If Death is Permanent...

[BL2KTN]

If death is permanent...

... does being inanimate for two days and some hours really equal death if you're walking and talking forever afterwards?

 

[Davian]

No.

 

[Resha Caner]

If death is permanent...

... does being inanimate for two days and some hours really equal death if you're walking and talking forever afterwards?

Begging the question.

 

[BL2KTN]

Begging for an answer.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Begging for an answer.

Well he's right...it is begging the question.

Maybe a better question would be about the nature of sacrifice...since I think most of us consider that a loss of some kind.

 

[Resha Caner]

Begging for an answer.

Shrug. Your question seems petty to me, but it's nice to know you'll at least not argue whether you are indeed begging that question.

Define "death" however you please. As you've defined it, the answer is (as Davian has already noted): no. Yippee. I can define flying as "moving through the air using wings" (fly), and yet a baseball hit high into the air is still referred to as a "fly ball", and people know what that means. No one mistakenly assumes the ball has wings.

So, if you're willing to admit Jesus is (as you said) "walking and talking forever afterwards", I'll let you have your definition of death.

 

[BL2KTN]

How do you define death?

 

[agua]

If death is permanent...

... does being inanimate for two days and some hours really equal death if you're walking and talking forever afterwards?

Death is only permanent after judgement ie. the second death is permanent.

Heb 9:27-28 KJV And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (28) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The ransom sacrifice didn't need to be permanent death but simply compensate for what Adam relinquished. Adam also didn't die permanently ( he will be resurrected ). The 3 days is interesting though and some suggest it was the time period after dying that the Jews believed the spirit left the body, never to return, and was also seen in why Jesus didn't resurrect Lazarus until the forth day. Jesus said it was the only sign he'd give to the religious leaders ( the sign of Jonah ).

The most important aspect of Jesus' death was the resurrection, because without it death wasn't defeated and no one would live forever.

 

[ViaCrucis]

How do you define death?

Medically defined? Brain death.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Eudaimonist]

If death is permanent...

As far as I can tell, "permanent" is not part of the definition of death. You can be temporarily dead without contradiction.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[agua]

As far as I can tell, "permanent" is not part of the definition of death. You can be temporarily dead without contradiction.


eudaimonia,

Mark

True. From a Biblical perspective destruction ( apoleia ) is akin to "permanent death"

 

[Colter]

If death is permanent...

... does being inanimate for two days and some hours really equal death if you're walking and talking forever afterwards?

* the former mortal tabernacle of Jesus is what died, he returned in a different, non carbon form which was appearing and vanishing in locked rooms.

* the Christian interpretation of Jesus as a human sacrifice for sins was NOT the original gospel.

* for those who do not want to resurrect in the next life, who completely reject the Fathers plan, their transcripts are obliterated, they are not given a new form, it becomes as if they never lived.

 

[stevevw]

I think dying and coming back to life is evidence for us having a spirit. The bible says that our bodies are just a vessel for our spirits. The body can be killed but the spirit can go on. So if someone came back to life this would just be their spirit not going onto the afterlife yet. Either that or they were never really dead. You would have to establish if they were truly dead first. There is some experimental evidence for near death experiences. Even though the heart had stopped and then the brain was suppose to stop some people showed brain activity when dead. They spoke of out of body experiences or feeling like they were in another dimension. Then there are the many famous stories of people dying and coming back to life.

Scientists have mentioned that our minds may live on in some way after we die. This is thought from the evidence of what quantum physics is pointing to. That our minds are the creators of our reality. That reality only comes into existence with an observer. This is derived from experiments in quantum physics that show particles can act like waves and particles but will only take a form when they are observed by someone. There are many thought experiments that go with this like Schrodinger's cat which poses that the cat in the box can be alive and dead at the same time and other things like quantum suicide. Then there is talk of multiverses and hologram dimensions that maybe outside our own reality and realm. Scientists are saying that what we see and experience may only be one dimension. There maybe others that we cant see. So if science is even thinking along these lines then maybe there is something to it.

So if God is the creator of all things then He is the architect of the quantum world. All scientists are doing is looking into Gods creation. They are peering into the point of where something comes from nothing into existence. So what happens at that point is pretty crazy stuff. Particles existing in more than one form and popping in and out of existence. Being able to be in more than one place at a time. Maybe Jesus dying and coming back to life and walking through walls and all that was just Him playing around with particles. Popping them in and out of existence. Afterall He is the creator and controller of it all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide_and_immortality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat
http://www.cnet.com/au/news/scientist-quantum-physics-can-prove-theres-an-afterlife/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...veals-awareness-continue-brain-shut-down.html

 

[essentialsaltes]

If death is permanent...

... does being inanimate for two days and some hours really equal death if you're walking and talking forever afterwards?

If death is permanent, then resurrection is impossible, so in this sense you're begging the question.

Now, if someone died (medically dead) for two days and some hours, and sprang back to life, I would say that equals death during that time.

Getting down to cases, if we're talking about Jesus, and Jesus is God, I don't think the Christian position is that all of God was dead during that time. Just the Jesus part. Except that Jesus isn't a part of God, he is God. He and the father are one. But Jesus was dead, but God the father was NOT dead. Because someone had to resurrect Jesus, and if God was dead, he couldn't resurrect himself. Anyway, I think there's some questions here, but largely they have to do with the incoherency of the trinity.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed. It is not the place for General Apologetics.