I want you all to use logic to prove to me that God exists

Italianguy · Feb 14, 2011

elman said:
If you are saying the Bible is perfect then the Bible is correct when it says Jesus is the Word--not the Bible. There are many contradictions in the Bible. All have been alleged to have been explained, but the explanations are not adequate for me. Example--God is good and truth according to Jesus and God sent a lying spirit according to Kings and is the source of evil according to Isiah.

Why is that a contradiction? Are you reading it in ITS context, or how you would like it to seem? You question it?

elman · Feb 14, 2011

Italianguy said:
Why is that a contradiction? Are you reading it in ITS context, or how you would like it to seem? You question it?

In context good means not evil. Why would you think it not contrdictory for God to be good and then do evil? or be truthful and send a lying spirit? Context is not an adequate explanation.

leftrightleftrightleft · Feb 14, 2011

ReasoningIsStrong said:
I have been an atheist for about 12 years now, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to church until I was 7, when I couldn't take it anymore. Due to all the Bible's contradictions and obscure punishments, I decided that any gods could not exist.

So I want you guys to do that. Use logic to prove your god exists.

Its very hard to prove God's existance in any kind of logical, scientific methodology because it will ultimately come down to you subjectively commiting to being faithful to God's existance. Its an entirely different way of viewing existance in a being because, scientifically, it would be quite easy to define it as delusional. But just because science defines it as delusional does not mean that it is untrue, it just means that science might be wrong.

I personally think the most convincing evidence of an intelligence in the universe comes from the fact that a universe that came about via random processes can so poignantly be described by approimately 12 mathematical equations.

I also find quantum mechanics to have some disturbing contradictions inherent in it, such as entanglement contradicting the notion of the ultimate speed of light, and these contradictions may be just perceived contradictions that can in fact be explained by some intelligent creator.

I also find the uncertainty principle to be more likely a result of a perceived randomness when in fact it is actually a mathematically ordered determinism similar to Newtonian mechanics. Perhaps God drives this determinism.

ddjones1230 · Feb 14, 2011

drich0150 · Feb 14, 2011

Regardless of the actual words Christ used in Aramaic, we have been charged with what is recorded in (this case) Luke 11 as the complete word of God. This means despite the historical accuracy (Which as you have testified, no one can account for.) The words contained in the bible are what a righteous God will Judge by. If those words are not accurate then it is up to that Righteous God to Change them, or forgive us for following the account. This is not our concern or responsibility. Our's begins and ends with what we have been given. So no matter what was actually said, You will be judged by the record of scripture we know as the bible.

Now to what Christ said in Luke 11. your "account" does indeed conflict with what Christ Jesus was recorded in saying. Now either you are saying He does not know what He is talking about, (Which would imply He is not God) He was lying, or your saying you did not follow the instructions that were given in Luke 11. you simply matched up certain aspects of your semi earnest efforts to one or possibly two of the requirements that are found in Luke 11 and misrepresented your work as a complete effort. I know this to be an incomplete work because of the scope and depth of your questions, your mis representation of scripture, and the simply fact that you stopped knocking.

did you read the parable I left? Because in the biblical account the Persistent neighbor did not stop knocking till He got what he Needed. When did you stop knocking? What was your time limit?

So in your best estimation what does the bible say will happen? If I am wrong in my assumptions then please tell me what biblical description where you holding out for?

I do that why i took the time to respond to your observations in post number: 16. apparently "your drift" isn't really yours at all. It seem to be a cop-out so one does not have to address the actual merit in the analogy i used to illustrate the spiritual hole in your life that is keeping you from God, and your spiritual walk with Him... But, if you wish to focus on the physical 'points" you have highlighted, so you can win an argument then I will be happy to concede this point to you..

Walter Kovacs · Feb 14, 2011

I'm curious, can you use logic to prove logic? Or to prove reason or rationality? It's a pretty circular argument, if you haven't tried.

"There are also those who do not distinguish between faith and reason because they view reason itself as a leap of faith. In most disciplines reason is taken for granted, but an actual philosophical justification of it is ridiculously hard to make (unless you're a Christian of course). How could one go about explaining or discovering the nature of reason? It's not something you can see or touch, so you would have to arrive at it by rational arguments. But if we need to use rational arguments to prove the validity of Reason (aka rational argumentation) then we are clearly being circular because we assume the very conclusion at the outset that we wish to try to prove. So in effect, reason actually has no justification."

Also, out of curiosity, have you ever seen anyone else's mind?

iwannarock · Feb 14, 2011

use logic to prove he doesnt exist.

the blade is curved on both sides. It is one of those half and half questions where there is no way of kowing (yet) which answer is correct.

so pick a side and hope it's the right one.

