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I want to know some things about Wesleyan churches

JesusFo11ower

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As you probably know, I'm trying to find the right church for me. I have tried Baptist, Church of God, Assembly of God, Lutheran, and Nazarene. I drove past a Wesleyan church today and talked to the pastor briefly, he told me it's more conservative than methodist (which I like) and that it's more contemporary. But what I want to know is, what is their theology like? I want to go somewhere that baptizes three ways, has baby baptism, and has women clergy. Do these apply with a Wesleyan church? They aren't deal breakers though, by the way.
 
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GraceSeeker

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You will find a sticky to tell a bit about them at the top of the sub-forum directory listing all the threads in the WP.

There are not a whole lot of Wesleyans on CF (or in the country for that matter), and I'm not a member of the Wesleyan Church either. But from my contact with them in local ministerial alliances, I can tell you that their theology is not a whole lot different from that of the UMC or Free Methodists. The separation of these three Wesleyan faith communities took place in the mid 19th century when the country was being torn apart politically more than theologically. The initial separation of the Wesleyans from the larger group had to do with their early abolitionist stance. When people talk about Wesleyans being more conservative than UMC they don't mean theologically as much as they mean culturally or on social issues. Of the churches you have been too in the past the one that is going to be most like the Wesleyan Church is the Church of God, but be aware that local congregations of the same denomination can sometimes vary more from one another than different denominations all located in the same community vary. Local flavor has come to mean more than denominational affiliation in the last 20-40 years.
 
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graceandpeace

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The Wesleyan Church does ordain women. I am not certain if they baptize infants. The UMC does, CotN offers it or baby dedication, & CoG Anderson only allows for baby dedication - so it seems to vary by the denomination within Methodism.

My in laws attend a Wesleyan church & I've been to the church a few times. My experiences were negative. It was only one church, though, so I can't comment on the denomination as a whole.
 
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BryanW92

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Everything you need to know about a denomination can usually be found on their main website under the "What we believe" section (or words to that effect). Here's the position statements for everything under the sun for the Wesleyan Church.

Position Statements | The Wesleyan Church
 
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GraceSeeker

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I can't seem to find anything that answers my questions in the stickies.

Here's the lead post from the thread I was referring to: http://www.christianforums.com/t6404471/#post40598511


From there I was able to get to the following posts made by the Wesleyan Church:
With regard to women in ministry A Wesleyan View of Women in Ministry | The Wesleyan Church

Baptism for children Keys to Kids Ministry | The Wesleyan Church
Wesleyans will baptize children, but believe they need to be old enough to understand what is happening. Thus, it is a form of believers baptism. I don't know if they are open to modes other than immersion or not. As I have been surfing through there website I've not found anything specifically stated, but all photos and descriptions are of immersion baptisms of adults or teens.
 
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BryanW92

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Wesleyans will baptize children, but believe they need to be old enough to understand what is happening. Thus, it is a form of believers baptism. I don't know if they are open to modes other than immersion or not. As I have been surfing through there website I've not found anything specifically stated, but all photos and descriptions are of immersion baptisms of adults or teens.

From what I could glean from several Wesleyan Church websites, they do baptize infants, they do not rebaptize as long as you were baptized as a Christian, but if they baptize you, it looks like it will be by immersion.
 
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graceandpeace

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What was negative if you don't mind me asking? Was it something that happens within all Wesleyan churches or was it something someone in particular did?

Well, like I said I can't comment on the denomination as a whole. I don't want to potentially break forum rules, so I will message you.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Well, like I said I can't comment on the denomination as a whole. I don't want to potentially break forum rules, so I will message you.


Unless you plan on preaching at us, we in the WP are quite willing to follow Wesley's practice of Christian conversation. It's even OK to disagree with something we do, especially if you experienced something that was disagreeable to you. We just ask that you own it as something your disagreed with rather than telling us how we were therefore wrong for us. Respect that any mistakes are ours to correct rather than yours to correct for us. But don't be afraid to tell us that you didn't appreciate something in one of our churches, we find it important to understand how others perceive us.
 
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graceandpeace

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Unless you plan on preaching at us, we in the WP are quite willing to follow Wesley's practice of Christian conversation. It's even OK to disagree with something we do, especially if you experienced something that was disagreeable to you. We just ask that you own it as something your disagreed with rather than telling us how we were therefore wrong for us. Respect that any mistakes are ours to correct rather than yours to correct for us. But don't be afraid to tell us that you didn't appreciate something in one of our churches, we find it important to understand how others perceive us.

