Ice Ages

[RickG]

One of the popular claims in the YEC Flood Geology literature is that the Ice Age occurred after Noah's Flood. I would have said last ice age, but they only think there was one.

So, two questions to begin with:

1. Who in the Creation Science Camp has the proper credentials to make such a claim and why?
2. What are the contributing (YEC) factors for such an ice age?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Since nobody bites, I'll put on my YEC labcoat and answer for them:

1. God off course, the "ultiimate" authority. And he can't lie because the bible says so. And it must be correct because god created the bible and, as we have seen before, the bible is true because god can't lie - as he says so in the bible.

2. Magic, obviously. How else could kangaroo's get to australia or piniguins to antartica? They can't swim that far you know....

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Since nobody bites, I'll put on my YEC labcoat and answer for them:

1. God off course, the "ultiimate" authority. And he can't lie because the bible says so. And it must be correct because god created the bible and, as we have seen before, the bible is true because god can't lie - as he says so in the bible.

2. Magic, obviously. How else could kangaroo's get to australia or piniguins to antartica? They can't swim that far you know....

It says that the tabernacle of the Lord is with men, it says nothing about pseudo scientific websites.

 

[RickG]

The claim for a post Genesis flood ice age comes from Creationist Michael Oard. Here's a link to one of his papers describing it.

https://answersingenesis.org/environmental-science/ice-age/where-does-the-ice-age-fit/

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

The claim for a post Genesis flood ice age comes from Creationist Michael Oard. Here's a link to one of his papers describing it.

https://answersingenesis.org/environmental-science/ice-age/where-does-the-ice-age-fit/

Do I have to? AIG isn't the sort of website, I find helpful.
I'll check it out later, thanks.

 

[RickG]

Do I have to? AIG isn't the sort of website, I find helpful.
I'll check it out later, thanks.

Pseudo Science at its best. I think one of the most interesting aspects of the piece is the intellectual level it is written on. This is supposed to be convincing science? I would love to get this guy in a public debate.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Pseudo Science at its best. I think one of the most interesting aspects of the piece is the intellectual level it is written on. This is supposed to be convincing science? I would love to get this guy in a public debate.

I did start reading, but it worked like a sleeping tablet.
You might just get your wish.

 

[RickG]

I did start reading, but it worked like a sleeping tablet.
You might just get your wish.

From Oard's article:

"I used budget equations for the cooling of the ocean and atmosphere, which are simply based on heat inputs minus heat outputs—the difference causing the change in temperatures"
​

I would love to see those equations, and especially his data sources.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

From Oard's article:

"I used budget equations for the cooling of the ocean and atmosphere, which are simply based on heat inputs minus heat outputs—the difference causing the change in temperatures"
​

I would love to see those equations, and especially his data sources.

You got that far. I'm busy with a great course hosted by Copenhagen Uni. ( currently halted as I wait for a proper computer ) and I barely got through the 1st stanza:

If you ask a youngster the question, “Was there really an ice age?” they might say rather quickly that there was. Then they may tell you that there were two of them. Of course, if you listen much longer, they will tell you that they saw both of those movies in the theater.​

 

[RickG]

You got that far. I'm busy with a great course hosted by Copenhagen Uni. ( currently halted as I wait for a proper computer ) and I barely got through the 1st stanza:

If you ask a youngster the question, “Was there really an ice age?” they might say rather quickly that there was. Then they may tell you that there were two of them. Of course, if you listen much longer, they will tell you that they saw both of those movies in the theater.​

But the reality is, if that youngster has at least completed the 6th grade, he knows more about ice ages than Oard, and knows those movies are junk science.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

But the reality is, if that youngster has at least completed the 6th grade, he knows more about ice ages than Oard, and knows those movies are junk science.

Which means he's either referring to tiny tots, or those who have been homeschooled in a guarded environment.

I encountered this sort of thing awhile back, where internet viewing is closely monitored. It so reminded me of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Now days we are being bombarded with so much stuff via the Media, that youngsters (like the three UK schoolgirls from East London, who are somewhere in Syria) are easy pickings for these doomsayers. (I wrote soothsayers, but my android has a mind of its own)

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Which means he's either referring to tiny tots, or those who have been homeschooled in a guarded environment.

I encountered this sort of thing awhile back, where internet viewing is closely monitored. It so reminded me of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Now days we are being bombarded with so much stuff via the Media, that youngsters (like the three UK schoolgirls from East London, who are somewhere in Syria) are easy pickings for these doomsayers. (I wrote soothsayers, but my android has a mind of its own)

Yet the JW's simply tell them what the Bible says. Not what they want to hear, so are on the outside to the same group that is on the outside to scientists. And complain because scientists put them on the outside, without realizing they do the same thing they complain about.

I guess it's just a matter of dogma, no matter who preaches it. Whether it's labeled science or religion, those who hold to dogma always ostracize those that don't.

I say they are all partially right, and all partially wrong. Just have to dispense with those dogmatic attitudes. No matter who holds them to get to the reality that lies somewhere in between.

 

[RickG]

So Floodsters, is the ice age a result of the Genesis flood, as Michael Oard would have you believe? Chime in.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Yet the JW's simply tell them what the Bible says.

Yes, that's one of their opening lines. I'd go into it now, but it's too far off topic.
If you have time, I think you might benefit from reading some of David A. Reed 's books.( Books by David A. Reed, plus books on Jehovah's Witnesses ) In short, their lives are very closely monitored. My point.

 

[RickG]

One thing absolutely hilarious about Oard's article is that he gives 23 citations, 4 are actually legit (which he misrepresents), and cites himself in 14 others. Creation science at work.

 

[RickG]

One part of Oard's article states the following:

"The principles of atmospheric science can also estimate areas of high oceanic evaporation, the eventual depth of the ice, and even the timing of the Ice Age. Numerical simulations of precipitation in the polar regions using conventional climate models with warm sea surface temperatures have demonstrated that ice sheets thousands of feet thick could have accumulated in less than 500 years."
​

The last part of that paragraph, states that thousands of feet thick accumulated thousands of feet thickness in less than 500 years. Thickness is true, the timeline is beyond absurd. He does give a reference to an ICR article for that, so I'll see if I can find it and see where and/or how that timeline is calculated.

 

[Split Rock]

One of the popular claims in the YEC Flood Geology literature is that the Ice Age occurred after Noah's Flood. I would have said last ice age, but they only think there was one.

So, two questions to begin with:

1. Who in the Creation Science Camp has the proper credentials to make such a claim and why?
2. What are the contributing (YEC) factors for such an ice age?

1. Anyone who can read and misquote/ misrepresent real scientific literature.

2. The contributing factors are:
a. too many people (including the sheep rank-and-file creationists who follow them) know about the last ice age and accept it to ignore it.
b. The evidence for an ice age is too complete to ignore (like heliocentrism).

Therefore, an ice age has to be "shoe-horned" into the YEC timeline somehow.

 

[Split Rock]

The claim for a post Genesis flood ice age comes from Creationist Michael Oard. Here's a link to one of his papers describing it.

https://answersingenesis.org/environmental-science/ice-age/where-does-the-ice-age-fit/

This part cracks me up:

The ice age is a popular topic that is often discussed in school, at home, or in Hollywood. Sadly, most people hear the secular/uniformitarian view and don’t look at this subject from a biblical perspective. This is where it gets interesting, though. The secular view has no good mechanism to cause a single ice age, let alone the many they propose. But the Bible does have a mechanism.​

The reason I laugh is that this guy keeps referring to the "biblical perspective" even though the bible never mentions anything about any ice age... ever.. There is no "biblical perspective" on any ice age.. but that doesn't stop a "bible literalist" like this professional lying creationist from claiming his crack-pot ideas are "what the bible tells us."

 

[AV1611VET]

So Floodsters, is the ice age a result of the Genesis flood, as Michael Oard would have you believe?

The book of Job describes an ice age:

Job 6:15 My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
Job 6:16 Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:

 

[RickG]

The book of Job describes an ice age:

Job 6:15 My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
Job 6:16 Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:

Job is after Genesis and Noah. Try again.