T
Thekla
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Yeah right!!!
One Father speaks the whole church has to follow that sounds so familiar does it?
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Icons...
- Thread starter simonthezealot
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Again I never said that, I posted the Epiphanius quote to show some delicious irony, he was an iconoclast and yet your church has an icon of him...
He is probably doing flips in his grave about now.
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One father? the consensus of the earliest Christians certainly leaned in the iconoclastic direction.
One Father speaks the whole church has to follow that sounds so familiar does it?
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Tzaousios
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I see you are back to replying selectively. How do you explain the iconography in the Catacombs? Decoration to make the place a bit more cheery?
Because he and most Protestants are, I would imagine. There is a direct line of succession from the early Proto-Protestants of antiquity to simonthezealot.
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Dorothea
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Well, having done more research, I see where Simon is coming from. It's not correct, but I can see where his ideas came from:
An obvious and important question to ask when examining the validity of the presence and veneration of the Holy Icons in the churches today is whether or not the earliest Christians, roughly those of the first five hundred years of the Church, used iconography and, if so, how they used it. The faith and practice of these earliest Christians is supremely important in deciding correct faith and practice of Christians today as these early Christians lived the closest in time, place, and culture to the Apostles and other first century followers of Christ. Many of the Christians who lived during this period were members of churches which had been directly founded by Apostles and lived in cities mentioned in the Bible. In addition, very importantly, most of the Christians of this period spoke the ancient Greek of the New Testament as their own native language. Recognizing the importance and authority of the early Church, John Calvin wrote:
If the authority of the ancient church moves us in any way, we will recall that for about five hundred years, during which religion was still flourishing, and a pure doctrine thriving, Christian Churches were commonly empty of images. Thus, it was when the purity of the ministry had somewhat degenerated that they were first introduced for the adornment of churches.12
Until fairly recently, Calvin's words here were the common assumption of both Protestants and historians of early Christianity. It was widely believed and taught that the churches of the first several hundred years were largely imageless and that Christians themselves were generally hostile to figurative art, rejecting it as an idolatrous pagan practice. This assumption was largely based on a dearth of archaeological evidence and on a false assumption of Jewish iconophobia coupled with erroneous prooftexting of various early Christian writers' criticisms of the idols of the pagans.
All three bases of the theory of early Christian hostility toward images have been dismantled by the introduction of new evidence throughout the 20th century, and more evidence continues to be uncovered today through archaeological exploration.14 The hole that once existed in physical evidence of the worship of ancient Christians and Jews has now been filled with numerous discoveries throughout the Middle East, Southern and Eastern Europe, and North Africa.
Perhaps the most famous of these discoveries is the ancient city of Dura Europos.15Dura Europos was a diverse city, home to Christians, pagans, and Jews alike, located near the western border of what is now the nation of Syria. While under Roman rule, the city was left abandoned by its inhabitants due to a Sassanian siege in AD 256-257,16preserving for modern archaeologists, who would begin excavating the city shortly after its rediscovery in 1920, a particularly interesting look into the lives of Romans in Syria in the third century.
