I want to find those who struggle with "hell" idea

[childofGod31]

I want to find those who struggle with "hell" idea. Does the idea of eternal torture distress you? I don't mean for you personally. I mean if you believe that you are saved, but that others are going there...

I mean I see the verses that seem to say that...but it just bothers me...

I want to talk with those who feel the same.

I do NOT want to hear from those who think hell is ok. Please don't quote me the verses, I read them all. At this moment I am not talking about whether this doctrine is right or wrong. I am just talking about "the feelings" it brings.

I remember thinking about witnessing: what should I say: God loves you so much...and He made this eternal torture for those who reject Him... He is very loving....

Having read the verses about "some were chosen before the foundation of the world" I hesitate to tell a person: "God loves you!" I am thinking: but what if he is not the chosen one? What if God doesn't love HIM? Honestly, that's what I was thinking. I am brutally honest. Others might not have a problem telling somebody that even if it wasn't true. But I do.

It's similar to this situation in feelings: say I grew up with this guy and we were best friends from childhood. But then he got involved in mafia. And I still really like this guy and he protects me and really likes me too. But it's like he is two sided: he shows his good side to me: he is fun, good to me, protective of me. But then I know that since he is involved in mafia, he must be killing people. And I would be divided in my affection. How can I approve of what he is doing? How can I be proud of him? I cannot. And yet, I am grateful for him being good to me and protecting me...

So is there anybody out there who has a problem and struggles with this idea?

(By the way, I love God very much, more than anything or anybody...just in case you were wondering about my current state of mind as far as that.)

A note added on 1/28/2010:

I wanted to admit that I started this post in order to find people who struggle like I used to in order to share with them something I discovered very recently. God told me something on this subject. And of course it's easy to believe when God tells you personally. But it's harder for others to believe the same thing. So I prayed that God would help me find the words and the verses to show that truth to others as well. I wrote about it here. http://www.christianforums.com/t7437431/

Those of you, who have a problem with the idea, I hope you read and see for yourself. And the truth will set your spirit free.
And it will even bring you closer to God.

 

[T Man]

I want to find those who struggle with "hell" idea. Does the idea of eternal torture distress you? I don't mean for you personally. I mean if you believe that you are saved, but that others are going there...

I mean I see the verses that seem to say that...but it just bothers me...

I want to talk with those who feel the same.

I do NOT want to hear from those who think hell is ok. Please don't quote me the verses, I read them all. At this moment I am not talking about whether this doctrine is right or wrong. I am just talking about "the feelings" it brings.

I remember thinking about witnessing: what should I say: God loves you so much...and He made this eternal torture for those who reject Him... He is very loving....

Having read the verses about "some were chosen before the foundation of the world" I hesitate to tell a person: "God loves you!" I am thinking: but what if he is not the chosen one? What if God doesn't love HIM? Honestly, that's what I was thinking. I am brutally honest. Others might not have a problem telling somebody that even if it wasn't true. But I do.

So is there anybody out there who has a problem and struggles with this idea?

(By the way, I love God very much, more than anything or anybody...just in case you were wondering about my current state of mind as far as that.)

I can't speak for anyone but me, so what i do is this....

I know His love for me, I feel it everyday. The bottom line I guess, Jesus is not judging us yet, that day will come in His good time. Now is the time to overcome our shortfall, to learn is to make mistakes, Jesus know this. So we have a grace while we learn, so Jesus is Love... However in the truth of Christ and the Word of God, there will come a time when its stops and you take your part in what you have planted.

It makes no differance is one is saved or not saved, speak His truth from the house tops, only God will make the plant grow, so sow the seeds when ever you can. Let God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to the sorting on that day.

As for hell, well I have never been there, but what i can tell you is this, not hearing His voice, not speaking to Him, not feeling Him there is the worst thing I have ever felt in my life, to me that was worst than hell.

So maybe being seperated from Him is hell, maybe its not, but is not a place i wish to return to.

