If God is everywhere.....

[woobadooba]

God is everywhere in the sense that His life holds all things together. Of course, that's not to suggest that He can't be wherever He wants to be at any given time, nor is it to imply that He can't be in multiple places at the same time. There would be no sense in Jesus saying that He would be with us always if omnipresence were an impossibility for God.

As for the work of angels, God delegates work to them to make them feel useful. Thus, this works as a means to bring about and maintain a deeper sense of happiness as it enables them to grasp a more profound understanding of His character, which is Love.

Does it not give you pleasure to know that you are there to help someone when they are in need of help? Does it not help you to better understand what it means to love like God to act thusly?

Therefore, just as we are to grow in our understanding of the character of God, the angels in heaven will likewise continue to grow in God's love.

 

[sentipente]

As for the work of angels, God delegates work to them to make them feel useful. Thus, this works as a means to bring about and maintain a deeper sense of happiness as it enables them to grasp a more profound understanding of His character, which is Love.

Does it not give you pleasure to know that you are there to help someone when they are in need of help? Does it not help you to better understand what it means to love like God to act thusly?

Therefore, just as we are to grow in our understanding of the character of God, the angels in heaven will likewise continue to grow in God's love.

You cannot use arguments that explain the BEHAVIOR of humans to prove the EXISTENCE of angels. Why do you assume that angels exist? Note that I am not asking why you assume that other beings exist. There is a difference here that reflects a true distinction. An angel is a messenger. That is what the word means. Humans are not messengers. We were not created to bring the Creator's message to other beings or to do his work. Let us not confuse the fact that one human can bring a message to another with what we are discussing here. The Creator does not need messengers. He does not need anyone to do His bidding. We should be careful not to use circular reasoning to prove that He does.

If you do not accept what the writers had to say about the creation as fact why do you accept what they had to say about the One who created the creation as fact?

Please deal with the questions I have asked. I don't care whether you do so directly or indirectly, but I wish to be able to go from your response to my questions.

 

[sentipente]

I suppose its the same with God. He does not need angels or anything.


Its all a luxury for Him.


AT

You suppose. If you believe God does things out of "luxury" then there is no way He can be trusted. You cannot trust someone who may just do something different on a whim. You cannot trust your equipment if at any time it could do something you don't expect it to do.

Let me use an example that may help you. If you met a being that looked just like your father in every detail but noticed upon closer inspection that this being only moved by rising 3ft into the air then moving forward a few feet then dropping back to the ground, would you conclude that this was a human being who had a different method of locomotion or that this was a different species who looked like a human being? I hope you say the latter because that is the only logical conclusion given what you know about human beings. It would not be logical for you to come to us and argue that it is a human being who had learned how to move differently. The difference in locomotion is sufficient to convince us that it is not a human being. We know than an omnipresent being does not need messengers because there is nothing that the messengers could tell Him that He does not already know. To have messengers would be the ultimate in laziness because either the messengers would be busy in reduncy or he would have to stop being Himself so they can be of use.

 

[woobadooba]

You cannot use arguments that explain the BEHAVIOR of humans to prove the EXISTENCE of angels. Why do you assume that angels exist? Note that I am not asking why you assume that other beings exist. There is a difference here that reflects a true distinction. An angel is a messenger. That is what the word means. Humans are not messengers. We were not created to bring the Creator's message to other beings or to do his work. Let us not confuse the fact that one human can bring a message to another with what we are discussing here. The Creator does not need messengers. He does not need anyone to do His bidding. We should be careful not to use circular reasoning to prove that He does.

If you do not accept what the writers had to say about the creation as fact why do you accept what they had to say about the One who created the creation as fact?

Please deal with the questions I have asked. I don't care whether you do so directly or indirectly, but I wish to be able to go from your response to my questions.

Your response indicates that you do not understand what I had said.

I never said 'God needs' anything, nor does this thread have to do with proving that angels exist.

