If Genesis 3 is a metaphor...

[-57]

If Genesis 3 is a metaphor, parable, myth...what ever, then what really happen?

If there was no Garden, no real Adam, no Eve created from Adams side, no serpent, no tree of knowledge of good and evil and no fall Can the Theo-Evo's tell us why we are sinners in need of a savior?

When did mankind sin? What stage of evolution?
Why does mankind sin?
How was mankind thrust into sin in need of a savior?

 

[basilbear76]

If Genesis 3 is a metaphor, parable, myth...what ever, then what really happen?

If there was no Garden, no real Adam, no Eve created from Adams side, no serpent, no tree of knowledge of good and evil and no fall Can the Theo-Evo's tell us why we are sinners in need of a savior?

When did mankind sin? What stage of evolution?
Why does mankind sin?
How was mankind thrust into sin in need of a savior?

In case you didn't notice, Genesis and evolution are really talking about two different thing.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

If Genesis 3 is a metaphor, parable, myth...what ever, then what really happen?

If there was no Garden, no real Adam, no Eve created from Adams side, no serpent, no tree of knowledge of good and evil and no fall Can the Theo-Evo's tell us why we are sinners in need of a savior?

When did mankind sin? What stage of evolution? Why does mankind sin?
How was mankind thrust into sin in need of a savior?

Whether or not Genesis 3 is a metaphorical story, there is no other information we can refer to by which to answer your questions. So, we're stuck with the Bible for any spiritual answers that may be available and relevant.

In my Theo-Evo opinion, even if Genesis 3 is metaphorical, its essential meaning still stands and is representational of the actual problem; that mankind of all eras has had a tendency to separate itself from God and has always been in need of a saving reconciliation.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Very good, 2philovoid, we sometimes lose sight of how poetic and imaginative our ancestors must have been. Without the data, the facts that we find so important, they came up with creative expressions. How dry we are now, and even worse because of texting and email.

 

[-57]

In case you didn't notice, Genesis and evolution are really talking about two different thing.

What do you mean?

 

[-57]

Whether or not Genesis 3 is a metaphorical story, there is no other information we can refer to by which to answer your questions. So, we're stuck with the Bible for any spiritual answers that may be available and relevant.

In my Theo-Evo opinion, even if Genesis 3 is metaphorical, its essential meaning still stands and is representational of the actual problem; that mankind of all eras has had a tendency to separate itself from God and has always been in need of a saving reconciliation.

You kinda danced around the question ...what was the actual problem and how, when, why did it occur?

 

[-57]

Very good, 2philovoid, we sometimes lose sight of how poetic and imaginative our ancestors must have been. Without the data, the facts that we find so important, they came up with creative expressions. How dry we are now, and even worse because of texting and email.

Imaginative...let me ask, are you saying the author of Genesis wasn't inspired?

Secondly, will you answer the questions?

 

[basilbear76]

What do you mean?

Let me clarify, as I meant to do in my first posting here.

It's more to the point to compare the opening chapters of Genesis with the creation myths of the surrounding cultures.

They all put their creators (or creatoresses) in a position of being forced to create the universe.

Genesis shows that God was under no force, compulsion, or necessity to create.

Now, how God's timeless and unmaterial and boundless "Fiat" takes effect in our universe of time, space, and matter is a mystery we can never understand in this world.

In the next, we won't care.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Imaginative...let me ask, are you saying the author of Genesis wasn't inspired?

Secondly, will you answer the questions?

Are you saying inspiration and imagination are incompatible?

Sin is obvoius. It has always been around as long as people were able to chose selfishness over kindness. Thus always in need of a savior.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If Genesis 3 is a metaphor, parable, myth...what ever, then what really happen?

If there was no Garden, no real Adam, no Eve created from Adams side, no serpent, no tree of knowledge of good and evil and no fall Can the Theo-Evo's tell us why we are sinners in need of a savior?

When did mankind sin? What stage of evolution?
Why does mankind sin?
How was mankind thrust into sin in need of a savior?

If Genesis was not revealed to Moses by God as the truth of what really happened in history, then your questions can't be answered, for the following reasons:
1. There is no God who gave revelation to Moses.
2. There is no sin.
3. Therefore there was no point where mankind actually started sinning.
4. Because there is no sin, there is no plan of salvation, therefore no need for a saviour.

In other words, none of the rest of Genesis is historically true because if chapter 3 is just religious stories then the rest of it is as well.

This leads to Jesus not being the Son of God, but He was a total liar and was crucified because He broke the Jewish and Roman law and therefore was just an ordinary criminal. This means that there was no resurrection of Christ, and the Christian church is just another religious organisation with no real meaning or future. When we die, that's it. No one is going to rise from the dead and go to a heaven that doesn't exist.

Therefore, man is just a bag of chemicals with no meaning or future.

But, if Moses did write Genesis through revelation from God and that it is historically accurate from start to finish, then mankind did sin in the Garden of Eden, and Jesus really did come as the Son of God to die for us on the cross and rose from the dead, so that those who believe on Christ will rise from the dead and spend eternity with the Lord in glory.

So, everyone can make a choice:

Believe that Genesis is just a metaphor and live a meaningless life and end up rotting in the grave with no eternal future, and then end up in a cold barren universe when the sun and stars have burned out.

Or

Believe that Genesis is historically true and live a life with a future and a hope in Christ and rise from the dead one day to have a joyful future in eternity.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You kinda danced around the question ...what was the actual problem and how, when, why did it occur?

