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If Evolution were true...

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SkyWriting

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- Life would commonly spring from non-life
- Life would commonly develop more and more complicated forms
- A majority of species would have living transitional forms from one species into an entirely different kind of species
- "Ring species" would not be rare. Non-ring-species would be rare.

- Humans would be the most refined, the most perfect, the best adapted, the most socially perfect of any species that ever existed.
- All species and animal life would exist in perfect harmony with it's environment.
- The more "Natural & Wild" humans acted, the better. -We would gladly kill off any overpopulated areas.
-We'd destroy any babies that don't seem fit for society.
- We'd throw Steven Hawkins over a cliff.

Stuff like that.
 
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Tiberius

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- Life would commonly spring from non-life

The only problem with this is that the life that is already well established would tend to out-compete any such new life. Even to the point of consuming such new life.

- Life would commonly develop more and more complicated forms

Evolution is not about becoming more and more complex. It is about becoming better suited to pressures that influence survival.

- A majority of species would have living transitional forms from one species into an entirely different kind of species

How so? A transitional species (I hesitate to use the term, as every species is a transition between what it evolved from and what it will evolve to) by definition exists at a time prior to the species it evolved into. So why would any of the species life today evolved from still be around?

- "Ring species" would not be rare. Non-ring-species would be rare.

For those that don't know, ring species can be explained like this. Imagine a lake. At the north end, you have a species of salamander. This population spreads southwards along both sides of the lake. The population on each side is separated from the other by a barrier, the lake. As you go south, the different selective pressures (predators, different local climates, etc) will cause the salamanders to adapt. Thus, you end up with an ancestral species (the first species of salamander), and a series of different species of salamander down each side of the lake, getting more and more different from the original species the further south you go. However, the species will not change the same way on the eastern side of the lake that they do on the western side. Thus, even though any slamander is similar enough to the salamnders a little bit north and a little bit south of it that they can mate, a salamander from the northern end can't mate with a salamander at the southern end. And what's more, when you get to the southern end, the two different "tribes" of salamander (one from the east shore and the other from the west) will have changed enough that they won't be able to mate either.

Why don't we see this more often? The simple fact is that we do. Often, the barrier is time itself. In the above salamander example, we had two different species of salamander at the southern end, but they had the north-end species as a common ancestor. Likewise, any two species alive today have a common ancestor. With closely related animals, such as a sparrow and a finch, the common ancestor lived fairly recently. With two more distantly related species, such as a dog and a lizard, the common ancestor lived much longer ago. But, just as in the salamanders, once the split was made, there were two separate populations, each evolving in its own way two become two different species. Just as in the salamander example.

- Humans would be the most refined, the most perfect, the best adapted, the most socially perfect of any species that ever existed.

Why?

- All species and animal life would exist in perfect harmony with it's environment.

No they wouldn't. All species and animal life would strive to gain whatever advantages they could.

A good example is a forest. Ever wonder why trees grow so tall? because they are striving to rise above their competitors - other trees - in their need to expose their leaves to sunlight. Now, if every tree could agree to limit its height to say, ten feet, then they would all have the same chance to gather light as their neighbours, and everyone benefits by not have to spend a huge amount of resources growing a huge trunk.

But say one tree grows to eleven feet tall. It has an advantage now. the other trees are missing out. And that's what drives them to grow taller. And then for others to grow taller still.

- The more "Natural & Wild" humans acted, the better. -We would gladly kill off any overpopulated areas.

Evolution has never said anything of the sort.

-We'd destroy any babies that don't seem fit for society.

I'm afraid you are confusing evolution with "social Daarwinism", which has nothing to do with biological evolution.

- We'd throw Steven Hawkins over a cliff.

Now you're not taking this seriously...
 
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SkyWriting

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Originally Posted by SkyWriting
-
-Life would commonly spring from non-life
The only problem with this is that the life that is already well established would tend to out-compete any such new life. Even to the point of consuming such new life.
We'll assume different locations then. Just try it.


- Life would commonly develop more and more complicated forms
Evolution is not about becoming more and more complex. It is about becoming better suited to pressures that influence survival.
That would include my statement.
- A majority of species would have living transitional forms from one species into an entirely different kind of species
Prove why they all wouldn't be around in different environments. Let's say in 1% of all cases.


- "Ring species" would not be rare. Non-ring-species would be rare.
The National Science Foundation's "Tree of Life" project estimates that there could be anywhere from 5 million to 100 million species on the planet, but science has only identified about 2 million.

I'm claiming that 23 possible cases of ring species is a low number.
I say "rare" with no regrets.

Rarity of ring species

There are few clear examples of ring species.
Since we can learn so much from ring species, it is unfortunate that few examples are known. At least 23 cases have been proposed, but most of them are not such clear examples as the salamanders and warblers.14

- Humans would be the most refined, the most perfect, the best adapted, the most socially perfect of any species that ever existed.
Why?
- All species and animal life would exist in perfect harmony with it's environment.
Actually that's not why trees grow tall. The largest organism in the world is a stand of Aspin trees 106 acres large. The trees are one organism and not in competition with each other. Yet Darwin may have thought so based on limited observations.


- The more "Natural & Wild" humans acted, the better. -We would gladly kill off any overpopulated areas.

Evolution has never said anything of the sort.
If the goal is survival, I get to choose what it means to me.

-We'd destroy any babies that don't seem fit for society.
I'm afraid you are confusing evolution with "social Daarwinism", which has nothing to do with biological evolution.
No more untrue statement could be said.


- We'd throw Steven Hawkins over a cliff.
Now you're not taking this seriously...
Animals naturally abandon those who can't walk.
Geneticist Claims Human Evolution Is Over
 
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Hespera

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If the goal is survival, I get to choose what it means to me.


Evolution is as it is, and your inability to understand why it isnt the way you think it should be is not an argument against it.

If the theory is not true, then it should be incredibly easy to find ways to disprove it.

Do you have any ideas why out of the entire scientific community of the world, and a lot of enthusiastic amateurs, nobody has ever come up with the smoking gun?

Animals naturally abandon those who can't walk

Said as if it is true of all animals. Some animals cant walk; and some do not readily abandon even their dead.
YouTube - Heart Warming Loyal Japanese Dog
 
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SkyWriting

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Do you have any ideas why out of the entire scientific community of the world, and a lot of enthusiastic amateurs, nobody has ever come up with the smoking gun?

Oh you mean "proof" about historical events? Science cannot venture into history. The scientific method doesn't allow for it. We can only assume (ass = u & me) current conditions match pre-historical conditions and make assumptions (W.A.G.'s ) about what happened. I'd just like to see an accurate weather prediction for tomorrow afternoon. Professional or amateur is fine.
 
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Hespera

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So the entire field of historical geology is invalidated because the scientific method does not allow for it?

Do you see anything wrong with your claim?

Also science doesnt do proof. That is for math and alcohol.
 
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rjc34

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Then you obviously haven't a clue about how the scientific method is used and how science itself works. Tired creationist shtick isn't really appreciated here.
 
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Tiberius

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We'll assume different locations then. Just try it.

You mean different planets? And how do you plan to test this? it's kinda hard at the moment, lack of interstellar travel and all.

That would include my statement.

But your statement would only make up a small part of it. There's lots more there that you are ignoring while taking this one thing and saying that it works against evolution because it is so small.

Prove why they all wouldn't be around in different environments. Let's say in 1% of all cases.

because of the existence of the species that they evolved into. if there was a selective pressure driving them to evolve, then the original species would not have been as well adaptred to that pressure as the newer species. hence, the original species would be extinct.


Since the article you linked to provides the answer to this, I have to assume that you didn't actually read it.

Actually that's not why trees grow tall. The largest organism in the world is a stand of Aspin trees 106 acres large. The trees are one organism and not in competition with each other. Yet Darwin may have thought so based on limited observations.

