If being homosexual is a sin, then why did God create homosexuals?

BigBadWlf said:

Why would you or anyone assume that married gays/lesbians have or want a “husband”/“wife?

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Why would they want to be married? Grown men and women can certainly do what they want, they just have no right to change definitions to suit what they have chosen to do. A marriage is the bond between a man and a woman that establishes a husband and wife/father and mother. Anything other is perversion of terminology.

LittleNipper said:

Why would they want to be married? Grown men and women can certainly do what they want, they just have no right to change definitions to suit what they have chosen to do. A marriage is the bond between a man and a woman that establishes a husband and wife/father and mother. Anything other is perversion of terminology.

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Then my marriage is a perversion of that terminology. I did not get married to establish a bond or relationship. That bond already existed. I did not get married so that I could have sex, children, or to seek approval. I got married for the legal protections. End of story.

LittleNipper said:

Homosexuality is ungodly, unrighteous, unrewarded... <staff edit>

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Whoah!! You know, right now I hold the view that homosexuality is in contradiction to the word of God, but it is no more in contradiction than heterosexual adultery or in screwing around when you aren't married, or than a million and one other things that I've done and you've done and everyone else has done!

Cripes!! No wonder BBW and others are so reactionary.

IzzyPop said:

Then my marriage is a perversion of that terminology. I did not get married to establish a bond or relationship. That bond already existed. I did not get married so that I could have sex, children, or to seek approval. I got married for the legal protections. End of story.

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Hey Izzy - your post raised a question I've wondered about. What is the difference between marriage and civil union, as far as protections go?

IzzyPop said:

Then my marriage is a perversion of that terminology. I did not get married to establish a bond or relationship. That bond already existed. I did not get married so that I could have sex, children, or to seek approval. I got married for the legal protections. End of story.

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So get a lawyer and sign a pact. You will have legal protection and will not have contributed to the undermining of marriage. More honest story.

Flibbertigibbet said:

Whoah!! You know, right now I hold the view that homosexuality is in contradiction to the word of God, but it is no more in contradiction than heterosexual adultery or in screwing around when you aren't married, or than a million and one other things that I've done and you've done and everyone else has done!

Cripes!! No wonder BBW and others are so reactionary.

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I never said it was; however, the topic is homosexuality. That sin was selected as the topic for this thread.

LittleNipper said:

<staff edit>

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natural means animalistic.

You just said homosexauality is un-natural.

edit: I don't know if it my place but, could we keep the "father of lies" term to the minimum. Satan. Would be preferable.

LittleNipper said:

Why would they want to be married?

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The very same reasons heterosexual couples get married

Grown men and women can certainly do what they want, they just have no right to change definitions to suit what they have chosen to do. A marriage is the bond between a man and a woman that establishes a husband and wife/father and mother. Anything other is perversion of terminology.

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You mean like how you are trying to change the definition of a word to help you justify prejudice and discrimination?
They tried it a generation ago to keep interracial marriage illegal…it didn’t work then

LittleNipper said:

So get a lawyer and sign a pact. You will have legal protection and will not have contributed to the undermining of marriage. More honest story.

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And blacks of the deep south should have been happy having their own drinking fountains and having to enter the back of restaurants


Go read about Brown vs. the Board of Education

LittleNipper said:

Why would (gays/lesbians) want to be married?

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Well, y'see, what happens is two people meet and there's a spark of mutual attraction and over time they get to know each other and spend time together and fall in love with each other and decide that they'd like to make a public demonstration of that mutual love by solemnising it in front of their families and friends (and, if they believe, in front of their God/gods/goddess/etc).

And some people still believe that it matters that the two people are of different genders, but fortunately there's an increasing amount of people who realise that actually, it doesn't matter a jot if the couple are man and woman, or two men, or two women.

David.

Homosexuality is ungodly, unrighteous, unrewarded... <staff edit>

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You say ungodly like it's a bad thing. /smirk. And for unrewarded? What are people, circus animals set to prance about waiting on a treat? I'm just going to assuming you're inserting random possibly negative adjectives so you can say "homo bad homo BAD!!! *caveman voice*" and not much else.

And you've yet to establish that homosexuality is "animalistic to the extreme."

Why would they want to be married? Grown men and women can certainly do what they want, they just have no right to change definitions to suit what they have chosen to do. A marriage is the bond between a man and a woman that establishes a husband and wife/father and mother. Anything other is perversion of terminology.

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Marriage once meant in more places, and still does in others a pre arraigned marraige in which neither bride nor groom had any opportunity for a choice in the matter, set up by their parents. And it didn't matter how abuse or loveless the marriage was, it was marraige and anything else was a perversion of the terminology.

Things change..dare I say......evolve!!! /smirk.

Get with the times, it's the 20th century, not the 12th.

unkern said:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20010509/ctvnews88910?s_name=&no_ads=

Homosexuals arnt born neither are murderers born they are made that way, the devil perverts that which is good.

Leviticus 20:13 says:

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Homosexuality is a sin, did you know that the average age of death for homosexuals is about 45?

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That statistic is not true. See Boxturtlebulletin.com for an exposure of this popular lie.

soul_on_fire said:

People can't choose their sexuality, it's just the way they are.
Why did God create people like that and then not allow them to express their feelings?
What's wrong with being homosexual anyway?
If two people find true love does it really matter that they're of the same gender?
Isn't discriminating homosexual couples like discrimination couples with a large age gap or of different nationalities?
Just like your sexuality, you can't decide when you were born or where you were born, yet different ages and nationalities are acceptable.
Myself, I am not homosexual, but I just don't understand why homosexuality is not acceptable.

Thanks for answers

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God creates people, people act certain ways, whether they engage in homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, transexual, bestial, celibate choices is exactly that a choice, unless it is nonconsenting, and then it is a crime.

Flibbertigibbet said:

Hey Beanie - good to hear from you. I wasn't implying that one takes a feminine role and the other the masculine.

I was asking how Christian homosexuals interpret and apply Ephesians - since it specifically states "husbands" and "wives." Sorry if that wasn't clear.

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You weren't following what I said.
When I said, "We don't have to choose (who is the woman and who is the man)", I mean that we don't have to choose gender roles. One of us doesn't have to be expected to earn money, and the other expected to do all the cleaning. One doesn't have the last word just because of his sex organs. It is much more of a partnership.

Heterosexuals have asked me, "well, does he bring you flowers, or..do you bring him flowers? Who leads when you dance???" Heterosexuals have been programmed to follow their roles to the T. Boys don't cry, girls shouldn't be strong or like sports. Boys like blue, girls like pink. So, when suddenly the see two men together, they can't understand how their societal roles compute. Who leads? Whomever wants to. There is even an amazing scene in The Man of My Dreams where two men dance the Tango, changing the leader roles. But for heterosexual men, who criticize each other by calling them a "woman", this is degrading, because they see being a woman degrading itself. When you suggest that that gay men define their own roles, and can dance, sing, and decorate, or go play on a softball team, who is not expected to play a role, but allowed to be themselves and create their own roles, and even change them, it's like watching a movie where a robot is allowed to think for the first time in his life, and it frightens him.

In heterosexual relationships, often, the man will think "women's work" beneath him, and barely lift a finger to help his wife. Sometimes, the woman will look to Ephesians (if this is what you are referring to, where women are to submit to their husbands), and unable to make a decision on their own. However, more and more, men and women are making their marriages equal, a balance of work from both, support from both, child rearing from both, and coming to agreements when making decisions together, rather than one of dominant and submissive roles from archaic verses that found nothing disturbing about seeing their wife as property to be owned, and not a spirit to be honored.

Christians don't make burnt sacrifices, nor annoint their guests' heads with oil, or offer to bathe their feet when they come for dinner, and allow women to speak in church despite the command for them to keep silent, so I've never quite understood how one can look to this kind of passage, and then think it specifically applicable to modern day life. In a time that had no concept of homosexuality, but rather understood homosexual acts the same as a man having a 3 way - not an orientation, but an act, and a concept that we hadn't even come to grips with until that last 40 years or so, it would be foolish for me to think the bible would speak same-sex loving marriages the same way it would be for me to think that the bible speaks Civil Rights. It speaks of slavery, of how to treat your slaves, but most people believe slavery to be an immoral institution, and no one in the US would condone it, despite its mention in the bible.

One shouldn't foolishly read the bible, and obey it blindly and create their own restrictions, and in so, go backward in their spiritual evolution to the beliefs, understandings, superstitions, and morality of a people that lived 2000 years ago. As with the issue of slavery, one simply needs to weigh it against culture of the time, understanding of the time, and modern day common sense, to understand what is moving forward, and what is m moving back. In terms of unions, men and women enter into marriage as two equals, unlike the bible, and such is the same for two people of the same sex, one would assume, because the idea of women being lower than, the double standard that grants men promiscuity while condemning it in women, etc., was never created by gay men, because they don't have the need to control women as heterosexual men do. But, we have hope for them.

Regarding sexual orientation being chosen or not: I can ASSURE you that it is not chosen, any more than one chooses their skin colour, gender or the number of fingers on their hands. I did NOT choose to be gay. But I am.

I also used to believe that anti-gay-Jesus would "cure" me of my "homosexual demons." He didn't. I prayed, I fasted, I screamed, I cried... I stayed gay. I was miserable for years, which, in retrospect, was completely unfair to me. I'm not even 20.

I accepted my sexual orientation a few months ago, and my life is different now. I feel so much better about who I am. I still love God, and I'm still loved by God. Does the Lord make people homosexuals? I think so.

aotn said:

Regarding sexual orientation being chosen or not: I can ASSURE you that it is not chosen, any more than one chooses their skin colour, gender or the number of fingers on their hands. I did NOT choose to be gay. But I am.

I also used to believe that anti-gay-Jesus would "cure" me of my "homosexual demons." He didn't. I prayed, I fasted, I screamed, I cried... I stayed gay. I was miserable for years, which, in retrospect, was completely unfair to me. I'm not even 20.

I accepted my sexual orientation a few months ago, and my life is different now. I feel so much better about who I am. I still love God, and I'm still loved by God. Does the Lord make people homosexuals? I think so.

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Answer this what sexual orientation are those who stay celibate?

Godzman said:

Answer this what sexual orientation are those who stay celibate?

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Some of us are straight; some of us are gay; some of us are bisexual. And some of us have so little sex drive as be almost asexual.

I was almost fifty before I knew for certain what my orientation was. And even now it is more like a stronger appreciation for certain body types than others than a "sexual" attraction.

Godzman said:

Answer this what sexual orientation are those who stay celibate?

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Sexual orientation is how one is attracted.
Celibacy is simply refraining from any sexual activity regardless of the sexual orientation.
Are you implying that nuns and priests are gays and lesbians? Or just ignorant about celibacy and how it completely differs from sexual orientation? Are you ignorant that heterosexual boys will try desparately to lose their virginity as soon as they can to prove their heterosexual manhood, and brag about the number of women they bed? Or are you trying to hide the elephant in the room by pointing in another direction, and telling homosexuals that they should live a life of celibacy, while heterosexuals can't even remain celibate until marriage, let alone the end of high school or college, and asking homosexauls to do something heterosexuals cannot?

One has choice about whether they want to act upon their sexual orientation, buut they have no choice about the orientation itself.

Most heterosexuals will talk about the "spark" that is either there or isn't there with someone of the opposite sex. Sometimes, despite being the opposite sex, there is no attraction. You can date the person, "learn to love" them, but it is nothing like the person you see across the room, are enchanted by, can't stop thinking about, etc.

You can't "choose" to fall in love like that either. It's either there, or it isn't.

Were there a woman whom your parents wanted you to marry, whom you liked, but were not in love with, and another whom you were madly in love with, would die for, dreamt about, you could choose to marry the first woman. Yes, you have that kind of choice. It would be a choice to make others happy, instead of yourself, but ironically, you wouldn't be happy, nor would you wife whom you never really loved, and you unhappy marriage wouldn't make your parents happy either.

So, most of us follow our heart, and are drawn to those whom we love, whether it is two men, a man who is marrying a woman that can't have children or two people two old to have children, because it is deeper than simply having mini-mes.The people want to share their lives together. They want to love and be loved.

Is this a foreign concept to you?

Beanieboy said:

Sexual orientation is how one is attracted.
Celibacy is simply refraining from any sexual activity regardless of the sexual orientation.
Are you implying that nuns and priests are gays and lesbians? Or just ignorant about celibacy and how it completely differs from sexual orientation? Are you ignorant that heterosexual boys will try desparately to lose their virginity as soon as they can to prove their heterosexual manhood, and brag about the number of women they bed? Or are you trying to hide the elephant in the room by pointing in another direction, and telling homosexuals that they should live a life of celibacy, while heterosexuals can't even remain celibate until marriage, let alone the end of high school or college, and asking homosexauls to do something heterosexuals cannot?

One has choice about whether they want to act upon their sexual orientation, buut they have no choice about the orientation itself.

Most heterosexuals will talk about the "spark" that is either there or isn't there with someone of the opposite sex. Sometimes, despite being the opposite sex, there is no attraction. You can date the person, "learn to love" them, but it is nothing like the person you see across the room, are enchanted by, can't stop thinking about, etc.

You can't "choose" to fall in love like that either. It's either there, or it isn't.

Were there a woman whom your parents wanted you to marry, whom you liked, but were not in love with, and another whom you were madly in love with, would die for, dreamt about, you could choose to marry the first woman. Yes, you have that kind of choice. It would be a choice to make others happy, instead of yourself, but ironically, you wouldn't be happy, nor would you wife whom you never really loved, and you unhappy marriage wouldn't make your parents happy either.

So, most of us follow our heart, and are drawn to those whom we love, whether it is two men, a man who is marrying a woman that can't have children or two people two old to have children, because it is deeper than simply having mini-mes.The people want to share their lives together. They want to love and be loved.

Is this a foreign concept to you?

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I just asked because I am celibate, single and have not had sex before marriage. Not it is not foriegn, but in 24 years I have never been madly in love with any sex. I like women, I am attracted to women but I don't engange in heterosexual behavoir, I'm celibate, I have dated and at that time I engaged in those behavoirs but right now I am not currently seeing anyone. If i never engage in sexual behavoirs my true sexuality would never have to be known, correct.

I am just saying some of us hetero's will not get married and that is fine and that is fine for gays and bisexuals too. Because this is really about that, our spiritual walk with Christ. We our all in his image, you, me and those who are different. I believe sin is sin but God is God and he is faithful to love and deliver us from our temptations no matter what they are.