i will be a 'non' believer from noW!

pleasantgyrl · Apr 11, 2005

First I don't see how an "Atheist" can be at all. Can one prove there is NO God. Isn't an Atheist suppose to be one who believes there is no God. I'm not being sarcastic, I sincerly would like to understand

heron · Apr 12, 2005

My atheist friends are always searching for spiritual solutions, so I think it's uncanny...they insist they don't want to believe in God, but they are the most active seekers. One friend doesn't believe in God, but says they have a soft spot for Jesus, and investigates new religions regularly. I wonder why someone would want a religion if they didn't want a god. I'm guessing they don't see themselves associating with the Judeo-Christian social groups they've seen (too suburban, too glib, too dedicated to one train of thought). I'm not trying to be insulting or arrogant...if any atheists are reading this, feel free to give your views.

asjs1206 · Apr 12, 2005

I will pray for you-you obviously are struggling in your journey towards God. God loves each and every one of us even when we deny who he really is. I would like to share a scripture: its in I John 5:11-12

And this is the testimony; God has given us Eternal life, and this Life is in his son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

sin_vladimirov · Apr 19, 2005

O, God the Father, Creator of all creation.
O, Lord Christus Jesus, our King and saviour.
O, Holy Spirit, the Giver of live.

To You Glory Glory Glory now and ever and unto the ages of ages. Amin.

Through the neverending prayers of the Church in Heaven and all of the people faith following the intercessions of the Holy Church Triumphant, I, sinner pray to You, Our Most Holy Trinity, the Fountain of Love and Charity to firstly remember Your Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church which has been purchased by precious blood of our Lord Christus Jesus (the Lover of humanity).

I also pray to You, Most Holy Trinity for those who are departing from the vision of faith, dazzled by destroying heresies of the modern times, enlighten them, O Lord by the light of Your holy wisdom and unite them with your inheritance here on this planet. Help them to follow the Way and give them right light of vision to see Your glory so that they might be partakers in Your Holy Eternal Communion.

Save, O Lord, and have mercy on all who find it hard to follow your orders left to us.

Save, O Lord and have mercy on all those who are being tempted by the evil one.

Lord have mercy.
Lord have mercy.
Lord Jesus Chirst, have mercy on me, sinner.

in ICXC
Stefan+

street_skater_14 · Apr 22, 2005

Can one prove there is NO God.

Can one prove there is?

sin_vladimirov · Apr 23, 2005

Street Skater, my dear friend, you, and God have mercy, are coming from angle that is somewhat an empty argument.

You see, atheists HAVE TO prove that there is no God, because the first rule of atheism is empiria (proof of the fact).

We, people who believe that there is God and that He is Love and kind to human kin, from Whom there is salvation, DO NOT NEED TO PROVE ANYTHING.

Proving means knowing.

WE believe.
Believing and knowing are two different things.

So, God love you, study more, knowing why you are an atheist is even harder than believing.

Lord have mercy.

in ICXC
stefan+

paulnoel · Apr 24, 2005

NaAsThIk said:
i've read a lot about all the relegions,gods......and spoke to several people .........and now.....i came to a conclusion that God migh tnot exist.......and as a man of science...i've read some papers related to existence of God!.....now ...
i am confused ...weather i should remain as athiest or be a budhist!

anyhow it doest matter, as a lover of peace i will like Jesus as a mesiah of peace!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"DONT try to KILL your DESIRES,
try to WIN them!"

--me!

Read this!
^
^
^
^

Mercedes18 · Apr 24, 2005

Anybody interested in Relativism? please send me an email and we can talk about it and I've got a great website you can visit
your_reality_not_mine@yahoo.com

Taake · Apr 25, 2005

sin_vladimirov said:
Street Skater, my dear friend, you, and God have mercy, are coming from angle that is somewhat an empty argument.

You see, atheists HAVE TO prove that there is no God, because the first rule of atheism is empiria (proof of the fact).

We, people who believe that there is God and that He is Love and kind to human kin, from Whom there is salvation, DO NOT NEED TO PROVE ANYTHING.

Proving means knowing.

WE believe.
Believing and knowing are two different things.

So, God love you, study more, knowing why you are an atheist is even harder than believing.

