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If God is sadistic, he's not very good at it

URA

Pray in silence...God speaks softly
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This is a fairly recent idea for me, so I'm not sure how well I can explain it. Please bear with me & ask for clarification if need be. Also, other believers who have thoughts about this idea, please share; I know I'm limited in his well I can explain things, so I could use the assistance of the rest of you. But onto the topic...

A common explanation for people's lack of faith in God, or at least in a loving God, is some variation of this:

I can't believe in a loving God because he seems so sadistic, like he's trying to cause sufferings!

For people in really bad life situations, this can seen to be the case; how would a God who truly loves people allow this much suffering? An analogy is often made, featuring God as a sadistic kid using a World Simulator video game, causing floods & destruction for his own entertainment. This is the analogy I'll be working off of for this post.

If God really did like destruction, he would probably enjoy big things; anyone who plays video games & enjoys destroying the characters does so in fun ways. Big explosions, Sharknados, black holes, or just being like my old roommate who just punched everyone in the face on Fallout.

Certainly, these big things happen, sometimes, but if suffering is something God induces for his entertainment, he would do it far more often. Perhaps earthquakes come to mind; it seems that God wouldn't bother with small earthquakes if suffering was his intention, and multiple massive earthquakes a year would be a lot more fun than spreading them out so thin, as happens now. Keeping them restricted to fault lines is also a bit strange; more unpredictability would be more fun.

But perhaps God is less interested in big things, and has the more sadistic mindset of enjoying slow suffering, and giving people a false sense of security by treating them well for a bit, just to rip their life apart again. This view may be held after bad break-ups, mental illness episodes, or other smaller-scale causes of heavy suffering. What then?

Again, these things would be much more common; it seems strange that God would make some people totally free from these sufferings, and give others very good coping mechanisms to experience these things without much duress. Creating humans with a capability to find joy in any circumstance is a lousy way to torture them for pleasure (look up Francis of Assisi for an example of joy in all situations).

Still, suffering is prevalent. If you want a very good explanation for this (and many other objections to a loving, real God), J. Warner Wallace (a former self-described "angry atheist" ) wrote an excellent book called Cold Case Christianity, giving an exceptionally rational explanation for the logic of Christianity, with the thoroughness of a convert who didn't believe these things to begin with. Here, I will present my case for showing that God isn't sadistic.

Think of a weight room. As every one who has ever been serious about working out knows, those weights can cause a lot of suffering; watch someone try to walk normally after Leg Day, and you'll see that workouts may make you feel better in the long run, but they really suck in the short term.

Perhaps a better example is military boot camp; it's intentionally made difficult, to build strength for something even greater than just what you can get out of a weight room. Boot camp is more intense than workouts, with mandatory haircuts, high standards of cleanliness & bedsheet folding, mental stress, waking up at 4:00am, and so on. But the reward is so much greater than what can be achieved by just a weight room!

Now maybe you're not so optimistic about the military, or building muscle. But do you see my point? The suffering of this life seems much more like the suffering of a weight room than the suffering inflicting by a sadistic freak. Why would spirituality throughout the ages give such a meaning & coping & promise of a release from sufferings, if God (whoever he may be) didn't want suffering to ultimately serve something higher? And why would so many homeless people, with their own batch of mental illness, divorce, and a myriad of other problems, so often have signs that say, "God bless you"?

From my friend's involvement with human trafficking (the fancy term for slavery, often in the sex industry [Where people are kidnapped into pornography or stripping or prostitution], she has seen the worst of mankind & the greatest sufferings that children can go through. It's not uncommon for a 14-year old to be sold for sex multiple times a night for the past several years, to people who think prostitutes are just harlots there by their own choice. My friend spent a summer in Thailand, where sex trafficking is particularly prevalent, and still has some PTSD symptoms from it. But where she sees the worst of humanity, she also sees the best; the people who risk & dedicate their lives to fighting evil are incredible. She also the incredible faith that many of those people have; I'm the worst of circumstances, they still find ways to cope, to have hope, to support each other.

If a sadistic, all-powerful God wants to cause suffering, it would be a terrible idea to instill such strong faith, hope, and healing into humans.

And I know that suffering can be very difficult to comprehend, and attempts at logical arguments might only serve to further frustrate people. I won't try to act like I truly understand your situation; for what it's worth, I pray for you every day. Just know that there are people in somehow even worse situations than you who hold onto some kind of hope & meaning.

