I will not tithe, but give!

[KyleSpringer]

I will never tithe again. Convince me I should.

I pray that the Lord is with you all.

 

[topher694]

I sense all is not as it is made to appear.

 

[KyleSpringer]

I sense all is not as it is made to appear.

Meaning?

 

[topher694]

Meaning?

Patience. Time will tell.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I will never tithe again. Convince me I should.

I pray that the Lord is with you all.

Is this a question or a test? I'd say its not up to anyone to convince someone to tithe. We can give advice, but if one tithes just because someone told them too, then its not from the heart.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A good resource on the topic.

No More Tithing | No More Tithing

 

[Peter J Barban]

I am happy that you are not tithing. Convince me I'm wrong.

 

[Acts2:38]

I will never tithe again. Convince me I should.

I pray that the Lord is with you all.

Correct conclusion. Nowhere in the NT does it say anything about tithing. It does say to lay up in store that which we were prospered though, and to give with a cheerful heart. That whole tithing thing is from the OT before the new covenant.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I heard, Tithe for six weeks in your church, according to scripture, cheerful giving on the first day of the week. If you miss a tithe, add to the next one... And if you are not blessed as in the promise in Habakkuk, look for another church.

If you are wise to keep back the tithe for a time, be ready to give extra later.

Tithing, helps your full time Pastor and one day you children could pick up a spouse converted by that Pastor with many good qualities for marriage from the youth group...

As I am I have had trouble tithing due to my family and lack of money in the past. Obeying the law does not make you right. Grace is free.

 

[topher694]

To say that because someone is giving more makes them more generous if a false assertion. If I have a tank of gas and I use half of it to drive people around without ever asking for a dollar is generous. If I serve at my church for years without ever expecting compensation is generous. If I stop and listen to a person in need, I’m giving my time and I’m being generous. If I bought a meal, and notice someone is without food, sharing or giving your entire meal, is generous.

Tithing 10% on a regular basis is great if there is a mission you are supporting, a project you are endorsing, whatever. But just paying tithe because it’s the way those who started the church can keep the lights on, is such a critically misinformed idea.

I have to get a job to work to pay my bills, and the church is known for helping people, so if I went to them and said, hey, can i have help making some monthly payments, since I’ve given tithe for so long, they should do it right? That’s why we are giving to them so they can help others and us if we need, correct? Or do I only get the spiritual food from the storehouses of God, while I pay the staffs salary?

If you want to keep tithe because it’s the right thing to do, you must keep the rest of the law while you’re at it.

There are just too many great examples of the mind gymnastics people use to excuse not giving not to point them out:

A) Apples and oranges: people make claims like this that the about amount is what matters to ministers. That ministers think that someone who has more wealth is more generous, ie net amount is what matters. Then, they use percentages to illustrate how awful that is. You can't have it both ways. You don't get to use percentages while projecting net amounts on ministers. Every single minster I know understands this concept. We know generosity when we see it, whether the net amount is a little or a lot. I never said - and God never said - generosity was about the end amount, if you are generous with a little you will be generous with a lot. If you are stingy with a little, you will be stingy with a lot. A little or a lot, it's a heart issue.

B) Bait & switch. Can you be generous in areas other than finances? Of course... and we should be. But that wasn't the topic. Additionally, doing what is right and/or generous in one area does not remove the responsibility to do what is right/generous in another area. You wouldn't say to someone who needs a ride, "Sorry, I can't give you a ride today because I donated to church", so why would it be ok to say, "Sorry, I can't donate to the church because I give people rides"

C) Misdirect & minimize. It's ok to give to missions or some noble cause, but it's silly to pay to "keep the lights on". The implication being that lights are not as important as the causes *I* give to. Yet, the lights represent the availability to help people in crisis. You minimize its importance, yet when you find yourself in an emergency (marriage, death, legal, kids, financial, emotional...) and you call or message the church or pastor you certainly expect them to drop everything be there for you. In other words you expect the lights to be on. I see it ALL the time. Moreover, emergencies rarely seem to happen during regular business hours, more often than not it seems they happen during pastor's family time. Yet the ones I know will drop everything at a moment's notice to help someone in need... lights on indeed, sheesh.

