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I'm not splitting hairs. A guy saying something happened is not enough to agree that it happened. A guy saying he had a vision might be believable but that it was actually not a stroke requires more ... especially if want me to up end my life over it.Haaa! I did chuckle, no offence, but you are starting to split hairs on this. I am sure you know someone who wrote down a story as an adult about their boyhood experience? Hint..hint.
Got it.Paul either simply made it up, or he genuinely hallucinated that Jesus spoke to him.
As to "witnesses" to the experience, Paul and/or Luke simply made it up to make the story sound better.
Sorry, but if you think quoting a miracle story from the Bible is "historical proof" that God exists, you're quite mistaken.
Got it.I'm not splitting hairs. A guy saying something happened is not enough to agree that it happened. A guy saying he had a vision might be believable but that it was actually not a stroke requires more ... especially if want me to up end my life over it.
Almost certain Hinduism can actually substantiate all of that, though the swath of texts to go through makes it a bit trickier, but Hindu thought easily predates Christinaity, if not Judaism as well. Diversity within a unity...never heard of the monistic thought in Hinduism?
mm: Seems to me you're just looking for stuff that's "common" and then pointing out how "only Christianity" is claiming those things with a pretty narrow viewpoint, to say nothing of speaking in a manner that isn't remotely humble or rational.
mm: The fact that Christianity or Islam or Hinduism may agree with things we have substantive evidence for is not evidence that the faith worldview is remotely true in itself, that's incidental and correlative, not causative or demonstrable, because someone can be correct even if everyone thinks they're insane, but they can also be sane and still be wrong, it's not a matter of credibility in the sense of someone trusting them, it's whether their claims can be substantiated and demonstrated in a meaningful manner that's not subject to vacuous interpretations of ambiguity
Dude. He's a God. He can do anything He likes.Allah is unlikely to be the Creator of this universe. He is a pure unity and therefore would unlikely to be able to understand diversity or create it.
So what? Again, He's God. He can do anything He likes.He also is unable to have a personal relationship with humans because mainstream Islam does not believe that humans are made in His image like the Christian God.
Well, that might be true, if the Christian God was real. But since Allah is the One True God, the question doesn't arise, does it? No matter how amazing a character is in a story, that doesn't make him real.But the very nature of the Triune Christian God, a diversity within a unity, matches the fundamental characteristic of the universe so most likely that is His fingerprint on it to reveal Himself as its creator.
This is one of the clearest cases of the pot calling the kettle black that I have ever seen.There are also serious problems with morality in Islam, such as the Koran allowing the beating of your wife.
"We know Christianity is true. It says so in the Bible."Christianity deems itself the true religion as defined by one of its own books:
Mainstream Hinduism teaches that ultimately ALL is ONE. Diversity is just an illusion. The difference is Christianity teaches that diversity is real and common sense tells us that also. And yet the evidence says that there most likely is only one universe. So Christianity fits reality and everyday real experience better.
Mainstream Hinduism teaches that ultimately ALL is ONE. Diversity is just an illusion. The difference is Christianity teaches that diversity is real and common sense tells us that also. And yet the evidence says that there most likely is only one universe. So Christianity fits reality and everyday real experience better.
I apologize if I dont sound humble, probably just an artifact of my writing style. See above, where I rationally explain a significant difference between Christianity and Hinduism.
Islam and Hinduism have serious problems explaining fundamental aspects of reality. See above for one problem with Hinduism and there are other serious problems with it regarding morality. Allah is unlikely to be the Creator of this universe. He is a pure unity and therefore would unlikely to be able to understand diversity or create it. He also is unable to have a personal relationship with humans because mainstream Islam does not believe that humans are made in His image like the Christian God. But the very nature of the Triune Christian God, a diversity within a unity, matches the fundamental characteristic of the universe so most likely that is His fingerprint on it to reveal Himself as its creator. There are also serious problems with morality in Islam, such as the Koran allowing the beating of your wife.
He encountered what he believed to be Jesus, that isn't sufficient to conclude that his experience reflected reality. And his motive is irrelevant when we see that his shift is just a different form of zealotry than before rather than being reasonable and then becoming unreasonableSaul of Tarsus, a persecutor of Christians, encountered the
resurrected Christ. He had no motive to claim such an encounter if it had never occurred.
He encountered what he believed to be Jesus, that isn't sufficient to conclude that his experience reflected reality.
Irrelevant: someone can have experiences they credulously believe reflect reality and change their perspective, that says nothing about reality as it can be reasonably assessed by a person not undergoing some hallucination or delusion as Paul may very well have sufferedPerhaps not to you but the reality is that his encounter had to have been pretty dramatic to voluntarily change from being a persecutor to persecuted. What do you suppose other then perhaps instant insanity would prompt a rational human being to change to the side both he and those he was with, were trying to eradicate?
And his motive is irrelevant when we see that his shift is just a different form of zealotry than before rather than being reasonable and then becoming unreasonable
I intend to post this question and see what people say. I don't want this to become an argument. So, I'll be reading responses but intend to not comment much if at all.
Notes - I acknowledge that some people view multiple religions as diifferent views on the same reality so that more than one religion can be true. This question is not for them.
Also - if anyone wants to convince me then they'll need to point out something that believers in other religions can't claim for their own religion. Or, the question will not have been answered.
And - I'm looking for something objectively observable. Belieivers having feelings and experiences again will not answer the question as believers of many religions have those.
EDIT: Unfortunately I spotted the read and agree thread after I posted this. I'll edit my post to make it more compliant.
Specifically I need to include an argument as to why Christianity may be false.
If there is a true religion, then it should clearly stand out as being different from the others, as its teachings will be true, not heavily distorted or downright wrong like other religions. I don't see any religion which stands out as being diifferent from others, and hence that for me is evidence that all religions are man-made, and none is true. Hence, I take that as evidence that Christianity is true.
My purpose in this thread is for Christians to have the opportunity to argue that Christianity is clearly different from other religions in a way that shows true divine guidance.
You ask an amusing question, not considering that I don't consider God a coherent or cogent concept (see my threads on those topics that I need to revisit eventually). It's not about evidence necessarily for me, it's bringing forth a concept that is rational in the first place and not just exercising special pleading, magical thinking and otherwise irrational unfalsifiable ideas like Christianity requires.Think about it before you post. What would it take for you or some of the other resident atheists to suddenly switch from being an enemy of Christ to being His biggest promoter in spite of all the hardships Paul went through. Would it take anything less than a very personal and dramatic encounter with Jesus Himself?
That's a loaded question and irrelevant: the unique nature of claims does not lend more credence to the claims, they need to be substantiated themselvesWhat other religion has their god suffered for his followers?
"We know Christianity is true. It says so in the Bible."
That's a loaded question and irrelevant: the unique nature of claims does not lend more credence to the claims, they need to be substantiated themselves
Got it.He encountered what he believed to be Jesus, that isn't sufficient to conclude that his experience reflected reality. And his motive is irrelevant when we see that his shift is just a different form of zealotry than before rather than being reasonable and then becoming unreasonable
Uh-huh. So what?What other religion has their god suffered for his followers?
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