If you are inclined to think that God is in any way sadistic, please think all this over, and let us know your thoughts.
 

Al Touthentop

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I don't think there's anything you've said here that couldn't be flipped on it's head to support the opposite notion:

"If god is benevolent, he's not very good at it"

Basically, if God was totally evil, the world would be a nightmarish hellscape, but if God was totally good, the world would be a heavenly paradise. Since it isn't either, why think that God lands on either end of those polar opposites?

Actually, I think that if God created a paradise here on earth, we'd all end up weak whiners who constantly complained about the lack of amenities.
 
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Al Touthentop

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Odd that he created Eden then. Or are you supralapsarian?

I was being a bit tongue in cheek, but didn't Eve eat the fruit because she wasn't satisfied with everything that was provided?
 
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URA

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But an emotional reaction is easier for the christian mind to stomach then a logical conclusion.
Thank you for sharing your views! I find it interesting the kinds of conclusions people sometimes make about me who don't actually know me. I'm not an emotional person, very scientifically & logically minded (a former engineering student), and emotionalistic Christianity was always something I ran from, and it's prevalence was the main reason I never got into Christian groups before college.

If a logical answer is something you're looking for, then Cold Case Christianity is what you want. I already mentioned it above, and it illustrates some exceptionally logical explanations for all things Christian. While I know you may have no interest in reading it, with all due respect (and I do mean that), I bring it up because the idea of Christianity having no logical basis is completely bogus, as J. Warner Wallace proves. In another one of his books, God's Crime Scene, he explains that God's existence is the most logical thing to conclude, with strong scientific evidence to explain the immense improbability of a universe without a God.

Possibly the worst analogy on any topic I have ever encountered. However, I guess I could give you the benefit of further explanation. My friend's 2 year old daughter died a couple of months ago after a 6 month battle with cancer.
I do appreciate the extra explanation, and it's terrible that this happened. My only question is, what do you think about all the people who have similar & even worse situations that still believe in a loving God?
 
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FreeinChrist

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ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a clean up and was moved from The Kitchen Sink to Christian Philosophy & Ethics.
The Kitchen Sink is not for Apologetics or Theology topics.

 
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Bob Crowley

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I don't have an answer to the question of suffering. A couple of days ago a number of Australians (and others I presume) died by "misadventure" when a volcano exploded on White Island in New Zealand. Not long before they had been on a cruise ship, with all the facilities such cruises offer (never been on one myself and since my wife would get seasick in the bathtub, I can't see us going anytime).

A short time later they were dead, while others were grievously injured. The people who stayed on the boat or did other things remained alive, and in full health.

Tomorrow a few of us are going to try to offer a bit of cheer to a number of families in our local area by giving gifts and hampers. But one of them lost her daughter to unintentional suicide a year or so ago, and her sister to cancer a day or so ago. Another's son had a bad motor bike accident yesterday.

What are the gifts and hampers going to do for those families, really? Show someone cares? Show God cares?

I've read a number of explanations about suffering, and so far none of them have really done much to solve the problem, least of all the Book of Job. In the end Job gets everything back doubled, which is completely at odds about the suffering of most people. But that's only after God turns up in a display of strength and almost mocks a seriously ill man whose has lost everything and has spent days trying to get an answer, while putting up with a lot of ridicule in the process.

Somehow or other I think I think in the end "justice" will be done - in the next life, not this one. But if somebody asked me to prove it, I'd have my work cut out.

I don't think God is sadistic. There might be a lot of people in hospitals, some of them dying. But there are many times that number walking around in good health, and hardly suffering at all. Eventually though, every single one of us will die, one way or another.

I suppose there's one thing we should learn from these terrible events - God isn't soft. When the young men hurled themselves over the trenches at the Battle of the Somme, such that the British lost 19,000 young men on the first day alone, what was God's reaction? By the end of the battle one million men, mostly young, had been killed or wounded, and a generation of future leaders had been decimated.

Where was God? He certainly saw it all, and let it go on unabated. I don't have an answer to the question of suffering, which is really what this post is about.
 
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URA

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ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a clean up and was moved from The Kitchen Sink to Christian Philosophy & Ethics.
The Kitchen Sink is not for Apologetics or Theology topics.


Where should I put posts about such as this one, where non-Christians can respond? I want to reach out to the non-Christians with these sorts of topics, and if the Kitchen Sink isn't the place, where should it go?

May God continue to bless us all!
 
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