And of particular interest to us for the purposes of this essay is the church of the city, the oldest Christian church yet discovered, dating to about AD 233.17 Though they are in some rough condition, several examples of early Christian iconography are preserved within the church.18 On the wall near the baptismal font, there is an icon of Christ as the Good Shepherd,19 with Adam and Eve below the figure. On the south wall of the baptistery are icons of St. Photini, better known as “the woman at the well”20 and, to the left of that, an image of the Prophet-King David's fight with Goliath.21 On the north wall of the baptistery are an illustration of the healing of the paralytic22 and a depiction of Christ and St. Peter walking on water.23 A large icon below these depicts three women, probably the Virgin Mary, St. Mary Magdalene, and St. Salome, walking towards what appears to be a tomb, probably a depiction of the cave in which Christ's body was placed after the Crucifixion.24
And the Christians of the city weren't the only ones whose house of worship had lots of images. The Jewish synagogue discovered at Dura Europos, the construction of which was probably finished in about AD 245,25 is filled nearly top to bottom with ornate iconographic depictions of Old Testament events and figures.26 Throughout the dozens of icons present in the synagogue are images of Prophets, such as Moses, David, Ezekiel, and Abraham, symbols such as the Menorah and the Torah Scroll, and depictions of events such as the near-sacrifice of Isaac27 and Moses' reception of the Ten Commandments.28 The synagogue at Dura Europos, though a very striking example because of its excellent preservation, is by no means unique in the ancient world; there are many more synagogues with much more iconographic art which archaeologists have discovered and are still in the process of discovering.29
The abundance of images in these synagogues is especially important to our current purposes as it significantly undermines one of the key pillars of the theory that early Christians were hostile to images, namely, the assumption, which passed unquestioned for quite some length of time, that the early Judaism from which Christianity emerged was aniconic and even iconophobic. Clearly, the opposite was true; Christianity emerged from and grew up alongside a Judaism with a vibrant iconographic tradition.
The statements of early Christians writing against idolatry have been interpreted in the context of this false assumption by many for some time. But, with this new archaeological evidence, including both the synagogues and the church at Dura Europos, new interpretations are necessary. The textual evidence can not continue to be interpreted in a vacuum, but must now be interpreted alongside and within the context of the archaeological evidence.
Why would the early Christians expend so much time and effort arguing so vehemently against the idolatry of the pagans while remaining silent about the idolatry, assuming they considered it to be so, rising up in their midst? Early Christian apologists simultaneously railed against the images of the pagans while attending worship services in churches with images; the only plausible explanation for how to reconcile these two facts is that they must not have considered their own images to be idolatrous.
Additionally, early Christian apologists were never shy about criticizing the Jews for any of even the slightest perceived transgressions;30 if the widespread use of images in the synagogues was viewed by them as idolatrous, why did they never take the opportunity to attack the Jews for this? Why, instead, does it seem that early Christians in fact picked up their art forms and styles from the Jews?31 Contrary to the former allegations of Calvin and his faithful disciples, the introduction of icons into the churches was not the result of later pagan influence upon a weaker Church, but was part of the early Jewish inheritance assumed by the new Christian Faith in its first centuries.
These are questions and conundrums that, because the evidence was unavailable until fairly recently, never occurred to earlier Protestant proponents of iconoclasm like John Calvin and which iconoclasm's modern proponents have yet to sufficiently answer or explain. But these are questions which demand an answer if their views are going to continue to be taken seriously in the light of modern archaeological evidence.
for more:
A Defense of the Holy Icons @ Orthodox Answers
An obvious and important question to ask when examining the validity of the presence and veneration of the Holy Icons in the churches today is whether or not the earliest Christians, roughly those of the first five hundred years of the Church, used iconography and, if so, how they used it. The faith and practice of these earliest Christians is supremely important in deciding correct faith and practice of Christians today as these early Christians lived the closest in time, place, and culture to the Apostles and other first century followers of Christ. Many of the Christians who lived during this period were members of churches which had been directly founded by Apostles and lived in cities mentioned in the Bible. In addition, very importantly, most of the Christians of this period spoke the ancient Greek of the New Testament as their own native language. Recognizing the importance and authority of the early Church, John Calvin wrote:
If the authority of the ancient church moves us in any way, we will recall that for about five hundred years, during which religion was still flourishing, and a pure doctrine thriving, Christian Churches were commonly empty of images. Thus, it was when the purity of the ministry had somewhat degenerated that they were first introduced for the adornment of churches.12
Until fairly recently, Calvin's words here were the common assumption of both Protestants and historians of early Christianity. It was widely believed and taught that the churches of the first several hundred years were largely imageless and that Christians themselves were generally hostile to figurative art, rejecting it as an idolatrous pagan practice. This assumption was largely based on a dearth of archaeological evidence and on a false assumption of Jewish iconophobia coupled with erroneous prooftexting of various early Christian writers' criticisms of the idols of the pagans.
