once and the writer is trying to describe "God time" but a human can only understand it sequentially so he mentally divides it into 7 evenings and mornings witnessed in the vision. That is also very reasonable.

I do not have enough of a background in history or ancient literature to understand this style of writing. If it is meant to be a purely literal read then there is no hope...the Bible is either an ancient fairy tale or God is a deceiver (not supported by scripture). I would prefer not to jump to either conclusion but....

Let's assume that Chapter 1 really is intended to be a literal description of reality over the course of a single week. Why would God make it totally impossible for us to verify this? 100% of evidence in nature supports an old Earth. Only people with zero scientific training or highly dishonest former scientists will say otherwise. So it would prove that God is a deceiver only out to test for blind faith. He would trick our eyes with such intensity that only those who can somehow get locked into psychological confirmation bias will be able to find salvation.

This is NOT consistent with the rest of the Bible. God does not create FAKE universes to test the faith of humanity. That is an incredibly cruel thing to do. Salvation is already difficult even if you don't have to question the accuracy of the Bible.

I don't know where to go with this. We cannot prove without a doubt that Genesis had poetic elements. There is no disclaimer at the bottom of the ancient text stating "this is a poem yall!". The author's intentions are mysterious. The only thing that we can determine with certainty is that God is described as the creator. If that was the ONLY intention for that passage then we are in the clear for all of this. The Bible is not required to give a detailed account of all creation. An abbreviated summary finished off with evening-morning period divider would work just fine but there is no way to know if this was intended.

If God loves us why can't he at least make chapter 1 a bit easier? Don't you think it is pretty essential to start off on the correct footing if you want someone to believe that Jesus died and came back to life to save your soul?

Note:
I have no idea what part of the forum this should go in but my faith is pretty weak so I'm putting it here

There's no reason not to go right ahead and assume this first chapter is a parable, not intended to hold humanity back from discovering the literal truth about how the earth came to be. Parables are, after all, not normally considered as necessarily literal. Let each "day" be an epoch and allow them to be presented as topical order of discussion rather than linear non-overlapping order and all conflicts melt away. Refuse to allow such non-literal interpretation and you have the Bible in conflict with reality. Choose carefully which option you select.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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God hates me
There are some men that God hates - listed in His Book, the Bible.
For instance, in heaven, there are no gays, no thieves, no adulterers, no idolators, no one greedy, and so on....
are you in one of the 'groups' that God hates ?
 
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DarkSoul999

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Yes, the OP, I read it - you choose to believe Yahweh's (God's) Word , or not believe it. If you choose to not believe it, there is no hope.

If you choose to believe men, instead of Yahweh,
there is no hope. Only judgment, only a curse remains.

What does it mean to "believe"? What you are asking is impossible.
 
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DarkSoul999

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There are some men that God hates - listed in His Book, the Bible.
For instance, in heaven, there are no gays, no thieves, no adulterers, no idolators, no one greedy, and so on....
are you in one of the 'groups' that God hates ?

What suicide method would you recommend? If I'm God's worthless mistake then I should be removed from this planet asap
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I don't know what you are saying. Why would God want our own eyes to deceive us?
You CHOSE, not God chose, you chose to trust men.
God says HE curses those who trust men(flesh/ mankind).

IF you choose, free will and all, by grace,
IF you choose to trust GOD instead of man, repent of trusting men, and repent of living a sinful life,
THEN
you may be in the LIGHT, trust JESUS, and learn from Him.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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What does it mean to "believe"? What you are asking is impossible.
You came to an anonymous forum, with anonymous posters from all over the world,
to try to "believe" in something someone you don't know and never saw says ?
Your very eternal life and soul are at risk.

Jesus was crucified to save mankind from sin...
the only way to be saved is through Jesus.
 
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DarkSoul999

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You CHOSE, not God chose, you chose to trust men.
God says HE curses those who trust men(flesh/ mankind).

IF you choose, free will and all, by grace,
IF you choose to trust GOD instead of man, repent of trusting men, and repent of living a sinful life,
THEN
you may be in the LIGHT, trust JESUS, and learn from Him.

If I'm already condemned to hell then I need to kill myself. If God demands absolute certainty in an impossible statement then there is no hope.

I asked you a question. What suicide method would you recommend? Answer the question and stop stalling...
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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What suicide method would you recommend? If I'm God's worthless mistake then I should be removed from this planet asap
Never even think of that.
If you think you are a worthless mistake, then turn to God who can make you a precious life saved by Him.

If you are playing games with this forum, stop.
The consequences are enormous, mostly to you.
 
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DarkSoul999

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You came to an anonymous forum, with anonymous posters from all over the world,
to try to "believe" in something someone you don't know and never saw says ?
Your very eternal life and soul are at risk.

Jesus was crucified to save mankind from sin...
the only way to be saved is through Jesus.

My real life is just as pathetic. Everyone I know is even further away from God than I am. I am totally alone in trying to figure this nightmare out...
 
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