IDF proven "not guilty"- again.

[ContraMundum]

The untold story of Gaza (and Haditha?) [Excerpts]

The story was everywhere and was everywhere the same.
On June 9, Israel had fired a rocket onto a Gaza beach killing seven
picnicking Palestinian civilians. The New York Times carried a huge,
front-page picture of a 12-year-old girl weeping as she searched for her
father's body in the sand (the photo was excerpted from video that has been
broadcast around the world). CBS News reported, "The ruling Hamas group
fired a barrage of homemade rockets at Israel on Saturday, hours after
calling off a truce with Israel in anger over an artillery attack that
killed seven civilians in Gaza." The New York Times characterized it this
way: "Hamas fired at least 15 Qassam rockets from Gaza into Israel on
Saturday, ending a tattered 16-month truce with Israel, a day after eight
Palestinians were killed on a Gaza beach, apparently by an errant Israeli
shell." CNN went even further, explaining that "Hamas' rocket attacks were
prompted by a string of Israeli attacks, including an artillery shell blast
that killed at least seven Palestinians picnicking on a northern Gaza beach
on Friday."


Just another brutal attack on civilians by the Israel Defense Forces? So we
are invited to conclude. But the IDF, after initially apologizing and
offering assistance to the families of those killed, has now investigated
and concluded that the explosion was not caused by an Israeli shell. Full
stop.


The Israelis say the explosion on the beach may have been caused by a land
mine placed there by Palestinians to thwart any Israeli assault, or possibly
by unexploded ordnance from an earlier skirmish. According to the Israelis,
shrapnel taken from the bodies of victims did not match Israeli shells but
looked more like bomb fragments.


Another glaring missing ingredient to the media coverage is what happened
before Israel fired on Gaza (Israel acknowledges aiming at terrorists in a
different area of Gaza that day). In the 10 months since Israel withdrew
from Gaza, some 1,000 missiles have been fired at Israel from Gaza. More
than 800 have hit the country. Just in the month of May, more than 30 Qassam
rockets were fired at Israel from the Gaza Strip. On May 21, a Qassam
slammed into a classroom in Sderot ‹ it was empty as the children were at
synagogue. On May 16, a Katyusha landed in a farm. On May 31, four Qassams
struck Sderot (Hamas has vowed to make that town of 20,000 into a
graveyard). One hit an apartment building wounding two. On April 17, a
suicide bomber killed 11 and wounded more than 70 when he exploded his bombs
in a Tel Aviv cafe.

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/charen061606.php3

 

[Treppers]

Gaza families watch in awe and fear as Israelis pour in 300 shells a day

· Minister defends daily barrage bill of £125,000
· Palestinian girl 15th to be killed in Gaza since Friday

Conal Urquhart in Beit Lahiya, Gaza
Wednesday April 12, 2006
The Guardian

The Israeli government said yesterday it would continue its bombardment of northern Gaza with an estimated 300 shells a day despite international criticism over the death of a young girl.
Shaul Mofaz, the defence minister who is touring Israel's borders with Gaza, said: "As long as it's not quiet here [in Israel], it won't be quiet there [in Gaza]."

Israeli forces have been firing shells close to Palestinian communities to stop militants from firing rockets at Israeli communities. The army continued to bombard the outskirts of Beit Lahiya yesterday, but Palestinian militants fired their homemade missiles from different residential areas, which they believe are safe from Israeli reprisals.

Kim Howells, the Foreign Office minister, condemned the killing of the girl, Hadeel Ghabeen, whose home in Beit Lahiya was hit by two shells on Monday, and asked the Israeli government to exercise maximum restraint.

"Israel has the right to defend itself, but any actions in the occupied territories must be proportionate andin accordance with international law. Equally, we urge the Palestinian Authority to take steps to halt all attacks launched at Israeli targets from the Gaza Strip," he said.

Ghabeen, believed to be aged between four and 12, was the 15th Palestinian to be killed in Gaza since Friday in shell and air attacks.