Lord have mercy.

in ICXC
stefan+

Proving is knowing, and as someone is court is not guilty until proven guilty, god does not exist until proven so. Basically, your idea of god is an hypothesis, it's an assumption you've made which can declare certain phenomena. This is just one of an infinity of possibilities, and since there is not prove for it, the chance of your god existing is one devided by infinity, thus infinitely small. Us Atheists consider that too small a chance to base our whole life upon.

sin_vladimirov · Apr 25, 2005

Taake, well I am glad to know.

Lets define some words, so I can show that you are confusing terms.

Proving is (by the definition) demonstaration that some statement is true; Establishing the valitidy of something.

Knowing is (by the definition) clear and certain mental apprehension.

Proving is, therefore, NOT knowing. You are confusing the terms.

You see I had a good post, full of sarcasm. It was great. But, then, I decided not to send it. I noticed your age, and your views are not your fault... nobodys are.

So, instead, lets talk about mathematics given that you are talking about chance of existence of God (can you for my sake use capital G, please, it would be much appreciated).

You said that this (existence of God) is just one of an infinity of possibilities and then you go on to say about prove for God and that it is infinitely small.

I ask you to do a research into this statement of yours, because you will find that infinitely small is still a number. Number that IS a POSSIBILITY. At the same time you will find that any one of those OTHER infinity of possibilities comes to, about, the same value.

Now.

What do you believe, I do not know.

What do you know? Well this is a big one, because if you are realistic, you will accept that whatever you know about those CERTAIN PHENOMENA is actually an assumption that creates your own hypothesis, that is also one of an infinity of possibilities, and since there is no prove for it (them), the chance of God existing is not any smaller then any of your assumptions being correct. That is to say, my assumption (God) and your assumption(s) (whatever it might be)are mathematically in the same range.

So to conclude I find you argument somewhat, well, shall we say shallow.. without any malice.

Keep trying friend.. one day on your voyages you will find God.... and trust me, that is not an assumption.

Peace to you.

in ICXC
stefan+

Taake · Apr 25, 2005

sin_vladimirov said:
Proving means knowing.

sin_vladimirov said:
Proving is, therefore, NOT knowing. You are confusing the terms.

Hmmm

You are right about any hypothesis having an infinitely small posibility of being true, but since proving is demonstrating that something is valid, it's not a hypothesis anymore. The thing is, a lot of scientific matters are basicly hypothesis. What you might not have understood is that as long as it is unclear, I say I simply do not know. Therefore, the change of the God as described in the bible to exist is infinitely small, and the chance that whether there is a God or not, with any open end on appearance BUT the one in the Bible, is basicly 1-1/inf. And you are right about that I do not know a lot, actually I'm not sure if I exist or what existence is. I haven't yet concluded what my ideology is (yet).

Still a bit sad you haven't posted that sarcastic reply as well, I'm curious now.

Thanks and hails, Misha

heron · Apr 25, 2005

Can one prove there is?

Can we prove that King Henry VIII existed? We have writings about him, artifacts, a few paintings... can we know for sure that he wasn't invented?

The writings of the OT and NT are accounts of events, documented just as reliably as other historical accounts of the times. Can we prove any of them? They interrelate, so our knowledge of history is based on a certain amount of faith.

Do we know that the Matrix concept isn't true?

darlajenkins · Apr 25, 2005

I agree with Nothingbuttheblood. Jesus is God, not some dopey hippie with cool ideas. We should worship Him. He is not a MTV icon.

sin_vladimirov · Apr 25, 2005

Taake, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I like using it and I do, in many occasions, however I do not think that sarcasm would be an appropriate tool of argument in this case (because sarcasm is a very bad tool of argument indeed, bad enough to be considered by many NOT to be a tool of argument at all).

My point is that whatever the reasons (of empirical mind such as yours*) for failure of acceptance of God the same reasons should imply (by using the same methodology of empirical thinking) that every other hypotesis should be prone to failure of acceptance. Given, again, that mathematical chance of any of those hypotesis' are simililar or even smaller, I wish to ask why such 'adverse' reaction to God?

I am aware that in your society (not a judgement), it might be not 'cool' for one to deem his life closely connected with God but all I wish to say is that God is not always what our society portrays Him to be.

It is our place in life, connection to nature of it, security of existence of now and hope for the future that I wish that you for youself, at your age, consider God to be, atleast, a possible reality and to give Him a chance. Nothing more.