I spend my time focusing on the things i can change, not the things are can't change. My love for Him I can change, its depth, width and lenght. As for the past or future, I can't change so why bother or worry about it. I can't only change the now, so my focus is here. Seek Jesus with all your heart and Spirit now, put Him first in all things not just a few things and the idea of hell will leave you. His truth of Love will be your focus and life.
As for the things to come thats a matter for Jesus, not us.

T Man

 

[capnator]

I do not believe God sends people to eternal torment in Hell. Without going to far into doctrine which you wanted to avoid it is totally inconsistent with God who tells us that the punishment of sin is death.

As for the feelings it brings I think it leads to either of these conclusions, 1. God as a Tyrant, Saddist or whatever leading some to even have a hatred towards God.
or 2. Knowing that God is merciful and loving He would not condemn most people to eternal torture and therefore leads people lower standards, which will ultimately lead them into delusion.

 

[Trust--N--Him]

sure don't want anyone to go to hell, but its not up to me. I guess your choosen your choosen, it is what it is. But i'm sure glad someone saved me from being burned and now all i want to do pretty much is share that faith. I guess those i really really want to save are my friends though, i'll lay it down for them, you feel me?

 

[Alison777]

Doesn't the Bible clearly state that when you die to remain in the grave until resurrection? And after you rise from the dead there will either be a heaven or a hell awaiting. Those who have done evil and refused Christ as their Savior will be sentenced to hell. But it won't be eternal from what I've studied. It will be temporary. Hell itself will one day burn out.

 

[stormdancer0]

I have struggled with this in the past, but not any more. There's no doubt Hell exists - if you believe the scriptures. It was created not to hold those who reject God, but for the fallen angels and Satan. All who follow Satan, whether angel or human, AND whether intentionally or by default, will spend eternity there. I believe in hell being eternal, because of the proofs I've found in the Bible. But I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

 

[Christfan]

Your sin is eternal in the eyes of an eternal God. Since he is a perfect just judge, no crime will go unpunished not even 1 sin. Eternal crimes require an eternal punishment. The wages of sin is death. Since your soul is immortal the closet thing to death is mental and physical torment to the edge of wanting death. Its God's mercy that he doesn't snuff you out because life, no matter how bad, will always be better than non-existance.

As far as your feelings, every second of a persons life is a chance to come to Jesus and have his pure blood be the payment for their sins. That is how God is perfectly loving having Jesus willingly die on the cross as a way out from your crimes (sins). Another merciful thing God does is let wicked people live. God has complete sovereign control over absolutely everything and gives life and takes life.

 

[seekeralex]

I do not beleive that there will be a place where our punishment will be eternal torture. I can not find this in the bible. Lake of fire will burn for "ions" bible says "ions" meaning age, so even lake of fire will cease to exist...

 

[childofGod31]

sure don't want anyone to go to hell, but its not up to me. I guess your choosen your choosen, it is what it is. But i'm sure glad someone saved me from being burned and now all i want to do pretty much is share that faith. I guess those i really really want to save are my friends though, i'll lay it down for them, you feel me?

By the way, I was asking about how you feel about it being there....that it was created for such a purpose...this is the problem....

 

[childofGod31]

Your sin is eternal in the eyes of an eternal God. Since he is a perfect just judge, no crime will go unpunished not even 1 sin. Eternal crimes require an eternal punishment. The wages of sin is death. Since your soul is immortal the closet thing to death is mental and physical torment to the edge of wanting death. Its God's mercy that he doesn't snuff you out because life, no matter how bad, will always be better than non-existance.

As far as your feelings, every second of a persons life is a chance to come to Jesus and have his pure blood be the payment for their sins. That is how God is perfectly loving having Jesus willingly die on the cross as a way out from your crimes (sins). Another merciful thing God does is let wicked people live. God has complete sovereign control over absolutely everything and gives life and takes life.

