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You really need to go back the basics and learn something about biology.nolidad said:Well then we get down down to how mutation is defined,
And the relevance of this is?for immuno support systems are inherent in most sentient creatures. They are part of the genome of the vcreature to protect it from the varied dieases that can inflict that species.
Fine, then the mutation for sickle cell anemia is either and/or both beneficial and harmful, depending on where you live.Well I will accept the definition of evolutionists who define mutations as either neutral, harmful, or beneficial.
As I asked before, what will you accept as "shown"?I still want 10 variations that can be shown to have happened by mutation and preexisitng coding int he genome.
Pick a time any time, we have a nearly continuous record of atomic reactions and nuclear constants for the last 60,000 years in the form of light coming from stars within the Milky Way Galaxy.or that radio decay is not constant
I frequently grind my teeth down to stubs when reading gradeschool and even high school presentations of history and science.a simple question-- are you as hard on evolutionists that write and later are proven wrong or just YECers???
nolidad said:I still want 10 variations that can be shown to have happened by mutation and preexisitng coding int he genome.
nolidad said:. . .
a simple question-- are you as hard on evolutionists that write and later are proven wrong or just YECers???
I'm still confused by what you mean by sentient. For example, slugs and spiders have immuno response, as do plants. Are all these creatures sentient?
You really need to go back the basics and learn something about biology
If as one of the RATE papers you cited suggests 4 billion years of decay had been fit into a single day the natural reactor at the Oklo mine in Gabon and all the rock around it would have gone molten that day.
As I asked before, what will you accept as "shown"?
Did you understand what I wrote on the question?
You continue to claim that Creationists would submit journals, but the evolutionists wouldn't even review it. Until you present evidence supporting this, I stand by my view that Creationists do no scientific research in Creationism as evidenced by the lack of peer reviewed papers in academic journals.
Both of which covered essentially the same ground; PreCambrian fossils of multicellular animals existed; PreCambrian trace fossils such as worm burrows had been found in comparitive abundance and significantly earlier than the animal fossils, those trace fossils could not be connected to the animal fossils; shells and skeletons had not yet evolved so only rarely occuring soft-body fossils are available to be found; the multicellular animal fossils that had been found were unlikely to be the ancestors of Cambrian life.
Willtor said:I'm not hard on anyone who is proven wrong. I have quite a lot of respect for people who publish their hypotheses, even if they are shown wrong. I am never hard on Behe.
I am very hard on people who falsify data and publish with intent to deceive. It doesn't really matter to me what their background might be. If they are evolutionists, shame on them. If they are Christians, double-shame on them. Christians who try to spread the truth through deceit have no moral recourse when their falsehoods are uncovered.
random_guy said:I am the same way. If someone is wrong, and is presented clear evidence of being wrong, but doesn't still accept it, then I am hard on them. However, I applaude any Creationist or Evolutionist that admits that they're wrong.
The problem is, the majority of cases where someone is proven wrong is usually Creationists, and they will almost never admit any error. For example, even AiG admits that Creationists shouldn't use flash frozen mammoths as evidence of a flood, there are no beneficial mutations, Paluxy tracks as evidence of human-dino cohabitation, etc... and yet, even if we point out to them that even AiG says not to use them, Creationists will still ignore us, or they will not accept it as wrong.
What condensed materials are you talking about?nolidad said:Well why don't you down load some of the condensed materials and see for yourself.robert the pilegrim said:If as one of the RATE papers you cited suggests [Edit]1.7[/Edit] billion years of decay had been fit into a single day the natural reactor at the Oklo mine in Gabon and all the rock around it would have gone molten that day.
instead of making presumptious nonfactual suppositions.
First show that that is in the least bit relevant to what I wrote and then provide citations, preferably citations that state the magnitude of the effect.It has already been proven that decay constantes can be alterred and it has been demonstrated.
The evidence all points to the resistance to malaria being a mutation.nolidad said:So now I ask you, are the "mutations that produce insecticide resistence and resistence to malaria errors in replication or simply the immuno defensde systems acting as precoded?
Interesting, do you have a source for that?Especially inlight that some bacteria 100 years ago were already antibiotic resistant before they were even exposed to antibiotics???
nolidad said:So now I ask you, are the "mutations that produce insecticide resistence and resistence to malaria errors in replication or simply the immuno defensde systems acting as precoded? Especially inlight that some bacteria 100 years ago were already antibiotic resistant before they were even exposed to antibiotics???
It has already been proven that decay constantes can be alterred and it has been demonstrated.
I guesss it would be shoe me new information plugged into the genetic code that was not there ( do not show me loss of code) show me a variant not there prior to it happening.
And that is the problem with trying to discriminate between mutations and pre-existing code. How far do you need to go back to show that pre-existing code is not the consequence of a mutation which occurred before it was needed?
Has it also been shown that the conditions which can produce an alteration in decay rates exist or have existed on earth? And has it been shown that the alteration in decay rates would produce the amount of difference (4.5 billion vs. 6-10 thousand years) between old earth and young earth scenarios?
The most clear-cut example I know of is the nylon bug. Shernren gave the reference.
I can't find it... there is another mutation that confers resistance to malaria, it has no downside AFAICRemember. It's distribution suggested a much more recent origin. But no joy in trying to find it.
What "presumptious nonfactual suppositions" are you claiming I am making?
If as one of the RATE papers you cited suggests [Edit]1.7[/Edit] billion years of decay had been fit into a single day the natural reactor at the Oklo mine in Gabon and all the rock around it would have gone molten that day.
Oh, this is nuts, if the decay rate had been accelerated that much, the entire uranium ore layer would have gone critical.
The problem is, the majority of cases where someone is proven wrong is usually Creationists, and they will almost never admit any error. For example, even AiG admits that Creationists shouldn't use flash frozen mammoths as evidence of a flood, there are no beneficial mutations, Paluxy tracks as evidence of human-dino cohabitation, etc... and yet, even if we point out to them that even AiG says not to use them, Creationists will still ignore us, or they will not accept it as wrong.
nolidad said:random guy writes:
Well it would appear that the only time you seek to applaud aig is when they bend to your side of the spectrum, but I am sure when they bend to the YEC side you would howl at them all over again.
This is why mutations are called "random". There is no necessary connection between the point in time that a beneficial mutation occurs and the time it becomes needed.
What condensed materials are you talking about?
No where did I applaud them. I was pointing out that the argument was so bad, even a Creationist site won't even use it, and yet, Creationists still use the same arguments.
there is no debate. it is simply the inability to listen to the evidence that is in question.
about 1% of your genome is HERV's, they originate from RV infections in your ancestors. somewhere along the line that dna was not part of that organism's genome. then poof an infection of a germ line and here we are, another HERV added. It is happening today in those infected with HIV, they have cells with HIV genes newly integrated and if it is a germ line cell it can be passed on to their offspring.
nolidad said:Well unfortunately info delivery systems arenb't as efficient with millions of individuals versus a coordinated network between universitiesd so unfortunately many times when something that at first appeared to be "solid evidence" and is later found to be either equivocal or a false start can take many years to work its way out, this is notr only true of YEC/evo materials but many other issues as well.
The problem is, the majority of cases where someone is proven wrong is usually Creationists, and they will almost never admit any error. For example, even AiG admits that Creationists shouldn't use flash frozen mammoths as evidence of a flood, there are no beneficial mutations, Paluxy tracks as evidence of human-dino cohabitation, etc... and yet, even if we point out to them that even AiG says not to use them, Creationists will still ignore us, or they will not accept it as wrong.
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