So what? You think that particular organism is aware that there is no competition around? The "grow tall to outreach your competitors" thing is a part of the tree's genes. It has no control over it. it's not going to say, "Well gee, I'm here by myself, so I guess I won't grow tall."

If the goal is survival, I get to choose what it means to me.

And that would work fine, if reality was based on what we choose.

No more untrue statement could be said.

Alright then. Please explain how changes in allelle frequency over time leads to the conclusion that we must kill the weak and injured.

Animals naturally abandon those who can't walk.
Geneticist Claims Human Evolution Is Over

Have you actually read the comments on that? And what does that have to do with the idea of animals abandoning those who can't walk?
 
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Tiberius

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Could you please fix your quote tags? You've posted a quote from Hespera but used my name.
 
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Tiberius

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I know exactly how science works. Get a grip.

No you don't. Your ideas of what science is are about as accurate as what people in 1910 France thought life would be like in the year 2000.

Evolution then started at Eden 6000 years ago. You can't take it before that. So let's get the false so called science claims out of here.

I can and I will. I am talking about a purely non-religious view of evolution. Not your religious views. i don't care if you think the Earth is only 6000 years old. if you can't play by the rules, don't play. Don't ruin it for the others in this thread.
 
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dad

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No you don't. Your ideas of what science is are about as accurate as what people in 1910 France thought life would be like in the year 2000.
That's nice.



Here are the rules....there was no same state past, and you cannot prove there was. That kills all your age bunk, and evolving from slime. And it is no game.
 
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Tiberius

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That's nice.

Accurate too.

Here are the rules....there was no same state past, and you cannot prove there was. That kills all your age bunk, and evolving from slime. And it is no game.

I am well aware of what the rules are for this thread, as I started it.

Describe things that we would see differently in the world if evolution actually occured.

You have not done so, so would you leave the thread?
 
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dad

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ohh yes. Rely on a thousands of years old book rather then any information required the last couple of centuries.
Information 'required'? You mean acquired? All man acquired is present state info..so??
 
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Darkeonz

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Information 'required'? You mean acquired?

Yeah I meant acquired. English is my 2nd language, so I tend to make mistakes.

All man acquired is present state info..so??

Back in the day we believed the earth was the center of the universe, and that the sun actually moved around the earth. This was proven to be wrong. We believed the earth was flat, we proved this to be wrong. We constantly get new data in that changes how we look at the world. That's why you can't rely on anything thousands of years old without being able to reproduce and test the things that it claims
 
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dad

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Yeah I meant acquired. English is my 2nd language, so I tend to make mistakes.
OK.

Back in the day we believed the earth was the center of the universe, and that the sun actually moved around the earth. This was proven to be wrong.

Yes, in this state! So? The future is coming fast, when the true nature will again be in place.
We believed the earth was flat, we proved this to be wrong.

Speak for yourself. My people never did that.
We constantly get new data in that changes how we look at the world. That's why you can't rely on anything thousands of years old without being able to reproduce and test the things that it claims
False. The data we get is right here! How we look at the past should not be colored by that. Not unless the past was as the present. You do not know that.
 
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Darkeonz

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Yes, in this state! So? The future is coming fast, when the true nature will again be in place.

So that's a prediction based on what?


Speak for yourself. My people never did that.

Of course they did. Nomatter where you are from, at some point your ancestors would have believed the earth was flat, as there would be no way of knowing it was not. If you go back far enough, you'll find ancestors of yours who did

False. The data we get is right here! How we look at the past should not be colored by that. Not unless the past was as the present. You do not know that.

The data is where?
 
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dad

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So that's a prediction based on what?
Based on what has been already demonstrated to be 100% accurate...the bible. No other prediction is worth the sweat on a monkey's armpit.



Of course they did. Nomatter where you are from, at some point your ancestors would have believed the earth was flat, as there would be no way of knowing it was not. If you go back far enough, you'll find ancestors of yours who did
Nope. That is a misconception...question your teachers. They fooled you.

The data is where?
What data??
 
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