IceDragon Comment on Reinventing the Adventist Wheel.

icedragon said... Marcel
Hello,
I have recently decided to leave the SDA Church. I made the commitment about 2 month ago after 1.5 years of study. I don't want to come off as critical or harsh or use scare tactics, but the SDA theological picture is severely tainted with error.
Let me tell you it was a complete surprise to me to find these things. I just wanted to shore up my understanding of SDA history, so I started to read SDA sanctioned church history it was while reading the biography's of some of the leading figure I started to see the problems. I read books about AT Jones and WW Prescott. It was while reading Prescott that I came across a statement that made me stand up and take notice.
Prescott commented about the 1888 conference in Minneapolis that the fight was not so much over the message of Righteousness by faith as it was what Ellen white had said in vision 32 years earlier.
Uriah Smith and George Butler were at a Bible conference in 1856 and and the subject of the law in Galatians came up, this is central to understanding righteousness by faith (RBF). Well both Smith and Butler remember a vision from God in the form of testimony being produced by Ellen White to support the view that Smith and Butler had preached and endorsed for 32 years. The EGW vision Settled the matter. Now 32 years later she changes her position and goes back on her statement leaving Smith and Butler and the entire denomination out in the cold.

Lest you thing for a moment That Smith is just some side character to EGW you would be mistaken. Uriah Smith was Ellen Whites Chief apologists and Her primary defender. George Butler was also a primary supporter and it was largely on the statement made in vision that he held to the view he did. Both Smith and butler discerned correctly that if EGW changed her view then that would invalidate her claim to be a prophet.
After understanding what the issue was I want back and tried to understand what the issues were in 1856. J.H. Waggoner had written a book "The law of god: and examination of the testimony of the two testements" in this book he went on to show that that law was in effect all the way though the scriptures and that the law has always been the medium to bring a person to Christ who was the means of righteousness, the law was never a means of righteousness. This position was theologically correct, but it was voted out because of the vision EGW had. Then later EGW Changed her mind when E.J Waggoner the Son Of J.H. Waggoner came along saying the same thing. That is a problem. The prophet cannot have a vision endorsing a position that is theologically wrong. NEVER not acceptable. Lets you try to minimize this issue. This is the central pillar of All of Christianity, it is what separates Christianity from all other religions how to get to heaven, by your own actions or by faith in Christs Actions. The prophet should know this. That is what got me started. I began to dig and scratch and found that EGW had made numerous false predictions and had vision about theological positions which she later went back on.

The most blatant of these was in February 1845 it is found in Manuscript Releases vol 5 around page 93. It is a letter to Joseph Bates and it was written in EGW's own handwriting. Joseph Bates had asked EGW to explain some doubts that he had about EGW prophetic ministry and to clarify questions that had been circulating. The letter is only partially intact, but what is in tact is damaging enough to discredit EGW As a prophet.

After Oct 22 1844 there was much confusion in the Millerite ranks. The Millerite movement began to splinter into many factions. there were the Life and Death Adventist, the Age to come Adventist, the Evangelical Adventist, the Sabbatarian
Adventist, The Shut Door Adventist, there were at least 16 different groups that I am aware of that emerged. This gave rise to the Need for a conference held in April of 1845 Called the "The Mutual Conference of Adventist" it was located in Albany New York. It was there that the Millerite Body formally unified it's fractured body and accepted agreed upon points. One of the points agreed upon was that nothing of Salvation importance happened in 1844 and that the 2300 days had been misinterepted. Also stated was, that Since nothing happened, The claim that some had made that the William Miller had given the final Warning to the world and the Door of salvation was shut for any one who did not accept his message were lost, was retracted.
This gave a rise to a problem for some of the Millerites because some still believed that something of salvation importance happened in 1844 and that William Miller had given the final warning to the world and the door of mercy was shut to everyone accept the Milleritates. Among those groups were the Sabbatarian and the Shut-Door Adventists, which Ellen G.Harmon(White) was a part of.

After the initial disappointment Ellen believed Miller to be wrong and that Salvation was open to all, but as she began to have vision she began to change her mind. she eventually came to believe that that door of mercy was Shut and salvation lost to all who had not accepted Miller message. She also came to believe and to endorse time setting 46,47,49 51 for the return of Christ. It is here that the problems of her claim of inspiration and the letter from Joseph Bates comes into play. In the letter Ellen is asked to explain a vision she had. The the description of the vision is very damming to Ellen. In it there is a Sister in the faith who is having such a hard time believing that the door of salvation and mercy is shut to all but the shut door group, but when Ellen goes off into vision she has a message from God stating that the Door of Mercy was shut and this changed the sisters mind. Ellen would later abandon the Shut door movement and that salvation was still open to all, but what you see is Ellen leading people the wrong way, Hum?
That brings into question her claim to prophetic ministry. Can God accurately deliver a message to his people. Yes he did it through the child Samuel, but cannot get it right through Ellen. That is one of the problems and the tip of the iceberg. Other Doctirens such as The Investigative Judgement, and the 2300 day ending in 1844 are not valid. Jesus entering the Most Holy Place in 1844 is clearly contracted by Hebrews 8-10 and specificly in Chapter 9.
I hope you don't take offense to this but that is why I cannot accept EGW. You said that "formers" sound like a broken record and are subject to "group think" well let me tell you I never talked to anyone about this until I had seen the problems. As far as "group think" the reason we sound alike is that the issues are the same. It is amazing to me that some in Europe, Africa, Asia, North Dakota, California and Nebraska could come to the exact same conclusions and that people a 100 years apart could come to the same conclusions. I am not angry at the Church just cannot agree with it.
You say that we are abandoning ship let me address that. The Adventist Ship is predicated on the believe that it is the true Church and the "Remnant Church of bible prophecy" Just open up Adventist Review or Adventist World or turn on 3ABNor Loma Linda Broadcasting Network or Hope TV and you will see it over and over again. This belief is linked directly to the 2300 days, break the link you break the claim and identity of the SDA Church, it is just that simple. As far as Daniel and Revelation Go they are absolutely important to SDA theology, thinking and identity. With out them there is no SDA Movement, the Sunday law the 3 Angels message, Ellen white, investigative judgment, 1000 year reign, yada yada yada. These things are absolutely central to Adventist thinking. You cannot be an SDA with out them for no matter what your worldview it has been filter through and SDA lenses.

The reason people are leaving The SDA Church is because the lens is wrong and and to view life through this lens is deception. Sorry no 2 way about it.
My SDA training has taught me, BTW I have a degree in SDA theology, that error obscures the truth and destroys the picture of Christ and hurts people in some way. Well if the SDA church is in Error then it is obscuring the picture of Christ. Why should I stay in it. it hurts me in someway. Do you see that. The Ideas that some how there is going to be a change is a fantasy. Are you telling me you can stop Doug Batchlor from going around and say that 1844 is true? or that Sunday is the mark of the Beast? or that Ellen white is a prophet? No for the SDA Church to do that is to deny it's very identity. So do you see the problem? the SDA Church will not change it's beliefs why would I stay and support it?

Well any way. you guys seem nice and some of you I actually know in real life. it will be interesting to see the response. If you will be nice in return
Well thanks for letting me express my Self,. Oh please forgive any spelling errors and grammer errors

God bless you

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mva1985 said:

J

Perhaps you should look for reform from within.

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