D) Buyer's remorse. Giving isn't giving if it entitles you to something. That is a purchase. God didn't say He loves a cheerful buyer, He loves a cheerful giver. That being said, I have done EXACTLY what you outlined. Helped people in an emergency situation financially, especially those who are well connected to the church (and those who are not). I know others churches who have done the same. The trick here is this: you learn VERY quickly you must do it extremely quietly and have strict rules surrounding it, because word get's out and you have people judging your decisions to help others along with a seemingly endless stream of people who don't care about God, don't care about learning about Him, don't care about the church or anything really, they only care about getting a handout. You have very limited funds and time and now you have people who don't want real "help" constantly taking away both from your ability to help the people who do.

E) Vilification. If I lump the tithe in with bad things like not wearing mixed linens or stoning disobedient kids then I'm off the hook. First, this demonstrates a massive misunderstanding and misuse of the OT and the law. Second, giving is a godly principle that transcends the law. It was there before there was a law, it was in the gospels, and it is in the new covenant. The question is simply about the amount. But the tithe was/is a form of giving, to vilify that is to vilify a form of generosity.


I've seen the fruit of those who passionately oppose the tithe. It is... disappointing to say the least. In the real world they are often not generous (in finances and all other forms) and cynical about other people and helping. On internet forums they are confrontational and argumentative which often leads to bans and the like.

Heck, I don't even really preach on the tithe. Yet, I'm not going to steer people away from any form of godly giving, and at the same time I don't pressure people to do so. My giving focus is 99% on giving with a cheerful heart. But, to be fair, it is hard to give cheerfully when bitterness is your foundation.

Now, I have a hunch you will disagree. Fine. I have no interest in debating further, and I won't. There is nothing you can say that I haven't heard before, ad nauseam. Tithe. Don't tithe. I don't care. But, be careful about projecting such negativity on those who do and the ministries that utilize them to do God's work.

 

[KyleSpringer]

There are just too many great examples of the mind gymnastics people use to excuse not giving not to point them out:

A) Apples and oranges: people make claims like this that the about amount is what matters to ministers. That ministers think that someone who has more wealth is more generous, ie net amount is what matters. Then, they use percentages to illustrate how awful that is. You can't have it both ways. You don't get to use percentages while projecting net amounts on ministers. Every single minster I know understands this concept. We know generosity when we see it, whether the net amount is a little or a lot. I never said - and God never said - generosity was about the end amount, if you are generous with a little you will be generous with a lot. If you are stingy with a little, you will be stingy with a lot. A little or a lot, it's a heart issue.

B) Bait & switch. Can you be generous in areas other than finances? Of course... and we should be. But that wasn't the topic. Additionally, doing what is right and/or generous in one area does not remove the responsibility to do what is right/generous in another area. You wouldn't say to someone who needs a ride, "Sorry, I can't give you a ride today because I donated to church", so why would it be ok to say, "Sorry, I can't donate to the church because I give people rides"

C) Misdirect & minimize. It's ok to give to missions or some noble cause, but it's silly to pay to "keep the lights on". The implication being that lights are not as important as the causes *I* give to. Yet, the lights represent the availability to help people in crisis. You minimize its importance, yet when you find yourself in an emergency (marriage, death, legal, kids, financial, emotional...) and you call or message the church or pastor you certainly expect them to drop everything be there for you. In other words you expect the lights to be on. I see it ALL the time. Moreover, emergencies rarely seem to happen during regular business hours, more often than not it seems they happen during pastor's family time. Yet the ones I know will drop everything at a moment's notice to help someone in need... lights on indeed, sheesh.

D) Buyer's remorse. Giving isn't giving if it entitles you to something. That is a purchase. God didn't say He loves a cheerful buyer, He loves a cheerful giver. That being said, I have done EXACTLY what you outlined. Helped people in an emergency situation financially, especially those who are well connected to the church (and those who are not). I know others churches who have done the same. The trick here is this: you learn VERY quickly you must do it extremely quietly and have strict rules surrounding it, because word get's out and you have people judging your decisions to help others along with a seemingly endless stream of people who don't care about God, don't care about learning about Him, don't care about the church or anything really, they only care about getting a handout. You have very limited funds and time and now you have people who don't want real "help" constantly taking away both from your ability to help the people who do.