You see, it is a modern development that scientific community 'considers' idea of God to be a 'cave mans' view of natural processes. All of the great minds, and indeed what one may call Fathers and Mothers of modern science, have believed in God. That did not constrict them in making great discoveries in the field of their specialisation. If you wish to admit the difference between Fathers and Mothers of science (scientist Theists of the past) and sons and daughters (atheist scients of today) is, apart from clear view of God, the actuall FAILURE to produce any new laws of science and indeed base their life in re-working the works of Great Minds.

I might be missing the point completely, but I do not wish you to base your all life on some scientific postulate for the sake of it, when the same scientific postulate proves that all the hypotesis of our time are actually very close in area of mathematical (scientific) chance.

Friend, I am not, never, against science. It is a great tool by which the human kind is developing the thought and indeed life.

I believe that science is from God, thus she is a good thing, because from God nothing bad comes. But as everything else in our lives if we separate the tool of God from God we are creating new gods. The fact is that science herself, not degrading her but trying to explain, has not improved our lives. I mean, we might be driving better cars (and God have mercy on me, I loooove a good car); or we might be going into space or whatever else, but ARE YOU AS A HUMAN BEING really HAPPY?

I will make an assumption, about you, and if I am mistaken forgive me (if I am mistaken try to imagine hundreds of thousands of other people of your age).
You are studying what you dont like so you can get a job that you will hate in order to buy the things that you do not need, the things that will NOT make you happy, or will do so for a very, very short time. It is like a computer game that at the start makes you happy and then... it doesnt. These are the lives of us. Chasing the uncatchable. Looking for invisable. Hoping for unthinkable.

This is where God comes in. Only when you expirience the empty spaces of our life you might realise that those mathematical odds for existance of Gos are not that small... and that in the end they do not matter.

I hope for the best for youm whatever it might be.

*empirical mind is good, Einstein, Newton, Pascale and others had it... and in with it they reached God.

in ICXC
stefan+

Taake · Apr 26, 2005

sin_vladimirov said:
Taake, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I like using it and I do, in many occasions, however I do not think that sarcasm would be an appropriate tool of argument in this case (because sarcasm is a very bad tool of argument indeed, bad enough to be considered by many NOT to be a tool of argument at all).

My point is that whatever the reasons (of empirical mind such as yours*) for failure of acceptance of God the same reasons should imply (by using the same methodology of empirical thinking) that every other hypotesis should be prone to failure of acceptance. Given, again, that mathematical chance of any of those hypotesis' are simililar or even smaller, I wish to ask why such 'adverse' reaction to God?

I am aware that in your society (not a judgement), it might be not 'cool' for one to deem his life closely connected with God but all I wish to say is that God is not always what our society portrays Him to be.

It is our place in life, connection to nature of it, security of existence of now and hope for the future that I wish that you for youself, at your age, consider God to be, atleast, a possible reality and to give Him a chance. Nothing more.

You see, it is a modern development that scientific community 'considers' idea of God to be a 'cave mans' view of natural processes. All of the great minds, and indeed what one may call Fathers and Mothers of modern science, have believed in God. That did not constrict them in making great discoveries in the field of their specialisation. If you wish to admit the difference between Fathers and Mothers of science (scientist Theists of the past) and sons and daughters (atheist scients of today) is, apart from clear view of God, the actuall FAILURE to produce any new laws of science and indeed base their life in re-working the works of Great Minds.

I might be missing the point completely, but I do not wish you to base your all life on some scientific postulate for the sake of it, when the same scientific postulate proves that all the hypotesis of our time are actually very close in area of mathematical (scientific) chance.

Friend, I am not, never, against science. It is a great tool by which the human kind is developing the thought and indeed life.

I believe that science is from God, thus she is a good thing, because from God nothing bad comes. But as everything else in our lives if we separate the tool of God from God we are creating new gods. The fact is that science herself, not degrading her but trying to explain, has not improved our lives. I mean, we might be driving better cars (and God have mercy on me, I loooove a good car); or we might be going into space or whatever else, but ARE YOU AS A HUMAN BEING really HAPPY?