It's not a matter of what God needs to know about us. It is a matter of what we ought to know about God's character.

Therefore, God delegates His work not because He can't do it Himself, but because the implementation of such work on our part serves as a means to enable us to better understand His character and to grow in His love. And so it is the same with the angels in heaven who likewise need to better understand His character and to grow in His love.

 

[sentipente]

Your response indicates that you do not understand what I had said.

I never said 'God needs' anything, nor does this thread have to do with proving that angels exist.

Maybe it may be beneficial to read the OP again. Here it is:

Okay this one has been nagging me for a while.... here is the question... If God is everywhere, and he is all powerful and all knowing, why would he need angels to record anything? In fact why would he need angels to protect us when he could do it himself... afterall he is everywhere right?

 

[woobadooba]

Maybe it may be beneficial to read the OP again. Here it is:

I read the OP

However, you are reading something into the OP that isn't there.

Stormy is not questioning the existence of angels. He is asking the question of why they would be needed to do the work of God if God can be in all places at the same time.

 

[Adventtruth]

You suppose. If you believe God does things out of "luxury" then there is no way He can be trusted. You can not trust someone who may just do something different on a whim. You cannot trust your equipment if at any time it could do something you don't expect it to do.

This is nonsense at best. None of us know God perfectly, but I would say you are greatly mistaken in your understanding of Him by the things you write concerning Him. All things He creates are a luxury to Him. He certainly does not need anything or any body.



AT

 

[HypoTypoSis]

If God is everywhere...

• If God is physically a part of and in everything, to whatever degree an individual may choose to believe, then that is what is referred to as some form of pantheism. Cultic at the least, pagan at the extreme; definitely it does not fall within the confines of the ever-widening definition of 'Christianity".
• During the Creation Week God breathed His breath of life (aka spirit of life) into each of the natural order of creation; including all plants, animals, sea life and, of course, man. In that sense God is present everywhere witnessing all thoughts and actions of all mankind. Definitely sounds like a lifelong evidentiary Witness, an irrefutable Witness until such time as God calls His breath of life back to Himself.
• The Holy Spirit, within those in and of Jesus Christ, bears testimony of life everlasting just as it does of that individual's repentence and forgiveness; additionally, the believer possesses his own eternal spirit separate and apart from God's breath of life and the Holy Spirit.
• Those not in and of Jesus Christ are likened, according to the scriptures, to that of the beasts of the field for, aside from God's breath of life keeping the flesh alive, they have no indwellment of the Holy Spirit nor have they a spirit of their own.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

why would he need angels to record anything?

An apparent non sequitar.

 

[StormyOne]

• If God is physically a part of and in everything, to whatever degree an individual may choose to believe, then that is what is referred to as some form of pantheism. Cultic at the least, pagan at the extreme; definitely it does not fall within the confines of the ever-widening definition of 'Christianity".
• During the Creation Week God breathed His breath of life (aka spirit of life) into each of the natural order of creation; including all plants, animals, sea life and, of course, man. In that sense God is present everywhere witnessing all thoughts and actions of all mankind. Definitely sounds like a lifelong evidentiary Witness, an irrefutable Witness until such time as God calls His breath of life back to Himself.
• The Holy Spirit, within those in and of Jesus Christ, bears testimony of life everlasting just as it does of that individual's repentence and forgiveness; additionally, the believer possesses his own eternal spirit separate and apart from God's breath of life and the Holy Spirit.
• Those not in and of Jesus Christ are likened, according to the scriptures, to that of the beasts of the field for, aside from God's breath of life keeping the flesh alive, they have no indwellment of the Holy Spirit nor have they a spirit of their own.

you said that to say what exactly?

 

[StormyOne]

An apparent non sequitar.

Is it really a non sequitur? There are those who teach that is angels who record the deeds of men... thus if God is omnipresent, why would angels need to record anything? Can an all knowing God somehow forget what he has observed?

 

[sentipente]

This is nonsense at best. None of us know God perfectly, but I would say you are greatly mistaken in your understanding of Him by the things you write concerning Him. All things He creates are a luxury to Him. He certainly does not need anything or any body.



AT

So you are able to trust equipment that randomly does anything it wishes to do? Is that what you are claiming here? Because that is what you responded to.

 

[bellanegra1]

Okay this one has been nagging me for a while.... here is the question... If God is everywhere, and he is all powerful and all knowing, why would he need angels to record anything? In fact why would he need angels to protect us when he could do it himself... afterall he is everywhere right?

HE "needs" them in order for "us" to be "comfortable" with the "idea" of HIM.....

Just as the thunder on the mountain... we can not imagine that HE would "actually want" to "commune" with man....

Soooooooo

Since it easier to be apart from HIM and hide.... We made up this idea of HIM........

So we have a "form of godliness" but we deny the power thereof.....

I am learning that HE loves me enough to see me JUST as I am and STILL love me...

Sooooooo....

Yes, HE is there in and out of the shower, and in my nakedness I am NOT ashamed......

The run and hide thing is still very present with us... and if we have "limited" beings... (angels) who are the ones that are actually watching over us then we do not feel so bad in the bar and or club... since we left the "beings" outside the door waiting for us... (not that they are going to be able to give an "account" from way out there... but I suppose that is the point...)

I hope I did not go off on a "tangent" on this one....

I have wondered the same for a while now....

Thanks for the brain teaser.....

 

[StormyOne]

let's revisit..... If God is everywhere, and knows everything, and is all powerful, why does he need angels?

 

[AzA]

let's revisit..... If God is everywhere, and knows everything, and is all powerful, why does he need angels?

God and creation are not mutually exclusive. So the question is still flawed in its presumption that anything in creation fills a gap left by the absence of God.

 

[Joe67]

Creation is the backside of God. It is good, but the face of God is better.

Joe

 

[StormyOne]

God and creation are not mutually exclusive. So the question is still flawed in its presumption that anything in creation fills a gap left by the absence of God.

So then the question creates a dichotomy that really does not exist? Perhaps the concept of angels needs revision?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Okay this one has been nagging me for a while.... here is the question... If God is everywhere, and he is all powerful and all knowing, why would he need angels to record anything? In fact why would he need angels to protect us when he could do it himself... afterall he is everywhere right?

Similarly, why would He need a "book of life?" So He doesn't forget? So we know why He did what He did?

BFA

 

[k4c]

Okay this one has been nagging me for a while.... here is the question... If God is everywhere, and he is all powerful and all knowing, why would he need angels to record anything? In fact why would he need angels to protect us when he could do it himself... afterall he is everywhere right?

God works through His creation. He allows His creation to participate and receive the blessings by doing the will of the Father. God doesn't need to write anything down to remember but His created beings do. God does not need other to judge but He allows us to participate in the judement. I believe it's because who better to judge a sinner with compassion and understanding than anoter sinner saved by grace. Who better to minister to a drug addict than another drug addict who was delivered and saved by God. God has everything under control and He uses His created beings to work out His good pleasure.

 

[StormyOne]

God works through His creation. He allows His creation to participate and receive the blessings by doing the will of the Father. God doesn't need to write anything down to remember but His created beings do. God does not need other to judge but He allows us to participate in the judement. I believe it's because who better to judge a sinner with compassion and understanding than anoter sinner saved by grace. Who better to minister to a drug addict than another drug addict who was delivered and saved by God. God has everything under control and He uses His created beings to work out His good pleasure.

What do you mean when you say "He allows His creation to participate and receive the blessings by doing the will of the Father?" The phrase comes across as theological double talk, so what does that look like here and now?

We do not need to write things down to remember them, they are stored in our brain, and the right trigger will produce the memory.... As for the judging thing, nah, I think the judging whatever form it may take is best left to the one who knows everything... humans have a tendency to forget to be compassionate when it counts...