You are lucky that you don't have the wicked inclinations....tendencies...But what about those poor people that were raised and trained to be wicked and they can't see any other way?
Or those who were abused and became abusers themselves?
Or those who are just plain mentally sick and can't even "see straight"? I bet if you were one of them it would bother you....you wouldn't think it was a good idea since you can't help yourself....

People just assume that everybody has a perfect free will....But then there are such things as addictions, bondages, things that people are too weak to overcome...

I am looking for honest feelings. I know about rationalizing things away. That's what I did too. But the feelings are still there if something doesn't feel quite right, correct?

 

[childofGod31]

I have struggled with this in the past, but not any more. There's no doubt Hell exists - if you believe the scriptures. It was created not to hold those who reject God, but for the fallen angels and Satan. All who follow Satan, whether angel or human, AND whether intentionally or by default, will spend eternity there. I believe in hell being eternal, because of the proofs I've found in the Bible. But I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

What I was trying to get at is whether it bothers you that it exists, that it was created? If it doesn't bother you, then that's ok. I am looking to talk to people for whom that idea is like a burden. With those who when they think "God is love", the hell idea comes to their mind right then and says: hmmm... not allowing them to fully think that God is really love (that much).

 

[Christfan]

You are lucky that you don't have the wicked inclinations....tendencies...But what about those poor people that were raised and trained to be wicked and they can't see any other way?
Or those who were abused and became abusers themselves?
Or those who are just plain mentally sick and can't even "see straight"? I bet if you were one of them it would bother you....you wouldn't think it was a good idea since you can't help yourself....

People just assume that everybody has a perfect free will....But then there are such things as addictions, bondages, things that people are too weak to overcome...

I am looking for honest feelings. I know about rationalizing things away. That's what I did too. But the feelings are still there if something doesn't feel quite right, correct?

I did have wicked tendencies and acted on them in a heartbeat, everyone does when they are not saved. There are countless people who were "raised" in terrible environments and became evil people, but completely changed when God entered their life. Every addiction and bondage is still a choice. And you're right everyone is too weak to overcome them, but when you cry out to God and become saved he realeases you from your addictions and bondages. This is the danger of "feelings". They make people's problems as if it wasn't their fault, but it clearly is. Another way to justify one's sins.

 

[mandii_ck]

-- 1. The Lord will judge everyone -- 2. He will be FAIR

I understand this and I'm sure you do also but when I think about the people I love the most, understanding that the Lord is a fair judge doesn't make the pain go away. Even when I think about the fate of my enemies, it hurts me...

I just recently recommitted myself to Christ on January 2nd but I first found Him in February last year. And when I first found Him, somewhere from the time I found Him to the time I backslid, I was sitting in my room when the reality of Hell hit me like a ton of bricks. I know it's cliche but it's the only way I can think of to describe it cause it hit me HARD and OUT OF NOWHERE. I thought about everyone I love who are lost to the point of probably never being found and the reality of it all hit me so hard it gave me a massive anxiety attack.. No matter what I did, I couldn't calm down. I didn't calm down until I begged the Lord to intervene and make it stop.. And when I did that, the attack stopped instantly.

It still hurts me to think about it but I know that faith can move mountains.. Since I came back to God on the 2nd, I'm growing in faith and learning to trust Him more each day to improve our relationship.. I still have this pain and worry but I do my best to give my worries to God and trust that everything will be made perfect in time.

 

[tuantran]

I had the same question before. I found it's imposible to understand about heaven and hell.

For me now, I don't care if there is heaven or hell anymore. I just read the bible and attending church to find out whatever Jesus wanted to do and obey and I will do it. If you're trying to do good thing b/c you wanted to go to heaven (this is call doing good with condition)

Ask yourself those question.
Do you love your friend b/c he's protecting you? it's seem to me that you love you, not your friend.
Would you be still love your friend if he turn around and agaisnt you?

 

[childofGod31]

So nobody else is posting? I guess I know why. We have those questions in our head. But we are afraid to offend God by actually expressing them, right? I understand these kinds of feelings.