Israel has been firing about 300 shells a day at Gaza at an estimated cost of more than £125,000 a day, according to the Israeli media.

Palestinian militants have fired about 50 missiles at Israel in the past month without causing serious injury.

Yesterday the residents of Al Nader towers, the highest point in northern Gaza, were nervously watching the one-sided artillery duel. Israeli artillery announced itself with a low thud in the east followed by the overhead whistle of a shell.

People hunched their shoulders for protection but then saw an eruption of dust in the valley half a mile below and to the west, followed by a noise like a thunder clap. The Israelis were targeting a field between Beit Lahiya and the sewage works.

Those watching admired the accuracy of the Israeli gunners as shell after shell landed within metres of the last. [Tells you something about when they hit civilians, huh?]

As groups of young men watched the spectacle, women put out washing and trucks arrived to sell cucumbers and tomatoes for 5 shekels (60p) a box. The vegetables are normally sold for export via Israel for 78 shekels (£10), but when the goods terminal is closed they have to be sold at a price that Gazans can afford.

Then a sudden scream emerged from behind the towers and a Palestinian rocket headed towards Israel. Its vapour trail disappeared in seconds and it did not seem to make its destination. The streets quickly cleared. No one had seen who fired it but no one was going to wait for an Israeli response. A Red Cross vehicle waited nearby for permission from the Israelis to see what damage they had caused.

Abdel Rahim Ghanaim, 48, runs a shop at the edge of what is considered the safe part of Beit Lahiya. He and his extended family have spent the past two weeks sleeping outside their home in the hope that will protect them from Israeli shells. Mr Ghanaim said: "We are not sleeping and during the day there is no business. No one is passing here so no one is buying."

Said Judah, director of the Beit Lahiya Hospital, said that apart from Monday, when the young girl was killed and 12 members of her family injured, he had received about five minor casualties a day. "It is not like the days of the Israeli incursions but it is very damaging for people psychologically."


So Israel fires a mere 300 shells per day killing children, Hamas or whoever fire 50 per day and cause no serious injury. Please also see my reply to the other thread. The only people exhonerating the IDF are the IDF.

 

[applepowerpc]

The only people exhonerating the IDF are the IDF.

Very true. And that *is* happening. The IDF engages in information warfare to hide its wrongdoing on a regular basis. There are people in the IDF with that very official function.

 

[ContraMundum]

Very true. And that *is* happening. The IDF engages in information warfare to hide its wrongdoing on a regular basis. There are people in the IDF with that very official function.

Well, you'd have to prove that allegation before we all jump on your bandwagon.

Anyway, suppose you're right (and I wouldn't have a problem with that- political apologetics is a good thing for a country to do to defend itself from false propaganda)- Do you think there is a country on the face of the planet that doesn't engage in propaganda or counter-propaganda? Why pick on Israel and not on Hezbollah? Oh......that's right....there's Jews in Israel.

 

[applepowerpc]

Why can Israel do no wrong and every stinking thing they do is "fighting terrorism" or "defending themselves"? Oh that's right...there's Jews in Israel. By definition that makes them right.

 

[ContraMundum]

Why can Israel do no wrong and every stinking thing they do is "fighting terrorism" or "defending themselves"? Oh that's right...there's Jews in Israel. By definition that makes them right.

a) No one is saying Israel can do no wrong. You can still have lots of problems and be a good country. See: USA, UK, etc.

b) They have the fight to defend themselves, like any country. I see nothing wrong with that- do you?

c) They do have a terrorism problem in their country, and thus have to take strong measures. I see nothing wrong with that- do you?

d) What's your grand solution to the Mid-East problem?

 

[gwynedd1]

War does not happen without finance. It does not matter what Israel or Hezbollah do. It is what the financiers want to do.
I do mention Israel's misdeeds for the purpose of dispelling the myth of innocence and democracy as if it were better than Islam.
The one's who want war will be the ones who benefit. Right?
Those who want war will use all means to bring it about. Right? They will infultrate the opposition, they will create smoke screens and pre-texts to do it. They have done so in the past.
What a great irony it was that the word Zionist was said to be used as a "smoke screen" by those people trying to point out Israeli deception and as the basis for that accusation was the unlikeyhood of the Israeli deception.
So what some are saying is that there is a subterfuge of anti-Zionism being used within an anti-Jewish network of those conspiring to make Israel look bad with conspiracy theory. This must be false because conspiracy does not seem likey therefore there is conspiracy to make Israel look bad with conspiracy by those that conspire against it. Is this correct?