I didn't actually dance around the problem. What I did was assert that if the 3rd chapter of Genesis is metaphorical (or representational in some sublime way), then we have to realize that we CAN'T answer your questions since nothing in the natural world provides us additional revelatory answers to those questions.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

So, everyone can make a choice:

Believe that Genesis is just a metaphor and live a meaningless life and end up rotting in the grave with no eternal future, and then end up in a cold barren universe when the sun and stars have burned out.

Or

Believe that Genesis is historically true and live a life with a future and a hope in Christ and rise from the dead one day to have a joyful future in eternity.

You probably do realize that there is no universal law that states that choices you make lead to outcome you hope for ?

 

[-57]

Are you saying inspiration and imagination are incompatible?

Sin is obvoius. It has always been around as long as people were able to chose selfishness over kindness. Thus always in need of a savior.

I never said sin wasn't obvious.

I was simply asking the theo-Evo sect how it got started. If you are a Theo-Evo will you answer?

 

[-57]

Let me clarify, as I meant to do in my first posting here.

It's more to the point to compare the opening chapters of Genesis with the creation myths of the surrounding cultures.

They all put their creators (or creatoresses) in a position of being forced to create the universe.

Genesis shows that God was under no force, compulsion, or necessity to create.

Now, how God's timeless and unmaterial and boundless "Fiat" takes effect in our universe of time, space, and matter is a mystery we can never understand in this world.

In the next, we won't care.

You too didn't answer the question. Is this your way of saying i don't know?

 

[-57]

If Genesis was not revealed to Moses by God as the truth of what really happened in history, then your questions can't be answered, for the following reasons:
1. There is no God who gave revelation to Moses.
2. There is no sin.
3. Therefore there was no point where mankind actually started sinning.
4. Because there is no sin, there is no plan of salvation, therefore no need for a saviour.

In other words, none of the rest of Genesis is historically true because if chapter 3 is just religious stories then the rest of it is as well.

This leads to Jesus not being the Son of God, but He was a total liar and was crucified because He broke the Jewish and Roman law and therefore was just an ordinary criminal. This means that there was no resurrection of Christ, and the Christian church is just another religious organisation with no real meaning or future. When we die, that's it. No one is going to rise from the dead and go to a heaven that doesn't exist.

Therefore, man is just a bag of chemicals with no meaning or future.

But, if Moses did write Genesis through revelation from God and that it is historically accurate from start to finish, then mankind did sin in the Garden of Eden, and Jesus really did come as the Son of God to die for us on the cross and rose from the dead, so that those who believe on Christ will rise from the dead and spend eternity with the Lord in glory.

So, everyone can make a choice:

Believe that Genesis is just a metaphor and live a meaningless life and end up rotting in the grave with no eternal future, and then end up in a cold barren universe when the sun and stars have burned out.

Or

Believe that Genesis is historically true and live a life with a future and a hope in Christ and rise from the dead one day to have a joyful future in eternity.

Once again another has dodged the question.

When did sin begin?
Why did sin begin?
How did sin begin?

 

[-57]

I didn't actually dance around the problem. What I did was assert that if the 3rd chapter of Genesis is metaphorical (or representational in some sublime way), then we have to realize that we CAN'T answer your questions since nothing in the natural world provides us additional revelatory answers to those questions.

Sounds like you are saying "i don't know" .

Sounds like a faith in evolutionism make one throw out much of the bible because the bible gives us an answer.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sounds like you are saying "i don't know" .

Sounds like a faith in evolutionism make one throw out much of the bible because the bible gives us an answer.

... no, I didn't say that an evolutionary understanding of the world requires any of us to "throw out much of the bible." What I said was that if Genesis 3 is representational/metaphorical, then it's full meaning is hedged from us, but we can still glean the essential spiritual meaning, EVEN IF it isn't literal history.

Thus, we can know from a metaphorical reading of Genesis 3 that humanity (from God's point of view) is fallen and separated from Him. Do we 'know' when this took place? No. Do we 'know' exactly how sin infests our physical and mental being? No. But what we do know is that the bible is God's revelation to humanity, even if some of it is hedged in mystery, particularly Genesis 1 thru 3 (and maybe through ch. 11, at the least).

And that's all I'm actually saying. Try not to read more into what I'm saying than what I'm actually saying since I'm not attempting to be metaphorical here, brother -57.

 

[-57]

... no, I didn't say that an evolutionary understanding of the world requires any of us to "throw out much of the bible." What I said was that if Genesis 3 is representational/metaphorical, then it's full meaning is hedged from us, but we can still glean the essential spiritual meaning, EVEN IF it isn't literal history.

Thus, we can know from a metaphorical reading of Genesis 3 that humanity (from God's point of view) is fallen and separated from Him. Do we 'know' when this took place? No. Do we 'know' exactly how sin infests our physical and mental being? No. But what we do know is that the bible is God's revelation to humanity, even if some of it is hedged in mystery, particularly Genesis 1 thru 3 (and maybe through ch. 11, at the least).

And that's all I'm actually saying. Try not to read more into what I'm saying than what I'm actually saying since I'm not attempting to be metaphorical here, brother -57.

You throw away what you do know about the fall. Gen 3 tells of it. Even the NT authors often discuss it as literal history. Would you like to address some of those issues?
For example why did Paul write a letter to Timothy which presented guidance for women based upon a literal account of Adam, Eve and the fall?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I never said sin wasn't obvious.

I was simply asking the theo-Evo sect how it got started. If you are a Theo-Evo will you answer?

IN my opinion, It started as an aspect of our instinct of survival which can easily turn to self centeredness.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

If Genesis was not revealed to Moses by God as the truth of what really happened in history...

you jump to a lot of conclusions.