All three bases of the theory of early Christian hostility toward images have been dismantled by the introduction of new evidence throughout the 20th century, and more evidence continues to be uncovered today through archaeological exploration.14 The hole that once existed in physical evidence of the worship of ancient Christians and Jews has now been filled with numerous discoveries throughout the Middle East, Southern and Eastern Europe, and North Africa.
Perhaps the most famous of these discoveries is the ancient city of Dura Europos.15Dura Europos was a diverse city, home to Christians, pagans, and Jews alike, located near the western border of what is now the nation of Syria. While under Roman rule, the city was left abandoned by its inhabitants due to a Sassanian siege in AD 256-257,16preserving for modern archaeologists, who would begin excavating the city shortly after its rediscovery in 1920, a particularly interesting look into the lives of Romans in Syria in the third century.
And of particular interest to us for the purposes of this essay is the church of the city, the oldest Christian church yet discovered, dating to about AD 233.17 Though they are in some rough condition, several examples of early Christian iconography are preserved within the church.18 On the wall near the baptismal font, there is an icon of Christ as the Good Shepherd,19 with Adam and Eve below the figure. On the south wall of the baptistery are icons of St. Photini, better known as “the woman at the well”20 and, to the left of that, an image of the Prophet-King David's fight with Goliath.21 On the north wall of the baptistery are an illustration of the healing of the paralytic22 and a depiction of Christ and St. Peter walking on water.23 A large icon below these depicts three women, probably the Virgin Mary, St. Mary Magdalene, and St. Salome, walking towards what appears to be a tomb, probably a depiction of the cave in which Christ's body was placed after the Crucifixion.24
And the Christians of the city weren't the only ones whose house of worship had lots of images. The Jewish synagogue discovered at Dura Europos, the construction of which was probably finished in about AD 245,25 is filled nearly top to bottom with ornate iconographic depictions of Old Testament events and figures.26 Throughout the dozens of icons present in the synagogue are images of Prophets, such as Moses, David, Ezekiel, and Abraham, symbols such as the Menorah and the Torah Scroll, and depictions of events such as the near-sacrifice of Isaac27 and Moses' reception of the Ten Commandments.28 The synagogue at Dura Europos, though a very striking example because of its excellent preservation, is by no means unique in the ancient world; there are many more synagogues with much more iconographic art which archaeologists have discovered and are still in the process of discovering.29
The abundance of images in these synagogues is especially important to our current purposes as it significantly undermines one of the key pillars of the theory that early Christians were hostile to images, namely, the assumption, which passed unquestioned for quite some length of time, that the early Judaism from which Christianity emerged was aniconic and even iconophobic. Clearly, the opposite was true; Christianity emerged from and grew up alongside a Judaism with a vibrant iconographic tradition.
The statements of early Christians writing against idolatry have been interpreted in the context of this false assumption by many for some time. But, with this new archaeological evidence, including both the synagogues and the church at Dura Europos, new interpretations are necessary. The textual evidence can not continue to be interpreted in a vacuum, but must now be interpreted alongside and within the context of the archaeological evidence.
Why would the early Christians expend so much time and effort arguing so vehemently against the idolatry of the pagans while remaining silent about the idolatry, assuming they considered it to be so, rising up in their midst? Early Christian apologists simultaneously railed against the images of the pagans while attending worship services in churches with images; the only plausible explanation for how to reconcile these two facts is that they must not have considered their own images to be idolatrous.
Additionally, early Christian apologists were never shy about criticizing the Jews for any of even the slightest perceived transgressions;30 if the widespread use of images in the synagogues was viewed by them as idolatrous, why did they never take the opportunity to attack the Jews for this? Why, instead, does it seem that early Christians in fact picked up their art forms and styles from the Jews?31 Contrary to the former allegations of Calvin and his faithful disciples, the introduction of icons into the churches was not the result of later pagan influence upon a weaker Church, but was part of the early Jewish inheritance assumed by the new Christian Faith in its first centuries.
These are questions and conundrums that, because the evidence was unavailable until fairly recently, never occurred to earlier Protestant proponents of iconoclasm like John Calvin and which iconoclasm's modern proponents have yet to sufficiently answer or explain. But these are questions which demand an answer if their views are going to continue to be taken seriously in the light of modern archaeological evidence.
for more:
A Defense of the Holy Icons @ Orthodox Answers
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All of Holy Scriptures when rightly understood support the use of icons.
As someone else said, the problem is unbelief, or misbelief, in the central message of Holy Scriptures, the Incarnation of God; that the chasm between the Divine and the created is bridged, this bridge rising out of the Incarnation.
John 1:14
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Hieromonk [now Bishop] Auxentios
The OT is also rightly understood in light of the Incarnation.
Hieromonk [now Bishop] Auxentios
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Dorothea
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Some more important information on icons and idolatry from the same link above (the first paragraph maybe what Simon was talking about, which is explained quite well in this article):
Before we close this essay, it seems worthwhile to take note of the dangers of excess which can lead us to idolatry, as icons can certainly be made into idols. In part, it may have been some of the abuses and perversions related to iconography in the Middle Ages that inspired Emperor Leo III the Isaurian to launch the Byzantine iconoclast controversy in the first place. For example, there are accounts which indicate that icons may have served as godparents at baptisms on multiple occassions.53
Such abuses and perversions are, as stated, idolatrous; their possibility does not, however, preclude the display and veneration of the Holy Icons altogether, as some iconoclasts would aver. On the contrary, iconoclasts are just as capable of falling into idolatry as are iconodules (that is, those who venerate the Holy Icons). In fact, it may be somewhat easier for an iconoclast to fall into idolatry as he is much more susceptible to the danger of making a false image of God, most likely created in his own image, whereas for the iconodule an image is already present. All the iconodule must do is make certain that he doesn't turn this image into an idol.
Of all the senses, sight is perhaps the most used by and most important to human beings. Images are natural to us. Martin Luther, the founder of the Protestant Reformation, wrote:
I am convinced that it is God's will that we should hear and learn what He has done, especially what Christ suffered. But when I hear these things and meditate upon them, I find it impossible not to picture them in my heart. Whether I want to or not, when I hear of Christ, a human form hanging upon a cross rises up in my heart: just as I see my natural face reflected when I look into water.8
This not only makes the iconoclast's position an inconsistent one, as he places a ban on external images but knows himself incapable of stopping the natural rising up of images in his mind, but also makes it more difficult for him to avoid idolatry. In the Orthodox Christian iconographic tradition, creativity and imagination are strongly discouraged; an iconographer's goal is essentially to copy previous images and, in the few cases in which news ones are needed, to stick as closely to traditional guidelines of color, symbolism, style, etc. as possible. Insofar as he departs from these standards, his quality as an iconographer decreases. In short, iconography is the art of imitation, not innovation.54Iconoclasts, on the other hand, having no traditional image to which to look, are forced to create their own image fresh each time, allowing for the creation of a great variety of false images and the danger of worshiping a false god; this is idolatry.
The Seventh Ecumenical Council, held in the city of Nicaea in 787, in finally giving the Church's official endorsement to iconography in opposition to the Byzantine iconoclasts, was careful with its language and its stipulations on two particularly important points. Here is the relevant portion of the Decree of the Holy Seventh Ecumenical Council:55
We, therefore, following the royal pathway and the divinely inspired authority of our Holy Fathers and the traditions of the Catholic Church (for, as we all know, the Holy Spirit indwells her), define with all certitude and accuracy that just as the figure of the precious and life-giving Cross, so also the venerable and holy images, as well in painting and mosaic as of other fit materials, should be set forth in the holy churches of God, and on the sacred vessels and on the vestments and on hangings and in pictures both in houses and by the wayside, to wit, the figure of our Lord God and Saviour Jesus Christ, of our spotless Lady, the Mother of God, of the honourable Angels, of all Saints and of all pious people. For by so much more frequently as they are seen in artistic representation, by so much more readily are men lifted up to the memory of their prototypes, and to a longing after them; and to these should be given due salutation and honourable reverence, not indeed that true worship of faith which pertains alone to the divine nature; but to these, as to the figure of the precious and life-giving Cross and to the Book of the Gospels and to the other holy objects, incense and lights may be offered according to ancient pious custom. For the honour which is paid to the image passes on to that which the image represents, and he who reveres the image reveres in it the subject represented. For thus the teaching of our holy Fathers, that is the tradition of the Catholic Church, which from one end of the earth to the other hath received the Gospel, is strengthened. Thus we follow Paul, who spake in Christ, and the whole divine Apostolic company and the holy Fathers, holding fast the traditions which we have received.
Note the two portions I have placed in boldface.
First, notice the list of figures which the Council gives permission to depict, namely, Christ, the Theotokos, Angels, Saints, and “pious people.” The Council does not give permission to attempt to depict the divine essence of God (that is, the inner workings of the Trinity) nor the Father and the Holy Spirit. The only Person of the Trinity who can be depicted directly is the Son, the Word of God who became flesh, because He is the only one who has revealed an Image of Himself.
The second portion I have bolded is unequivocal; it is even more unequivocal in the original Greek. The veneration shown to the Holy Icons is not the same as the worship given to the divine nature. You may recall St. John of Damascus' words cited earlier in this essay (section IV):
I do not venerate the matter, but I venerate the Creator of matter, who became matter for me, who condescended to live in matter, and who, through matter accomplished my salvation; and I do not cease to respect the matter through which my salvation is accomplished.45
The Icon itself is not to be confused with the person or Person who is depicted on the Icon. To return to our earlier illustration (section V), this would be the equivalent of preferring a photograph of your wife to actually being with your wife! Or, worse, confusing a photograph of your wife for actually being your wife!
VII - Conclusion
In the course of this essay, we have examined the presence and veneration of the Holy Icons in the light of history, Scripture, and the content of the Christian Faith. It has been shown that,
*to the contrary of what has often been previously supposed, rather than being a later addition to a weaker, less devout Christianity, the iconographic tradition is instead an inheritance assumed by the very earliest Christians from their ancient Jewish forebears.
*in spite of how such passages are often treated, the writings of the early Christians against the idols of the pagans must be interpreted not in a vacuum but in the light of the presence of Christian iconography within the temples within which these individuals worshiped.
*any attempt to eliminate the Holy Icons has necessarily resulted in a de-emphasis of the Incarnation and a resulting step into docetic or semi-docetic Christology.
*veneration of the Holy Icons is not only the historical practice of the Christian Church but, in addition, the only natural response to the presence of the icons.
*although the danger of idolatry exists in an iconographic tradition, iconoclasts are equally if not more capable of falling into idolatry, and the Church in its regulations of the Holy Icons has been careful to avoid the errors which could lead to idolatry.
Early Christians probably began painting Images of Christ, of His Mother, and of holy people in their homes and churches largely as a spontaneous expression of their piety and love for their Lord. Honoring God and commemorating the Saints and events of Christ's life through artistic depictions probably seemed quite natural to them; it was common practice, as we have seen, in the Judaism from which Christianity emerged and to which it still held very close ties. These early Christians probably put little if any thought into the deeper implications and meanings of Christian iconography. And not much changed in these respects until over 700 years into the Christian era with the outbreak of the first-ever movement of iconoclasm within Christianity.
