Identifying Orthodoxy

[David65]

A Roman Catholic friend told me today about a local congregation which calls themselves Catholic, but is out of communion with the RCC.

I'd really like to get to know an Orthodox church, and have found one that looks interesting. How do I know if they are legitimately Orthodox without insulting the priest?

Here are a couple snippets from their web site:

St. John Chrysostom Antiochian Orthodox Church is a parish of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America and the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East.

St. John Chrysostom Antiochian Orthodox Church was established in York in 1992 under the spiritual guidance of Patriarch Ignatios IV of Antioch in Syria, and his North American representative, Metropolitan Phillip.

This seems OK?

 

[moses916]

Yes... its legit.

 

[jckstraw72]

ive been there. its a great church, the priest is the father of a girl who is an alumni of our local OCF here at PSU.

 

[David65]

Wow! That was fast.

Thank you.

 

[Dust and Ashes]

If they are under Metropolitan Philip, they should be ok. Can you link their site?

 

[moses916]

Site

 

[ThePilgrim]

A Roman Catholic friend told me today about a local congregation which calls themselves Catholic, but is out of communion with the RCC.

I'd really like to get to know an Orthodox church, and have found one that looks interesting. How do I know if they are legitimately Orthodox without insulting the priest?

Here are a couple snippets from their web site:





This seems OK?

Yup, that Church is legitimate

As a general rule, I don't think must priests would be offended by you asking questions to make sure that their Church is canonically/legitimately Orthodox. I imagine any Orthodox priest would be happy to see that you were being careful. He'd also have no reason to hide anything.

If a priest got really flustered at you asking that, that probably would be a bad sign.

Grace and peace,
John

 

[choirfiend]

Oh, yeah, you'll love Fr. Pier!!! That's also the church jckstraw goes to when not at PSU, isnt, jckstraw? Lots of PA folks about; that rocks.

 

[jckstraw72]

That's also the church jckstraw goes to when not at PSU, isnt, jckstraw?

si si

 

[Knee V]

Yup, that Church is legitimate

As a general rule, I don't think must priests would be offended by you asking questions to make sure that their Church is canonically/legitimately Orthodox. I imagine any Orthodox priest would be happy to see that you were being careful. He'd also have no reason to hide anything.

If a priest got really flustered at you asking that, that probably would be a bad sign.

Grace and peace,
John

I agree. If in doubt, just straight up ask. If you get a direct answer of yes, it's probably legit. If they try to get around the question somehow, or say something like, "Well, the word 'canonical' is highly overrated", then it's probably not legit.

 

[Maksim]

One easy way to check if you have any doubt is by looking a church up at http://www.orthodoxyinamerica.org

It doesn't have every church in America supposedly, but if it is there you can bet it's legit. No doubt in this case, but for future reference.

 

[Gnisios]

If they try to get around the question somehow, or say something like, "Well, the word 'canonical' is highly overrated", then it's probably not legit.

With all due respect, 'un-canonical' and 'not recognized' isn't same. I agree there are 'paper' or vagante pseudo-Orthodox Churches out there but let's not put everyone in the same box.

Some of you already know that I'm an Old-Calanderist in communion with ROCOR, and even though we are not 'officialy recognized' (yet) no one ever seriously doubted the validity of our Sacraments. A good article on what is canonical can be found here. Personally, I would like to stay out of this kind of debates but I will beg everyone to respect their fellow Orthodox brothers/sisters who for various reasons belong to the Old-Calendar Tradition. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[eoe]

Not only are they legit but you can find out what street they are located still to this day by looking in your bible.

(Acts 9:8) And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

(Acts 9:9) And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

(Acts 9:10) And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

(Acts 9:11) And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

(Acts 9:12) And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

(Acts 9:13) Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

(Acts 9:14) And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

(Acts 9:15) But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

The "headquarters" for the Antiochian Church is still to this day on the street which is called Straight.

Also.....

The church in Antioch was the first to be called "Christian"

(Acts 11:26) And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

David,

If you would like to learn more about the Antiochian Diocese, you can check out their website at http://antiochian.org/.

In addition to Orthodoxyinamerica.com, here is another website where you can check to see if a Church is Canonical: http://www.scoba.us/

Here is a brief description from their website:

Founded in 1960, the Standing Conference of the Canonical Orthodox Bishops in the Americas (SCOBA), brings together the canonical hierarchs of Orthodox jurisdictions in the Americas.

Hope this helps!

In XC,

Maureen

 

[OIT]

With all due respect, canonical and not recognized isn't same. I agree there are 'paper' or 'vagante' pseudo-Orthodox Churches out there but let's not put everyone in the same box.

Some of you already know that I'm an Old-Calanderist in communion with ROCOR, and even though we are not 'officialy recognized' (yet) no one ever seriously doubted the validity of our Sacraments. A good article on what is canonical can be found here. Personally, I would like to stay out of this kind of debates but I will beg everyone to respect their fellow Orthodox brothers/sisters who for various reasons belong to the Old-Calendar Tradition. Thanks for your understanding.

I second this.

 

[ClementofRome]

As one who is a regular "lurker" can someone shed light on this "legit"/"not legit" issue?

For instance....what about these folks?

http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/index.html

 

[Nickolai]

As one who is a regular "lurker" can someone shed light on this "legit"/"not legit" issue?

For instance....what about these folks?

http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/index.html

Heck no!!! They even ordain women.

 

[Oblio]

As one who is a regular "lurker" can someone shed light on this "legit"/"not legit" issue?

For instance....what about these folks?

http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/index.html

Heterodox.

 

[Nickolai]

With all due respect, 'un-canonical' and 'not recognized' isn't same. I agree there are 'paper' or vagante pseudo-Orthodox Churches out there but let's not put everyone in the same box.

Some of you already know that I'm an Old-Calanderist in communion with ROCOR, and even though we are not 'officialy recognized' (yet) no one ever seriously doubted the validity of our Sacraments. A good article on what is canonical can be found here. Personally, I would like to stay out of this kind of debates but I will beg everyone to respect their fellow Orthodox brothers/sisters who for various reasons belong to the Old-Calendar Tradition. Thanks for your understanding.

Are you TOCOG?

 

[Gnisios]

As one who is a regular "lurker" can someone shed light on this "legit"/"not legit" issue?

For instance....what about these folks?

http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/index.html

The issue of what and who is canonical/un-canonical, from a patristic perspective, is very much complicated and not easy to analyze it fully in a thread. There are many parametres and dimensions we have to consider before 'declaring' someone legit/not legit. We have to go back in history, check the Canon Law, confirm their Apostolic Succession, make sure they uphold the traditional Orthodox testimony/faith, confirm their moral/ethical integrity, examine the reasons of estrangement, apply or not apply economy, etc...etc...etc. Every case is different.

I also need to underline that this issue -fortunately- does not really affect the Orthodox life in Europe as believers here know from their own experience who is a true Orthodox and who isn't. The situation is different in the US where all kind of self-proclaimed 'bishops' and so called 'Orthodox' Churches exist. In every case though, I still beg my brothers/sisters not to draw any conclusions only because a Church or a bishop is listed or not listed in an 'official' website.

As for your link, they are not Eastern Orthodox since their Apostolic Succession comes from the Old Catholic tradition. I'm not even sure they claim to be EO because they use the terms 'orthodox' and 'catholic' to underline the right faith and universal character of the church and not the EO tradition.