I will make an assumption, about you, and if I am mistaken forgive me (if I am mistaken try to imagine hundreds of thousands of other people of your age).
You are studying what you dont like so you can get a job that you will hate in order to buy the things that you do not need, the things that will NOT make you happy, or will do so for a very, very short time. It is like a computer game that at the start makes you happy and then... it doesnt. These are the lives of us. Chasing the uncatchable. Looking for invisable. Hoping for unthinkable.

This is where God comes in. Only when you expirience the empty spaces of our life you might realise that those mathematical odds for existance of Gos are not that small... and that in the end they do not matter.

I hope for the best for youm whatever it might be.

*empirical mind is good, Einstein, Newton, Pascale and others had it... and in with it they reached God.

in ICXC
stefan+

First of all, I'll staighten these assumptions you've made. I do not study something I do not like, it fits me best of whatever other study or job. I do not study to make money, I study to make a living, and to make a difference. In order to be remembered for who I were. So basically, I study for selfenrichment in many forms. My job will be a mechanical engeneer, which has been my hobby for a long time. I do no play computergames, considering my age this seems a little obvious, but I do see what you mean here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to have a certain view on faith (taken the last paragraph) I can respect: for you, God is a tool to live a happy life, it does matter if he exists, it only matters for you to know he exists, and you can admit that. (I concluded that from the sentence "Only when you expirience the empty spaces of our life you might realise that those mathematical odds for existance of Gos are not that small... and that in the end they do not matter", but I take it I'm wrong). Sometimes believing in some disembodied being can help find the way in the world. A being that constitutes an essence of what you profess and follow. A being that exist only in your dreams and never falls prey to sestemic arrangments of religions and philosophies. If I ever were to believe in God, it would be like this.

In the first part of your monologue, you tell me that science has not made our lives happier. I ask you first to define what happyness is, and what us is. I don't think science directly has made us happier people, progression does. And progression of the human race occurs trough many systems including science. In this I take us as every person allive, and happyness as an expression for a ratio of joy and sadness. In a very simple and flat example, if I buy a waterboiler (progression), I'll find myself in joy every time I do not have to boil water manually. Ofcourse this can be projected on all different matters greater than this simple example.

sin_vladimirov · May 1, 2005

Dear Taake, I will send you an answer soon.

quarter21 · May 4, 2005

hey man! how are you doing? I hope great... and if you aren't a guy sorry for calling you one.

have you by any chance read the case for Christ and case for Faith by lee strobel? just out of curiosity. they seemed to be good books.

God bless! hope to hear from you soon!

Tino

Cian · May 26, 2005

Also, Buddhist don't believe in God. Just enlightenment. So if you are a Buddhist you are still technically an athiest.

First of all, please show me proof of this statement.

As for this argument on believing in Jesus as God or a moral teacher. You can come to the conclusion that Jesus was a good teacher with a good message, yet still do not believe him to be God. I realize most of you are Christian and cannot possibly consider your God to be false, but Jesus was most likely just another prophet. Consider the time period, Jerusalem under the rule of Rome, when people are subjected to oppression they will blindly follow one who is charismatic. This was the perfect time for Jesus to enter the stage and create reforms.

Yes I respect Jesus's teachings but do not believe Christianity has followed it very well. Countless wars have been fought in the name of Jesus, the Crusades, the Wars of Religion in the 16th century, right on through the Age of Discovery, when Conquistadores slaughtered and subjugated Native peoples.

As Nietzche once said "The only true Christian died on the cross."

PassionateChemistry · May 30, 2005

NaAsThIk said:
i've read a lot about all the relegions,gods......and spoke to several people .........and now.....i came to a conclusion that God migh tnot exist.......and as a man of science...i've read some papers related to existence of God!.....now ...
i am confused ...weather i should remain as athiest or be a budhist!

anyhow it doest matter, as a lover of peace i will like Jesus as a mesiah of peace!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"DONT try to KILL your DESIRES,
try to WIN them!"

--me!

it is easier to believe in Christ than in God; what makes you disbelieve in God?

i will be a 'non' believer from noW!

Active Member

Legend

Member

Not anymore

New Member

Not anymore

Grace and peace be yours in abundance!!!

Member

Active Member

Not anymore

Active Member

Legend

Member

Not anymore

Active Member

Not anymore

Active Member

Síocháin ar Talamh!

PassionateChemistry

Guest

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency