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The sinner Jesus saves is a saint and no longer a sinner in need of the law for guidance. The saved sinner, a saint is a changed individual no longer having a propensity to sin.
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I would not have know sin but for the law....
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The purpose of Holy Spirit and grace in your life is to conform you to his image on that day you will be as he is and be known as he is known. As the word of God made flesh he is the law embodied in flesh. Keeping the law is not good enough he is making you become.the law which will be complete on that day. You in him he in you both in the Father. You can not ignore the law it is him revealed and thereby it is to be you. To convert to Judaism takes you out of grace and places you in the weakness of your ability( in this way the law is passed away) However Jesus has removed the weakness of the law( thats you)by fulfilling the law and giving it a full streangth which is God in you writing his law on your heart and mind making you his brother of the same womb conforming you to be the living word.
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How was the Philippian jailer answered to his question - What must I do to be saved? Acts 16 I take the incident to be a present reality and not a future event.
Yes if you take it out of its context I'd agree with you. Jesus is talking about end times events and deliverance of the wrath to be pored out at least in Israel. If it isn't then no one including the Philippian jailer is saved. So why not party hardy till then? After all we're not saved as in redeemed anyway.
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No sale. Salvation is a current possession. Otherwise we have no fellowship with God. Worship then would amount to purchasing salvation. I don't buy such nonsense.
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According to both Paul and John Christians (saints) sin. I refer you to the letters to Romans 7, the Corinthians and 1 John 1.
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Shimshon
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It's clear you struggle with sin since this is what you focus on. I applaud your heart to be righteous for God. Yet, Abraham was declared righteous because he 'beleived' in what God promised him. NOT becaused he received it in his day. Are you a son of Abraham through faith, or are you clinging to something you think you've already received? That would not be being saved and found righteous through 'faith' but through a work that was done in your life.How was the Philippian jailer answered to his question - What must I do to be saved? Acts 16 I take the incident to be a present reality and not a future event.
Yes if you take it out of its context I'd agree with you. Jesus is talking about end times events and deliverance of the wrath to be pored out at least in Israel. If it isn't then no one including the Philippian jailer is saved. So why not party hardy till then? After all we're not saved as in redeemed anyway.
We believe we are being kept and will be saved, that death will not have victory over us, though we die. We are saved by grace through faith. We have not yet received our reward, nor the promise. We, like Abraham have faith that we will receive it.
I agree with believing the promise of our state of being. We declare that which is not 'now' but will be in the future as 'real', as truth. We are sinners, and will die in our sins because of our earthly state, but we are saints in God's eyes as we die to ourselves and live in Messiah. ONLY when we are dead to ourselves are we alive to God. But my friend, you will forever be putting the old man to death on this earth till you die. No man is perfected this side of heaven. We are all being formed here in this life. And truely the answer is as simple as a babys response. It does not take a theologean to understand. It's called faith, and it has nothing to do with what we 'do' but what we believe. And if we believe we know we are to continually kill our flesh, submitting every thought to Messiah. Why? Why do we have unclean thoughts to submit to Messiah, as believers? Because we are constantlly being formed in this world. It's our womb. And when we are 'born again' we will be what God has planned for us. Why? Because he already did it? Or because he promises he will do it?
Come now, we are to live holy, but we have not yet attained holiness. This is our goal in this life. And it is attained through faith, not anything already done to us. It was done for us already, yes. But it has not yet been realized in our beings yet.
Romans 8
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present timehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-33are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-34the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-35was subjected to futility, not willingly, but http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-36because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-37the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-38the whole creation http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-39has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-40the firstfruits of the Spirit, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-41groan inwardly as http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-42we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-43the redemption of our bodies. 24 For http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-44in this hope we were saved. Now http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-45hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-46wait for it with patience. 26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness
We are weak, and have a 'hope' of being saved.
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Is that even in responce to what I wrote if so maybe you should read again. I never came close to saying we dont currently have salvation. What we do have is an earnest of our inheratance salvation was not in question.and what I have is a free gift no purchase neccesary.
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What did I say? Did I say Christians don't sin? Nope! Did I provide passages and general references to back that up? Yup! So IMHO you ring hollow.
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As a Christian I possess a righteousness that doesn't stem from me (Phil 3:9) by declaration Rom 4 Just like Abraham and David. Both sinned and yet were said to be righteous.
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I'm sure you misunderstand me. You're picking up in the middle of a very long conversation. If you read many of my posts you won't find me dealing with sin as a subject except in response to the pro law camp who feel they're righteous because they worship on Saturday and condemn me for not submitting to the law. Its not my covenant and I can't violate it. NTL sin still exists as it did prior to the law and after the law. Yes I sin without the law. Yes I'm righteous in God's eyes or I've to call the Bible a fraud. This righteousness isn't from my doing. It doesn't matter if I quote you the Bible or not. I'm firmly established on what it says. If you want verses, just ask.
First I don't struggle with sin at least that I know anything about. Yes there's a war that sometimes gets hot. I just rebuke satan in Jesus name and go on about my business. Just because a thought comes to me about sin doesn't mean I sin or even struggle with it. It doesn't become sin till I at least take possession of it. Then it has a chance of becoming a physical manifestation.
Now righteousness doesn't come by the law. The law doesn't apply to the Christian because its simply not our covenant. That means just as Paul a Jewish Pharisee is free from the law so am I. That covenant has been replaced by another covenant as promised and sealed with the blood of Jesus the Christ. If not there's no such thing as salvation or eternal life. Jesus said I've already passed the judgment and have (possess) life (meaning eternal=salvation) and have fellowship with God the Father the Creator.
No I won't die in my sins. My body has already received it final irrevocable judgment and merely awaits its fate. My soul has been born and will never die. Yes that is immortality. The soul will never cease to exist even in death. Yeppers I know that is unacceptable to many. To say I'll die in my sins is to say they're not forgiven. God doesn't remember my sin. (Jer 31:34 and Heb 10:17)
Ho boy is a can o' worms ever been opened up. I hate to derail a thread.
What is the position of a son of Abraham through faith? Is it not the blessing promised to Abraham? What is that blessing? I think its salvation.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Heb 10:1
My faith makes what I don't have physical possession of current reality. That is called a fact.
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I'll try again.
I'm not being made perfect in the flesh. I'm not being made into the law embodied in the flesh. Yes I'm know by God as He sees Jesus and not actually me. My sole defense is Jesus in answer to every sin charged. The law can't condemn me. I'm righteous by declaration made possible through the blood of Jesus. This righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees as required for salvation. It isn't my own righteousness as Phil 3:9 states. I don't personally fulfill the law. The law is fulfilled in me and not by me. I can't fulfill the law and neither can anyone else. I already passed the judgment and been found not guilty. BTW passing the judgment means not guilty. Those who fail receive eternal damnation. They didn't pass.
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I'm no longer under the law per 1 Tim 1:9-10 and you must use the law lawfully per verse 8. Here ya go -
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
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Since they sinned why are they called righteous? Abraham's righteousness had nothing to do with the law. Since David sinned while under the law, it also had nothing to do with his righteousness, clearly not stemming from the law. Mine comes the very same way. I'm righteous and not self righteous.
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Look you can say anything you like. I made no dishonest statement(s). You can't and won't ever get me to confess something I'm not. I certainly will admit that I've been known as a sinner though.
Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy; PS 107:2
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