As a result of this movement to destroy and ban the Holy Icons, Christians were forced to take a deeper look at what they had been doing all along and to explore its implications and logical conclusions. What they found is that this practice of iconography which had been natural but largely lacking in deeper meaning thus far was in fact an essential aspect of the Christian Faith without which the primary truths of Christianity would be turned on their head. In short, what had been simply “traditional,” something that had always been done, had become a “Holy Tradition,” itself a central principle of Orthodox Christianity.
http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/defenseofholyicons
Before we close this essay, it seems worthwhile to take note of the dangers of excess which can lead us to idolatry, as icons can certainly be made into idols. In part, it may have been some of the abuses and perversions related to iconography in the Middle Ages that inspired Emperor Leo III the Isaurian to launch the Byzantine iconoclast controversy in the first place. For example, there are accounts which indicate that icons may have served as godparents at baptisms on multiple occassions.53
Such abuses and perversions are, as stated, idolatrous; their possibility does not, however, preclude the display and veneration of the Holy Icons altogether, as some iconoclasts would aver. On the contrary, iconoclasts are just as capable of falling into idolatry as are iconodules (that is, those who venerate the Holy Icons). In fact, it may be somewhat easier for an iconoclast to fall into idolatry as he is much more susceptible to the danger of making a false image of God, most likely created in his own image, whereas for the iconodule an image is already present. All the iconodule must do is make certain that he doesn't turn this image into an idol.
Of all the senses, sight is perhaps the most used by and most important to human beings. Images are natural to us. Martin Luther, the founder of the Protestant Reformation, wrote:
I am convinced that it is God's will that we should hear and learn what He has done, especially what Christ suffered. But when I hear these things and meditate upon them, I find it impossible not to picture them in my heart. Whether I want to or not, when I hear of Christ, a human form hanging upon a cross rises up in my heart: just as I see my natural face reflected when I look into water.8
This not only makes the iconoclast's position an inconsistent one, as he places a ban on external images but knows himself incapable of stopping the natural rising up of images in his mind, but also makes it more difficult for him to avoid idolatry. In the Orthodox Christian iconographic tradition, creativity and imagination are strongly discouraged; an iconographer's goal is essentially to copy previous images and, in the few cases in which news ones are needed, to stick as closely to traditional guidelines of color, symbolism, style, etc. as possible. Insofar as he departs from these standards, his quality as an iconographer decreases. In short, iconography is the art of imitation, not innovation.54Iconoclasts, on the other hand, having no traditional image to which to look, are forced to create their own image fresh each time, allowing for the creation of a great variety of false images and the danger of worshiping a false god; this is idolatry.
The Seventh Ecumenical Council, held in the city of Nicaea in 787, in finally giving the Church's official endorsement to iconography in opposition to the Byzantine iconoclasts, was careful with its language and its stipulations on two particularly important points. Here is the relevant portion of the Decree of the Holy Seventh Ecumenical Council:55
We, therefore, following the royal pathway and the divinely inspired authority of our Holy Fathers and the traditions of the Catholic Church (for, as we all know, the Holy Spirit indwells her), define with all certitude and accuracy that just as the figure of the precious and life-giving Cross, so also the venerable and holy images, as well in painting and mosaic as of other fit materials, should be set forth in the holy churches of God, and on the sacred vessels and on the vestments and on hangings and in pictures both in houses and by the wayside, to wit, the figure of our Lord God and Saviour Jesus Christ, of our spotless Lady, the Mother of God, of the honourable Angels, of all Saints and of all pious people. For by so much more frequently as they are seen in artistic representation, by so much more readily are men lifted up to the memory of their prototypes, and to a longing after them; and to these should be given due salutation and honourable reverence, not indeed that true worship of faith which pertains alone to the divine nature; but to these, as to the figure of the precious and life-giving Cross and to the Book of the Gospels and to the other holy objects, incense and lights may be offered according to ancient pious custom. For the honour which is paid to the image passes on to that which the image represents, and he who reveres the image reveres in it the subject represented. For thus the teaching of our holy Fathers, that is the tradition of the Catholic Church, which from one end of the earth to the other hath received the Gospel, is strengthened. Thus we follow Paul, who spake in Christ, and the whole divine Apostolic company and the holy Fathers, holding fast the traditions which we have received.
Note the two portions I have placed in boldface.
First, notice the list of figures which the Council gives permission to depict, namely, Christ, the Theotokos, Angels, Saints, and “pious people.” The Council does not give permission to attempt to depict the divine essence of God (that is, the inner workings of the Trinity) nor the Father and the Holy Spirit. The only Person of the Trinity who can be depicted directly is the Son, the Word of God who became flesh, because He is the only one who has revealed an Image of Himself.
The second portion I have bolded is unequivocal; it is even more unequivocal in the original Greek. The veneration shown to the Holy Icons is not the same as the worship given to the divine nature. You may recall St. John of Damascus' words cited earlier in this essay (section IV):
I do not venerate the matter, but I venerate the Creator of matter, who became matter for me, who condescended to live in matter, and who, through matter accomplished my salvation; and I do not cease to respect the matter through which my salvation is accomplished.45
The Icon itself is not to be confused with the person or Person who is depicted on the Icon. To return to our earlier illustration (section V), this would be the equivalent of preferring a photograph of your wife to actually being with your wife! Or, worse, confusing a photograph of your wife for actually being your wife!
VII - Conclusion
In the course of this essay, we have examined the presence and veneration of the Holy Icons in the light of history, Scripture, and the content of the Christian Faith. It has been shown that,
*to the contrary of what has often been previously supposed, rather than being a later addition to a weaker, less devout Christianity, the iconographic tradition is instead an inheritance assumed by the very earliest Christians from their ancient Jewish forebears.
*in spite of how such passages are often treated, the writings of the early Christians against the idols of the pagans must be interpreted not in a vacuum but in the light of the presence of Christian iconography within the temples within which these individuals worshiped.
*any attempt to eliminate the Holy Icons has necessarily resulted in a de-emphasis of the Incarnation and a resulting step into docetic or semi-docetic Christology.
*veneration of the Holy Icons is not only the historical practice of the Christian Church but, in addition, the only natural response to the presence of the icons.
*although the danger of idolatry exists in an iconographic tradition, iconoclasts are equally if not more capable of falling into idolatry, and the Church in its regulations of the Holy Icons has been careful to avoid the errors which could lead to idolatry.
Early Christians probably began painting Images of Christ, of His Mother, and of holy people in their homes and churches largely as a spontaneous expression of their piety and love for their Lord. Honoring God and commemorating the Saints and events of Christ's life through artistic depictions probably seemed quite natural to them; it was common practice, as we have seen, in the Judaism from which Christianity emerged and to which it still held very close ties. These early Christians probably put little if any thought into the deeper implications and meanings of Christian iconography. And not much changed in these respects until over 700 years into the Christian era with the outbreak of the first-ever movement of iconoclasm within Christianity.
As a result of this movement to destroy and ban the Holy Icons, Christians were forced to take a deeper look at what they had been doing all along and to explore its implications and logical conclusions. What they found is that this practice of iconography which had been natural but largely lacking in deeper meaning thus far was in fact an essential aspect of the Christian Faith without which the primary truths of Christianity would be turned on their head. In short, what had been simply “traditional,” something that had always been done, had become a “Holy Tradition,” itself a central principle of Orthodox Christianity.
http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/defenseofholyicons
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OpenDoor
Faith + Hope + Love
Thank you Dorothea.
Do EO only use icons for praying for intersessions from saints?
I have heard RC priests/monks on EWTN explain that one of the reason they have icons is to help remember the person (like a photo). If this is correct, then I have a hard time understanding why the Jewish community did not have a similar practice.
Edit - Are there any examples from scripture or Orthodox Tradition in which God sent a Prophet to the Jewish or Christian community saying make icons?
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Dorothea
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Icons are present for a holy and prayerful surrounding in the prayer corner at home. Icons in the Church also give us the atmosphere of being surrounded by the cloud of witnesses, and also of brethren in Christ. They are a reminder of Christ's Incarnation, and also a reminder of the Grace of God that worked in His Saints.
I have a prayer shelf in my bedroom, living room, both my boys' rooms, and downstairs level of the house. It is to remind us of the presence of God, and images like these help focus us on good images, not bad. Having said that, I do not pray at my icon corner all the time. I pray throughout the day, ironing, washing dishes, in bed, etc.
If you read the above info, you'll see there were tons of icons in the synagogue newly found in an ancient city in Syria.
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Dorothea
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We take what it says in the Scriptures. God's command of carved cherubim in the tabernacle. Christ incarnate - taking on flesh - making Him visible in the flesh, therefore allowing Him to depicted. Because back in Exodus, God was not seen at that time. So no one was to try to make a symbol or anything from their own vain imaginations on what they thought God looked like. Once He came in the Flesh, this changed that.
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Dorothea
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Of course. One can commit idolatry with many things, not just icons. It's the disposition of the heart of the person that makes the difference. Here's what it says in the article above on this:
Before we close this essay, it seems worthwhile to take note of the dangers of excess which can lead us to idolatry, as icons can certainly be made into idols. In part, it may have been some of the abuses and perversions related to iconography in the Middle Ages that inspired Emperor Leo III the Isaurian to launch the Byzantine iconoclast controversy in the first place. For example, there are accounts which indicate that icons may have served as godparents at baptisms on multiple occassions.53
Such abuses and perversions are, as stated, idolatrous; their possibility does not, however, preclude the display and veneration of the Holy Icons altogether, as some iconoclasts would aver. On the contrary, iconoclasts are just as capable of falling into idolatry as are iconodules (that is, those who venerate the Holy Icons). In fact, it may be somewhat easier for an iconoclast to fall into idolatry as he is much more susceptible to the danger of making a false image of God, most likely created in his own image, whereas for the iconodule an image is already present. All the iconodule must do is make certain that he doesn't turn this image into an idol.
Of all the senses, sight is perhaps the most used by and most important to human beings. Images are natural to us. Martin Luther, the founder of the Protestant Reformation, wrote:
I am convinced that it is God's will that we should hear and learn what He has done, especially what Christ suffered. But when I hear these things and meditate upon them, I find it impossible not to picture them in my heart. Whether I want to or not, when I hear of Christ, a human form hanging upon a cross rises up in my heart: just as I see my natural face reflected when I look into water.8
This not only makes the iconoclast's position an inconsistent one, as he places a ban on external images but knows himself incapable of stopping the natural rising up of images in his mind, but also makes it more difficult for him to avoid idolatry. In the Orthodox Christian iconographic tradition, creativity and imagination are strongly discouraged; an iconographer's goal is essentially to copy previous images and, in the few cases in which news ones are needed, to stick as closely to traditional guidelines of color, symbolism, style, etc. as possible. Insofar as he departs from these standards, his quality as an iconographer decreases. In short, iconography is the art of imitation, not innovation.54Iconoclasts, on the other hand, having no traditional image to which to look, are forced to create their own image fresh each time, allowing for the creation of a great variety of false images and the danger of worshiping a false god; this is idolatry.
A Defense of the Holy Icons @ Orthodox Answers
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Dorothea
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There's one on here of the Book of Esther:
Dura-Europos synagogue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Another link:
oode
And one last one:
Photo Gallery: Dura Europos, Syria
They're fascinating. I've never seen them before.
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Dorothea
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Incidentally the last pic in the last link I gave you is a fresco of the healing of the Paralytic by Jesus...this is the oldest fresco they've found of Jesus, it says.
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