I want to know more about Quaker practices

[FireDragon76]

I attended a Quaker meeting a few times on Second Life. There's a meeting house in a nearby town, as well, the service is unplanned. I know a little bit about Quaker practices, mostly through more liberal Quaker sources and reading about the life of George Fox

In the past 2 years I developed gluten intolerance and I've struggled with attending Episcopalian services as a result (I'm technically a Methodist). For me this was the final straw, as I already live in a conservative Episcopalian diocese and I've just stopped attending altogether. So I'm interested in a non-sacramental practice of the Christian faith.

One issue I'm concerned about- I don't consider myself a pacifist. I guess religiously I'm fairly non-dogmatic and liberal, too.

 

[KENIK]

I attended a Quaker meeting a few times on Second Life. There's a meeting house in a nearby town, as well, the service is unplanned. I know a little bit about Quaker practices, mostly through more liberal Quaker sources and reading about the life of George Fox.

In a non-sacramental form of worship, one has to withdraw into the silence of prayer. There is actually thought behind this so that the meeting is not unplanned, merely less unstructured, outwardly. The structure of the worship is internal, not visible to others. There, at that place and time, we pray without outward words, and are so comforted and instructed without outward words, though instructed and comforted by inwardly by the Word.

In the past 2 years I developed gluten intolerance and I've struggled with attending Episcopalian services as a result (I'm technically a Methodist). For me this was the final straw, as I already live in a conservative Episcopalian diocese and I've just stopped attending altogether. So I'm interested in a non-sacramental practice of the Christian faith.

It is too bad about your gluten intolerance. I would suggest that communion with God is largely through direct spiritual immediacy and not through ritual. I would suggest you explore how prayer is fruitfully experienced in silence.

One issue I'm concerned about- I don't consider myself a pacifist. I guess religiously I'm fairly non-dogmatic and liberal, too.

I am not a pacifist either, but I seek peace. The moral distinctions that underlie Quaker pacifism has been undermined by terrorism, but in this, as in everything else, we must seek God's leadings upon it.

Quakers can be very dogmatic, either liberal or conservative. Quakers are non-creedal, though they traditionally accept, when challenged, the Creeds or Symbols of Nicea, Constantinople and Chalcedon.

I would suggest that you read Barclay's Apology. It is a good statement about what most traditional Quakers believe in.

 

[CelticRose]

Quakers traditionally have a wide variety of practices as individual members are guided by conscience & the Holy Spirit, not doctrinal tenets. Nor are they Pacifists, which is a misleading term. They are a *peace* church. The biblical principal of *shalom* is not just the cessation of conflict but includes healing, restoration, wholeness, abundance ~ the fulness of the life of God.

The Quaker, Richard Foster, does an excellent job of explaining prayer in this book & principles of living out faith here

 

[FireDragon76]

Quakers can be very dogmatic, either liberal or conservative. Quakers are non-creedal, though they traditionally accept, when challenged, the Creeds or Symbols of Nicea, Constantinople and Chalcedon.

I've grown wary of the whole concept of creeds to define who is, and is not, truly Christian, that's what I mean by "non-dogmatic". I'm not sure that doctrines and dogmatic statements can capture the essence of being a Christian. A lot of what the creeds talk about as definitive are peripheral to what Jesus actually talked about as being important: they are important for some human beings but not necessarily for God.

I consider myself a "peace-loving" person- most mentally well-adjusted individuals are. However, I can see situations where using violence might be the only moral choice an individual or society can make, even if it is potentially regrettable. That's why I can't see myself being a pacifist.

 

[KENIK]

Friends seek to follow peace and understand that violence may be necessary to enforce the law and to ensure the public safety (the acknowledgement of the "sword of the magistrate"). They are more reluctant about the violence of war (the "sword of the warrior"). This distinction, though, is breaking down with modern terrorism which premises law-breaking as part of a wider dimension of war. This merging of law-breaking with war leads to the moral sundering of the idea of separating the two.I would agree CelticRose and FireDragon76 that peace has a wider and greater inner dimension.

I agree, FireDragon76 that creeds have their limitations. The workings of the Holy Spirit are such that verbal definitions, merely, do not encompass the divine reality. Though creeds may serve as a guide to thinking, they are so very limited.

As our words of prayer enter into the silence, the ineffable, so is the meaning of it all enter into mystery; and, so we enter into a a kind of joyful dance with Our Lord, in that abiding fulfilling love, entering, because of our movement and under the careful direction of our divine partner, into the fleeting meaning of life and then leaving that meaning back into the surrounding mystery. And this is done is quiescence, the seeming opposite of dance.

We live and grow in love, in the silence of prayer.

 

[FireDragon76]

They are more reluctant about the violence of war (the "sword of the warrior"). This distinction, though, is breaking down with modern terrorism which premises law-breaking as part of a wider dimension of war.

Terrorism is just one possible example. I also think of instances like genocide where the morality of war is skewed heavily away from pacifism.

I suppose its my major issue with "peace churches"... while I appreciated the Quakers non-dogmatic, experiential stance towards theology, I've always had the perception that Anabaptists/Quakers have a strong desire to separate from the world and define themselves sometimes by codes of behavior that exclude. In some ways it seems the opposite of Anglicanism/Wesleyanism.

 

[KENIK]

Yes, FireDragon. The paradox of separation from the world whilst being within it is a great paradox. It means that living within paradox is not an easy set of "moral" rules but it is a nuanced discernment and life in the Spirit. This means that "peace" is found, even in the midst of war, even in the midst of genocide. Since we live in the midst of paradox, we must pray that we shall not be hard tested.

 

[walkinginthelightnow]

are they considered pentecostals...apostolics baptists???

 

[KENIK]

are they considered pentecostals...apostolics baptists???

Friends (Quakers) are not considered pentecostals because they do not ordinarily speak in tongues. They are drawn more to silent prayer and the communion with God that comes of it. They seek more for spiritual union with God rather than most anything else, even private revelations, though they are known for the latter. As to the spiritual gifts, they seek more for the gift of prophecy, the speaking of what the Spirit discloses, rather than the gift of tongues. In this they are following the Apostle Paul.

I would recommend that you read Barclay's Apology and Fox's Journals to learn more.

 

[hedrick]

Have you spoken to your pastor about gluten intolerance? After the problem showed up in our church among several members, we have started serving gluten-free bread as an alternative in communion.

I participated in a Friends meeting for a year or so in college. Liberal and undogmatic seems to characterize my experience. Perhaps the group I was in was at one extreme. After all, there are evangelical Friends. But while they admired Jesus, they weren't sure they were even Christian, in the conventional sense. Those in my meeting would have been unlikely to have accepted Nicea.

This seems to vary by region.

 

[KENIK]

Have you spoken to your pastor about gluten intolerance? After the problem showed up in our church among several members, we have started serving gluten-free bread as an alternative in communion.

I participated in a Friends meeting for a year or so in college. Liberal and undogmatic seems to characterize my experience. Perhaps the group I was in was at one extreme. After all, there are evangelical Friends. But while they admired Jesus, they weren't sure they were even Christian, in the conventional sense. Those in my meeting would have been unlikely to have accepted Nicea.

This seems to vary by region.

Yes, hedrick. That has been my experience as well.

There are many Friends (Quakers) who are not traditional and are not Christians. Thankfully, many of them are beginning to recognize themselves for what they truly are, Unitarian Universalists. It is interesting to hear of the change of affiliation of various local Quaker meetings from Friends to Unitarians. So how it goes.