Ok. :)

Well this was specifically with the Wesleyan church I visited a few times because of family. Honestly, I thought the pastor was far too condemning of gays & it is required for those who want to join to sign a contract promising not to drink alcohol.

Having been Methodist, I understand the social justice issues surrounding alcohol & such, but the contract thing was weird & I never encountered that even during my time in CoG Anderson, which I perceive as more conservative than the UMC & is probably similar in that regard to the Wesleyan denom.

And as far as gays, it is one thing to disagree with gay marriage or to think it's sinful, but this pastor really piled on the rhetoric & was so angry about it...it was just too harsh, IMO. Unfortunately, I had a similar experience in a local CotN (not the one I was a member of in the past). People in the congregation actually started applauding during a (not so veiled) attack on homosexuality...
 
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GraceSeeker

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Sorry to hear about the piling on. In my opinion, even when one can clearly identify something that is universally considered a sin -- let's say robbing banks -- it doesn't do a lot of good for the church too pile on even then. Certainly name it for what it is, but then remember we are in the grace not guilting business (see Acts 7:58; 9:1: 9:11-17). But I also think that these things are local phenomena -- OK, maybe not local, because they are repeated across the country far too frequently in churches of all sorts of denominational backgrounds -- but not linked so much to the theology of the denomination as much as the pastoral skill and prejudices of the faith community itself.

Now, one thing that may be a bearing on this is that Wesleyan pastors often have less education than say in the UMC. We in the UMC do employ local pastors who have just been to a short summer school type of course, but these are the exception. Seminary training is the exception in the Wesleyan Church.
 
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JesusFo11ower

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Speaking of homosexuality, is the UMC really close to closing the deal on ordaining homosexual clergy? Or even allowing them to be members? I do not believe in either of those being allowed, and this Wesleyan preacher did say that that was something that separates the two denominations is that Wesleyans are not okay with that. I like that.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Speaking of homosexuality, is the UMC really close to closing the deal on ordaining homosexual clergy?
The answer you will get to this question will vary widely depending on who you ask.

This is a decision that can only be made by our General Conference. It meets every 4 years, next in 2016. In 1972 when the newly formed denomination (established in 1968 with the union of the Methodist Episcopal Church and the Evangelical United Brethren Church) finished hammering out its Social Principals, the now famous line about the practice of homosexuality not being compatible with Christian teaching was added to a line about seeing all persons as being of sacred worth. The final approval of that language was nearly 2-to-1. And though it has been debated for decades now, the results have remained remarkably the same (between 60-67% in favor of the existing language).

On the other hand, looking around the UMC in the United States, the numbers have probably moved dramatically to be to remove this language. Now there are significant blocks that not only hold to the existing language and would even probably leave the UMC if the language was ever changed. Many have left just at the hint of other views when some media source quotes a leader in the church with different views. (Be advised, these leaders represent only themselves, or perhaps a committee.) But, only General Conference can speak for the denomination as a whole.

This is significant, because GC is a representative body with delegates being elected on a proportional basis from United Methodist conferences around the world, and around the world the UMC is considerably more conservative than it is in the USA. Whether that will always be the case I don't know. But with the UMC growing overseas, I personally don't see any change likely to occur. On the other hand, with the writing on the wall, I do expect to see a concerted effort by those in the USA who object to the present language to see some sort of change in 2016. This has been pressed for in past meetings of the GC, with each of the last several meetings getting more and more about this item and little more. I suspect 2016 will be the worst yet for with regard to that discussion. But, I think there is a better chance of some sort of change allowing for local option on the matter than of a major denomination-wide change.


Or even allowing them to be members?

We have always allowed homosexuals to be members of the UMC, just like we allow robbers, murderers, rapists, and adulterers. In fact, we have sinners of all sorts a part of not just the members of the UMC, but even among the clergy. I'm sorry, but if you are looking for a body in which we already are completely sanctified, rather than striving to go on to perfection, you would be better off looking elsewhere than the UMC. Maybe give another look to the Nazarenes?

What we ask of our members is that they reject the devil and all his promises, and seek to conform to living a godly life as found taught in the texts of the Old and New Testaments.

In addition we ask our pastors to practice celibacy in singleness and fidelity in marriage. But we don't reject a pastor (or a lay person) simply based on one's sexual orientation.
 
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GraceSeeker

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I officially have decided upon what church I want to attend. I'm not a seeker now, I am going to attend a nearby UMC because I ultimately agree with just about everything Methodist churches stand for.

Very cool!
I'm happy that you've had a successful search and pray blessings of long and fruitful ministry for both you and your selected church.
 
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