E) Vilification. If I lump the tithe in with bad things like not wearing mixed linens or stoning disobedient kids then I'm off the hook. First, this demonstrates a massive misunderstanding and misuse of the OT and the law. Second, giving is a godly principle that transcends the law. It was there before there was a law, it was in the gospels, and it is in the new covenant. The question is simply about the amount. But the tithe was/is a form of giving, to vilify that is to vilify a form of generosity.


I've seen the fruit of those who passionately oppose the tithe. It is... disappointing to say the least. In the real world they are often not generous (in finances and all other forms) and cynical about other people and helping. On internet forums they are confrontational and argumentative which often leads to bans and the like.

Heck, I don't even really preach on the tithe. Yet, I'm not going to steer people away from any form of godly giving, and at the same time I don't pressure people to do so. My giving focus is 99% on giving with a cheerful heart. But, to be fair, it is hard to give cheerfully when bitterness is your foundation.

Now, I have a hunch you will disagree. Fine. I have no interest in debating further, and I won't. There is nothing you can say that I haven't heard before, ad nauseam. Tithe. Don't tithe. I don't care. But, be careful about projecting such negativity on those who do and the ministries that utilize them to do God's work.

Listen. I get what you’re saying. I don’t disagree with most of what you’re saying. I do agree that we out to be generous with our finances and possessions, for the earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof. It’s His. But if you taught on the tithe you’d realize that almost every instance, it has to do with food and a portion that’s stored up for the poor and widows, also the Levite’s because they had no inheritance in the land,

We should be open to give out even if we ourselves are in need, as well make extravagant gifts when so moved by the spirit. But one can also say that are told to give obligatorily may become bitter because if this legalistic application of a vital lesson the Lord is trying to teach us.

Those who passionately refuse to tithe may have been in a situation where they were condemned for not tithing. Maybe the tithing part isn’t the issue but people who are teaching a curse is upon those who don’t tithe or that in some way they are stealing from God to be guilted into putting your money into the plate, is the source of many peoples “foundation of bitterness”. Glad you are one of them. But there are, so why not get rid of this concept that’s causing such distraction and division and if the church needs help then they pitch that to the people and people will give.

 

[topher694]

Listen. I get what you’re saying. I don’t disagree with most of what you’re saying. I do agree that we out to be generous with our finances and possessions, for the earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof. It’s His. But if you taught on the tithe you’d realize that almost every instance, it has to do with food and a portion that’s stored up for the poor and widows, also the Levite’s because they had no inheritance in the land,

We should be open to give out even if we ourselves are in need, as well make extravagant gifts when so moved by the spirit. But one can also say that are told to give obligatorily may become bitter because if this legalistic application of a vital lesson the Lord is trying to teach us.

Those who passionately refuse to tithe may have been in a situation where they were condemned for not tithing. Maybe the tithing part isn’t the issue but people who are teaching a curse is upon those who don’t tithe or that in some way they are stealing from God to be guilted into putting your money into the plate, is the source of many peoples “foundation of bitterness”. Glad you are one of them. But there are, so why not get rid of this concept that’s causing such distraction and division and if the church needs help then they pitch that to the people and people will give.

Heard it before. Studied it in depth. Could debunk it. Not going to, cause I have places to be.

Just because some people abuse the truth doesn't mean that we refuse the truth. The wrong behaviors of man do not negate the principles of God.

 

[KyleSpringer]

Heard it before. Studied it in depth. Could debunk it. Not going to, cause I have places to be.

Just because some people abuse the truth doesn't mean that we refuse the truth. The wrong behaviors of man do not negate the principles of God.

And if someone takes Gods principles and twists it, like obligation to the tithe, makes it heresy.

 

[Shimokita]

I will never tithe again. Convince me I should.

I pray that the Lord is with you all.