LifeToTheFullest! · Feb 15, 2011

iwannarock said:
use logic to prove he doesnt exist.

the blade is curved on both sides. It is one of those half and half questions where there is no way of kowing (yet) which answer is correct.

so pick a side and hope it's the right one.

Atheism is simply reading the texts, understanding their claims, and concluding it's ridiculous. It is a rejection of supernatural claims based on personal supernatural revelations. Nothing more.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claims. As Sagan said, "extraordinary claims requires extraordinary proof."

Walter Kovacs · Feb 15, 2011

I disagree with Sagan. Sufficient proof, not magnificent, is what is required.

LifeToTheFullest! · Feb 15, 2011

Walter Kovacs said:
I disagree with Sagan. Sufficient proof, not magnificent, is what is required.

Sufficient beyond a reasonable doubt.

Walter Kovacs · Feb 15, 2011

Fair enough.

Yekcidmij · Feb 15, 2011

ReasoningIsStrong said:
Due to all the Bible's contradictions and obscure punishments, I decided that any gods could not exist.

If you could only see the irony between your screen name and the conclusion you drew here, LOL

razeontherock · Feb 15, 2011

iwannarock said:
use logic to prove he doesnt exist.

the blade is curved on both sides. It is one of those half and half questions where there is no way of kowing (yet) which answer is correct.

so pick a side and hope it's the right one.

This is NOT what is meant by "Hope!"

razeontherock · Feb 15, 2011

LifeToTheFullest! said:
Atheism is simply reading the texts, understanding their claims, and concluding it's ridiculous. It is a rejection of supernatural claims based on personal supernatural revelations. Nothing more.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claims. As Sagan said, "extraordinary claims requires extraordinary proof."

This is a good representation of a closed mind. In context, what you would see (if you had an open mind) is any such proof is up to the individual believer.

Instead you stand there with your hands on your hips, expecting somebody else to do the heavy lifting. This is a proven path to failure, as our OP can attest.

elman · Feb 16, 2011

razeontherock said:
This is NOT what is meant by "Hope!"

I sort of think it is. To assume no Creator is to have no hope of destiny except oblivion and no ultimate meaning to our existence. To assume a loving Creator that can be a part of both this life and the one beyond this life is to have hope of destiny and meaning.

elman · Feb 16, 2011

ReasoningIsStrong said:
I have been an atheist for about 12 years now, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to church until I was 7, when I couldn't take it anymore. Due to all the Bible's contradictions and obscure punishments, I decided that any gods could not exist.

So I want you guys to do that. Use logic to prove your god exists.

You cannot prove the existence of God. The Bible having contradictions simply refers to the Bible not being inerrant. It has nothing at all to do with the non existence of a loving Creator.

DiligentlySeekingGod · Feb 26, 2011

According to Scripture, people are without excuse for not believing in God.

Romans 1:18-20 (Romans 1:18-32) clearly explains this.

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." (emphasis added)

God has revealed Himself through His creation, through His Word and through His Son, Jesus Christ.

The truth of the matter is this, no one will have an excuse when they stand before Him in judgment.

fwiwwl · Feb 26, 2011

ReasoningIsStrong said:
I have been an atheist for about 12 years now, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to church until I was 7, when I couldn't take it anymore. Due to all the Bible's contradictions and obscure punishments, I decided that any gods could not exist.

So I want you guys to do that. Use logic to prove your god exists.

It's a bummer you had to go through all that. It happens a lot. I could give you all my logic about entropy and evolution, critters and instincts, about visions and foretelling of coming events................all that would be just as debatable as proving God (Father) does exist. In all the years being told what to believe did you ever, just truthfully, ask Him to reveal Himself? If He doesn't then you will be right and can remain an atheist.

Fwiw....W.L.

BeeWrangler · Feb 26, 2011

ReasoningIsStrong said:
I have been an atheist for about 12 years now, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to church until I was 7, when I couldn't take it anymore. Due to all the Bible's contradictions and obscure punishments, I decided that any gods could not exist.

So I want you guys to do that. Use logic to prove your god exists.

The logic to me is that a part of you is still holding on and knows the truth, that Jesus is real. If not, you would not be in a Christian forum asking questions right now, anymore than I would want to waist my time in a forum that believes alien beings created the universe. I am not on such a forum due to it would be so far beyond a waist of my time to even read one single post on the forum that I would be better off taking that time and counting coffee grinds in my coffee maker. Don't get me wrong, I am very glad you are here and asking questions, I hope God opens heart and lifts the veil from your eyes and helps you over come your doubts.

BleedingHeart · Feb 27, 2011

DiligentlySeekingGod said:
According to Scripture, people are without excuse for not believing in God.

Because an assertion is good enough right?

I want you all to use logic to prove to me that God exists

Also known as Iguy! The follower of Christ.

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