Icons...

[seekingpurity047]

Hey guys!

I have noticed recently that CF has had many icons on the website (though it has always been present, but not nearly as... promptly), and like... I dunno, it's really bothering me.

I'm certainly not a supporter of these icons.

I was wondering what you guys thinik about the icons. I mean, CF was supposed to be inter-denominational, so... they shouldn't have any icons whatsoever. Like, i even noticed one icon of Eastern Orthodoxy in the top left hand corner. I'm sure you guys have come across it.

What do you guys think?

Randy

 

[AndOne]

I've noticed the same thing too. Don't agree with them - but have decided to simply ignore them rather than try to raise a fuss about them. It's a battle I doubt I'd win anyway....

 

[seekingpurity047]

Well, I think it's pretty pointless to put them. I mean, it is meant to be inter-denominational, but many of these icons are like... yah, Eastern Orthodox. At least, that's the one that really stands out for me, probably the one that bothers me the most.

I will not be satisfied until they remove them completely OR they put tulips all over the place

 

[mlqurgw]

The wise warrior picks his battles. Trying to fight on every front will spread you too thin and cause you to be less effective in all of them. If you believe it is important then fight but some things are just bettter left alone.

 

[cygnusx1]

it could be worse , it could be a picture of the pope , or mary enshrined .....

 

[ByzantineDixie]

I think the icons are there because today is Pascha (Orthodox Easter). I don't expect them to become a prominent permanent presence. I think Erwin is doing this just to extend fellowship to the Orthodox observing Holy Week this past week and celebrating Pascha today.

 

[cygnusx1]

I think the icons are there because today is Pascha (Orthodox Easter). I don't expect them to become a prominent permanent presence. I think Erwin is doing this just to extend fellowship to the Orthodox observing Holy Week this past week and celebrating Pascha today.

thanks for the info b dixie

 

[arunma]

I recently had a discussion with a Roman Catholic Christian on the usage of icons, and I think we (surprisingly) came to somewhat of a consensus.

Iconography isn't idolatry. An idolater will do one of two things: he will either claim that God is in his idol, or he will claim that his idol is a representation of a god other than the God of Israel. I've seen that Orthodox Christians never depict God the Father in their icons. Only God the Son is depicted. And no one who has watched the Passion (or any other Christian film about Jesus) can rightfully object to this without being a hypocrite.

That said, iconography is a bad idea. In theory it is sound: the icon does not truly depict God, but only brings our attention to him. Ask any bishop or priest, and he will deny that the icon is truly divine by its own merits. However, it is easy for an icon-venerating Christian to commit the sin of idolatry by treating an icon as if it were a god. Most humans are not ruled by our intellects, but also have emotions. We know at an intellectual level that icons are not gods. But if we venerate them and pray in front of them, it becomes easy for us to treat the icons as gods, and we thus plunge headlong into the most heinous sin of idolatry.

My church does not have any icons. And frankly, I like it that way. I do not judge Christians whose churches use icons. But nevertheless, I don't think that it is the most spiritually beneficial thing to do. So I don't think that the icons shown here on CF are evil or ungodly. But I do think that they are a deviation from ideal worship.

 

[seekingpurity047]

I think the icons are there because today is Pascha (Orthodox Easter). I don't expect them to become a prominent permanent presence. I think Erwin is doing this just to extend fellowship to the Orthodox observing Holy Week this past week and celebrating Pascha today.

I wonder then, at halloween, will they uh... put stuff about reformation day? This is interesting because October 31st is the day that Luther posted the 95 theses on the church doors.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[ByzantineDixie]

I wonder then, at halloween, will they uh... put stuff about reformation day? This is interesting because October 31st is the day that Luther posted the 95 theses on the church doors.

To the glory of God,

Randy

As a former Lutheran I am well familiar with this day. (In fact, as a side note, in all instances when the Lutheran confessions mention the Eastern church it is in a positive light.) BUT...not all divisions in the faith celebrate the Reformation. The Resurrection is something that crosses all boundaries of division in the faith...one could hardly be called Christian without celebrating the Resurrection.

As a point of interest, what is it exactly that you find objectionable about the pictures that look like icons that are up right now?

 

[arunma]

As a former Lutheran I am well familiar with this day. (In fact, as a side note, in all instances when the Lutheran confessions mention the Eastern church it is in a positive light.) BUT...not all divisions in the faith celebrate the Reformation. The Resurrection is something that crosses all boundaries of division in the faith...one could hardly be called Christian without celebrating the Resurrection.

As a point of interest, what is it exactly that you find objectionable about the pictures that look like icons that are up right now?

Don't tell anyone I said this, but actually I am able to appreciate much of Orthodox iconography. Still, I wish that it wouldn't be used in church services.

 

[ClementofRome]

I suppose that my Calvinist icon to the left and my Clement icon on the right are somehow in contradistinction to one another?

 

[Philip]

I've seen that Orthodox Christians never depict God the Father in their icons. Only God the Son is depicted.

This is mostly correct. God the Spirit is depicted in icons of the Baptism of Christ and Pentacost. He is shown as a dove and flames, respectively.

 

[Philip]

I suppose that my Calvinist icon to the left and my Clement icon on the right are somehow in contradistinction to one another?

I will admit that I have found the juxtaposition of the two a bit surprising.

 

[inchristalone221]

If Clement is really "orthodox" in any meaningful sense of the word he IS a calvinist

 

[BibleWheel]

I am a protestant, but think that Orthodox Iconography is one of their greatest contributions to the Church as a whole (the invisible Body of Christ). They are like the "right brain" focused on artistic expression of theology and the west is the "left brain" focused on propositional theology.

It will be a great day when the "corpus callosum" is reconnected!

Richard

 

[ClementofRome]

I will admit that I have found the juxtaposition of the two a bit surprising.

I am an enigma all wrapped up in a conundrum!

On the other hand, Michael Horton has suggested that theologically, Eastern Orthodoxy and Calvinism are closer than Calvinism and other Protestant perspectives. John Calvin was a huge fan of Chrysostom and quotes him more often than any other church father.

BTW, I am a huge fan of St. Clement of Rome as I spent 6 years with the man (document) doing my doctoral dissertation on 1 Clement.

 

[AndOne]

On the other hand, Michael Horton has suggested that theologically, Eastern Orthodoxy and Calvinism are closer than Calvinism and other Protestant perspectives. John Calvin was a huge fan of Chrysostom and quotes him more often than any other church father.

I don't know about that! Of course I've only read his "Institutes" and am slowly getting through his commentary - but so far it looks like he quotes Augustine of Hippo more than anyone else. He had a fondness for the philosophers too - but Augustine is all over "The Institutes...."

 

[Nadiine]

The wise warrior picks his battles. Trying to fight on every front will spread you too thin and cause you to be less effective in all of them. If you believe it is important then fight but some things are just bettter left alone.

I agree with this statement.

There are SO many important things we need to be using our ovices to oppose; to use them on what I personally consider a small issue, I believe tends to make us look like judgmental, sour, 'legalistic' nit-pickers to many.

I personally believe that many people who pick out the icons have no idea what 1/2 the symbols mean or represent, they're looking at them asthetically.

What i mean by that is, it's not meant as any religious statement by alot of the users, but as an attractive graphic.

I don't think any Christian website or organization can please everyone!! It's impossible.
Being new to CF, sure, I see some things I don't exactly love, but it's still a place where the name of the Lord can be proclaimed & gives us a voice to reach others that come here.

Sometimes our negativity can shut people off to hearing our message.

 

[inchristalone221]

I don't think any Christian website or organization can please everyone!! It's impossible.

This is so true. I can think of a particular moderator group that doesn't realize that yet.