How to untangle the mess? Who benefits?

Israel and the United States have been caught creating pretexts for war. A prophet is rejected in his own land and a pretext is disbelieved in its own time.

My opinion as has been throughout is that orinary Israelis and Arabs are suffering as the result of another's plans. Also, have I not demonstated that we must choose the conspiracy we think is true.

 

[BarbB]

Very true. And that *is* happening. The IDF engages in information warfare to hide its wrongdoing on a regular basis. There are people in the IDF with that very official function.

Actually, the IDF apologized immediately for the Palestinian deaths on the beach. It was a few days later that they found they were unable to determine that it was their shelling that killed the family. Thus the further investigation.

If the IDF has a fact hiding function, why do they not use it all the time like Hamas and Hezb'allah do?

 

[BarbB]

....My opinion as has been throughout is that orinary Israelis and Arabs are suffering as the result of another's plans. Also, have I not demonstated that we must choose the conspiracy we think is true.

Actually, I can almost agree with your opinion, except that I believe that those plans are arranged to suit God's purposes.

So far as you demonstrating that we must choose the conspiracy we think is true, I do believe that you have demonstrated that you believe in conspiracies.

 

[applepowerpc]

*All* things work together for good, but that doesn't justify what they're doing.

 

[gwynedd1]

Actually, I can almost agree with your opinion, except that I believe that those plans are arranged to suit God's purposes.

So far as you demonstrating that we must choose the conspiracy we think is true, I do believe that you have demonstrated that you believe in conspiracies.

I did hint I am a kind of existentialist. Not of Sartre or Heidegger but then again its founder Kierkegaard was a self proclaimed Christian. Potential does not negate existence. Everything that will come to pass must also come into existence. Why would god send the prophets if it were otherwise.
God's purpose will be fulfilled but who will fulfill it? We need God but he does not need us.

Matt 3
[9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Matt 5
[13] Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
[14] Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
[15] Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Waiting for prophesy to pass is not we are expected to do.

 

[ContraMundum]

God's purpose will be fulfilled but who will fulfill it? We need God but he does not need us.

But God does use us to carry out His plan. Just ask Pharoah. If His plan concerns us, we will be a part of it one way or another, regardless.

Waiting for prophesy to pass is not we are expected to do.

No, but we will be an active part of it if it concerns us.

 

[gwynedd1]

But God does use us to carry out His plan. Just ask Pharoah. If His plan concerns us, we will be a part of it one way or another, regardless.




No, but we will be an active part of it if it concerns us.

I agree.

 

[gwynedd1]

Actually, I can almost agree with your opinion, except that I believe that those plans are arranged to suit God's purposes.

So far as you demonstrating that we must choose the conspiracy we think is true, I do believe that you have demonstrated that you believe in conspiracies.

You know who else did?

"for we are opposed around the world by monlithic and ruthless conspiracy"

JFK. What did he have to worry about? You would have needed to ask him quickly because he was assinated a few months later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvaZ9pXvYTg&search=illuminati

 

[imind]

IDF proven "not guilty"- again

uh, apparently not.

 

[Torah]

Verified through snopes.com at: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/gabriel.asp



*Brigitte Gabriel's** speech at Duke University * (Delivered Oct. 14, 2004)
"I'm proud and honored to stand here today as a Lebanese woman speaking for Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East. As someone who was raised in an Arabic country, I want to give you a glimpse into the heart of the Arabic world.

I was raised in Lebanon where I was taught that the Jews are evil, Israel is the devil, and the only time we will have peace in the Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea.

When the Muslims and Palestinians declared jihad on the Christians in 1975, they started massacring the Christians city after city. I ended up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17, without electricity, eating grass to live, and crawling under sniper bullets to a spring to get water.

It was Israel who came to help the Christians in Lebanon. My mother was wounded by a Muslim shell and was taken into an Israeli hospital for treatment. When we entered the emergency room, I was shocked at what I saw. There were hundreds of people wounded, Muslims, Palestinians, Lebanese Christians, and Israeli soldiers lying on the floor. The doctors treated everyone according to their injury. They treated my mother before they treated the Israeli soldier lying next to her. They didn't see religion, they didn't see political affiliation; they saw people in need and they helped.

For the first time in my life, I experienced a human quality that I know my culture would not have shown to their enemy. I experienced the values of the Israelis, who were able to love their enemy in their most trying moments. I spent 22 days at that hospital; those days changed my life and the way I believe information, the way I listen to the radio or to television. I realized that I was sold a fabricated lie by my government about the Jews and Israel, which was so far from reality. I knew for a fact that if I were a Jew standing in an Arab hospital, I would be lynched and thrown to the ground as shouts of joy of "Allahu Akbar" (God is great) echoed through the hospital and the surrounding streets.

I became friends with the families of the wounded Israeli soldiers, one in particular, Rina, whose only child was wounded in his eyes. One day, I was visiting with her and the Israeli army band came to play national songs to lift the spirits of the wounded soldiers. As they surrounded his bed playing a song about Jerusalem, Rina and I started crying. I felt out of place and started walking out of the room, and this mother held my hand and pulled me back in without even looking at me. She held me, crying, and said, "It is not your fault." We just stood there, crying, holding each other's hands.

What a contrast between her - a mother looking at her deformed, 19-year-old only child and still able to love me, the enemy - and a Muslim mother who sends her son to blow himself up to smithereens just to kill a few Jews or Christians.

The difference between the Arabic world and Israel is a difference in values and character. It's barbarism versus civilization. It's democracy versus dictatorship. It's goodness versus evil.

The intentional murder of Israeli children is legitimized as Palestinian "armed struggle." However, once such behavior is legitimized against Israel, it is legitimized everywhere in the world, constrained by nothing more than the subjective belief of people who would wrap themselves in dynamite and nails for the purpose of killing children in the name of god.

Because the Palestinians have been encouraged to believe that murdering innocent Israeli civilians is a legitimate tactic for advancing their cause, the whole world now suffers from a plague of terrorism, from Nairobi to New York, from Moscow to Madrid, from Bali to Beslan.

They blame suicide bombings on the "desperation of occupation." Let me tell you the truth. The first major terror bombing committed by Arabs against the Jewish state occurred 10 weeks before Israel even became independent. On Sunday morning, February 22, 1948, in anticipation of Israel 's independence, a triple truck bomb was detonated by Arab terrorists on Ben Yehuda Street in what was then the Jewish section of Jerusalem. Fifty-four people were killed and hundreds were wounded.

Thus, it is obvious that Arab terrorism is caused not by "desperation" or "occupation", but by the VERY THOUGHT of a Jewish state.

So many times in history in the last 100 years, citizens have stood by and done nothing, allowing evil to prevail. As America stood up against and defeated communism, now it is time to stand up against the terror of religious bigotry and intolerance. It's time for everyone to stand up and support and defend the State of Israel, which is the front line of the war against terrorism.

Thank you."

 

[gwynedd1]

Verified through snopes.com at:http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/gabriel.asp



*Brigitte Gabriel's** speech at DukeUniversity * (Delivered Oct. 14, 2004)
"I'm proud and honored to stand here today as a Lebanese woman speaking for Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East. As someone who was raised in an Arabic country, I want to give you a glimpse into the heart of the Arabic world.

I was raised in Lebanon where I was taught that the Jews are evil, Israel is the devil, and the only time we will have peace in the Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea.

When the Muslims and Palestinians declared jihad on the Christians in 1975, they started massacring the Christians city after city. I ended up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17, without electricity, eating grass to live, and crawling under sniper bullets to a spring to get water.

It was Israel who came to help the Christians in Lebanon. My mother was wounded by a Muslim shell and was taken into an Israeli hospital for treatment. When we entered the emergency room, I was shocked at what I saw. There were hundreds of people wounded, Muslims, Palestinians, Lebanese Christians, and Israeli soldiers lying on the floor. The doctors treated everyone according to their injury. They treated my mother before they treated the Israeli soldier lying next to her. They didn't see religion, they didn't see political affiliation; they saw people in need and they helped.

For the first time in my life, I experienced a human quality that I know my culture would not have shown to their enemy. I experienced the values of the Israelis, who were able to love their enemy in their most trying moments. I spent 22 days at that hospital; those days changed my life and the way I believe information, the way I listen to the radio or to television. I realized that I was sold a fabricated lie by my government about the Jews and Israel, which was so far from reality. I knew for a fact that if I were a Jew standing in an Arab hospital, I would be lynched and thrown to the ground as shouts of joy of "Allahu Akbar" (God is great) echoed through the hospital and the surrounding streets.

I became friends with the families of the wounded Israeli soldiers, one in particular, Rina, whose only child was wounded in his eyes. One day, I was visiting with her and the Israeli army band came to play national songs to lift the spirits of the wounded soldiers. As they surrounded his bed playing a song about Jerusalem, Rina and I started crying. I felt out of place and started walking out of the room, and this mother held my hand and pulled me back in without even looking at me. She held me, crying, and said, "It is not your fault." We just stood there, crying, holding each other's hands.

What a contrast between her - a mother looking at her deformed, 19-year-old only child and still able to love me, the enemy - and a Muslim mother who sends her son to blow himself up to smithereens just to kill a few Jews or Christians.

The difference between the Arabic world and Israel is a difference in values and character. It's barbarism versus civilization. It's democracy versus dictatorship. It's goodness versus evil.

The intentional murder of Israeli children is legitimized as Palestinian "armed struggle." However, once such behavior is legitimized against Israel, it is legitimized everywhere in the world, constrained by nothing more than the subjective belief of people who would wrap themselves in dynamite and nails for the purpose of killing children in the name of god.

Because the Palestinians have been encouraged to believe that murdering innocent Israeli civilians is a legitimate tactic for advancing their cause, the whole world now suffers from a plague of terrorism, from Nairobi to New York, from Moscow to Madrid, from Bali to Beslan.

They blame suicide bombings on the "desperation of occupation." Let me tell you the truth. The first major terror bombing committed by Arabs against the Jewish state occurred 10 weeks before Israel even became independent. On Sunday morning, February 22, 1948, in anticipation of Israel 's independence, a triple truck bomb was detonated by Arab terrorists on Ben Yehuda Street in what was then the Jewish section of Jerusalem. Fifty-four people were killed and hundreds were wounded.

Thus, it is obvious that Arab terrorism is caused not by "desperation" or "occupation", but by the VERY THOUGHT of a Jewish state.

So many times in history in the last 100 years, citizens have stood by and done nothing, allowing evil to prevail. As America stood up against and defeated communism, now it is time to stand up against the terror of religious bigotry and intolerance. It's time for everyone to stand up and support and defend the State of Israel, which is the front line of the war against terrorism.

Thank you."

These elements are in Israel.

"An order to take part in the evacuation of Jews from their homes in order to give over the land to non-Jews is an order that is against the religion of our holy Torah and forbidden to fulfil," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4137370.stm

And early in August, an Israeli teenager who had deserted from the army in protest at the Gaza pullout shot dead four Israeli Arabs on a bus.

It is so easy to point out Jewish hatred for every act of Islamic hatred.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=6219

It all comes from the same place. We should choose one over the other?

John 8

43: Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45: And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

 

[MezzaMorta]

So the Israeli Defense Forces are clearing the Israeli Defense Forces of this crime.

Please.

There is no shortage of the brutality and murder Israel commits upon the Palestinian people. The only time they make any effort to cover it up is when it catches the attention of the International Media.