Amen brother! And you may start by giving to me!

Twenty thousand cash.

 

[topher694]

And if someone takes Gods principles and twists it, like obligation to the tithe, makes it heresy.

Then by extension if you are mistaken then you're pushing heresy... Uh oh

 

[KyleSpringer]

Then by extension if you are mistaken then you're pushing heresy... Uh oh

Am I? Questioning the obligatory nature of the tithe that is propagated in contemporary Christianity? Obviously I could be wrong, but I think it’s wiser to be reluctant to tithe weekly as an obligation to “your church” and give when God has pressed it upon your heart to serve a purpose, not your ego.

There are many wrong incentives for tithing as well, and until this subject is addressed properly and we can conform to a biblical understanding of it, we should give when it’s needed and continue being generous with what we have.

 

[topher694]

Am I? Questioning the obligatory nature of the tithe that is propagated in contemporary Christianity? Obviously I could be wrong, but I think it’s wiser to be reluctant to tithe weekly as an obligation to “your church” and give when God has pressed it upon your heart to serve a purpose, not your ego.

There are many wrong incentives for tithing as well, and until this subject is addressed properly and we can conform to a biblical understanding of it, we should give when it’s needed and continue being generous with what we have.

Seriously dude, listen to yourself: questioning Christiananity, reluctant to give, "your church", "your ego". The problem here isn't the tithe, it's what the tithe reveals.

 

[KyleSpringer]

Amen brother! And you may start by giving to me!

Twenty thousand cash.

For your private jet or Lamborghini?

 

[KyleSpringer]

Seriously dude, listen to yourself: questioning Christiananity, reluctant to give, "your church", "your ego". The problem here isn't the tithe, it's what the tithe reveals.

Yeah, double standards and dysfunctional theology.

If you planted and built a church in Africa, would you teach them that they are commanded to tithe? I mean honestly, don’t start a project that you can’t afford to finish or fund without burdening the people whom you plan to serve.

You want to talk about revealing. My former pastor throws an extremely formal dinner and called it the “next level dinner” event. At the event, we were told about their desire to raise 50 thousand dollars in 2019 so they can remodel the basement into a young adult ministry. That’s great, but we were challenged to give 10% of our annual household income to help fund it. Don’t talk to me about revealing when my eyes were opened to how the tithe how the tithe can be used as a manipulation tactic, and the fact that they obtained their goal before feb, 2019 makes me believe that there was no waiting on the Lord or dependence upon his provision.

But I’m not generous if i not handing in my 10% every week. Say what you like, but I love serving God with my money. It’s the people that push for things like mandatory tithe that are unjust.

 

[topher694]

Yeah, double standards and dysfunctional theology.

If you planted and built a church in Africa, would you teach them that they are commanded to tithe? I mean honestly, don’t start a project that you can’t afford to finish or fund without burdening the people whom you plan to serve.

You want to talk about revealing. My former pastor throws an extremely formal dinner and called it the “next level dinner” event. At the event, we were told about their desire to raise 50 thousand dollars in 2019 so they can remodel the basement into a young adult ministry. That’s great, but we were challenged to give 10% of our annual household income to help fund it. Don’t talk to me about revealing when my eyes were opened to how the tithe how the tithe can be used as a manipulation tactic, and the fact that they obtained their goal before feb, 2019 makes me believe that there was no waiting on the Lord or dependence upon his provision.

But I’m not generous if i not handing in my 10% every week. Say what you like, but I love serving God with my money. It’s the people that push for things like mandatory tithe that are unjust.

You keep pointing to the bad behavior. I get it. But, what about the church you go to now (or the one you are searching for)? Do you identify with their vision? Do you approve of how they serve their community? Does the teaching inspire and encourage you? If so, then what's the issue giving to them? You are supporting things that you agree and identify with. If they are doing something clearly wrong, then sure, move on, but that doesn't make giving wrong, even the tithe. That being said, talking about giving isn't wrong, it's biblical. Guilting people into giving is wrong. So support something you can get behind, but there are plenty of good ministries doing good work that deserve to be supported and not undermined and scrutinized.