Well, we don't need to accuse or anything, we could just say: I wonder why this is so and so, right?

I know that it's easier not to think about it. But for me, it was sort of an obstacle of believing in God's love. So for me it was very important to face them (although I only did that AFTER I heard from God, not before.)

But I wish I knew who else is having this PROBLEM. If it's a problem, then you would need a solution, right?

 

[critical3]

All in all, God gives us the choice to accept or reject him. God speaks to each and everyone, its up to you if you hear.

Mark 4:23 (King James Version)


23If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.


some of you say well what about those who havent heard the word of God?




Romans 1:20 (King James Version)


20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Psalm 14:1

1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

I do not believe God sends people to eternal torment in Hell. Without going to far into doctrine which you wanted to avoid it is totally inconsistent with God who tells us that the punishment of sin is death.

As for the feelings it brings I think it leads to either of these conclusions, 1. God as a Tyrant, Saddist or whatever leading some to even have a hatred towards God.
or 2. Knowing that God is merciful and loving He would not condemn most people to eternal torture and therefore leads people lower standards, which will ultimately lead them into delusion.

read the word, you are deceived

I do not beleive that there will be a place where our punishment will be eternal torture. I can not find this in the bible. Lake of fire will burn for "ions" bible says "ions" meaning age, so even lake of fire will cease to exist...

Mark 9:44 (King James Version)


44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


Luke 16:22-26 (King James Version)


22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

You are lucky that you don't have the wicked inclinations....tendencies...But what about those poor people that were raised and trained to be wicked and they can't see any other way?
Or those who were abused and became abusers themselves?
Or those who are just plain mentally sick and can't even "see straight"? I bet if you were one of them it would bother you....you wouldn't think it was a good idea since you can't help yourself....

People just assume that everybody has a perfect free will....But then there are such things as addictions, bondages, things that people are too weak to overcome...

I am looking for honest feelings. I know about rationalizing things away. That's what I did too. But the feelings are still there if something doesn't feel quite right, correct?

Psalm 58:3 (King James Version)


3The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.



Romans 3:10-11 (King James Version)


10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


Romans 3:23 (King James Version)


23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I had the same question before. I found it's imposible to understand about heaven and hell.

For me now, I don't care if there is heaven or hell anymore. I just read the bible and attending church to find out whatever Jesus wanted to do and obey and I will do it. If you're trying to do good thing b/c you wanted to go to heaven (this is call doing good with condition)

Ask yourself those question.
Do you love your friend b/c he's protecting you? it's seem to me that you love you, not your friend.
Would you be still love your friend if he turn around and agaisnt you?

no one gets to heaven on good works..

John 14:6 (King James Version)


6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[stormdancer0]

No, I don't have a problem with hell existing.

 

[childofGod31]

Critical3,

You see, I know too much to be comforted by the idea that people have a choice. I know that they don't really. I've studied predestination theory. But besides that, here are some other things to consider:

What about mentally ill?
What about those who never heard of Jesus? (there ARE some like that)
What about those who lived for 4000 years before Jesus even came, they never heard of Him...
What about some who are UNABLE to believe? It's easy to say: well, just believe. But did you talk to those who want to, but can't? I did.
What about the verses which say that the god of this age has blinded the eyes of the unbelievers so that they CAN'T see the truth!
CAN'T means they don't have a choice, they don't see it...

Some non-Christians ask me some of these questions too. What do I tell them?

One time I read a post by a lady who believes in predestination. And the people who either kept falling (spiritually) or couldn't believe, asked her: what about us? Why can't we believe? She basically said: I just smiled (in hopelessness), (meaning "there is nothing I can do, I guess they were not chosen")

 

[stormdancer0]

God knows who will and will not accept Him. That doesn't mean we are pre-destined, it means God knows what our final decision will be.

 

[critical3]

Critical3,

You see, I know too much to be comforted by the idea that people have a choice. I know that they don't really. I've studied predestination theory. But besides that, here are some other things to consider:

What about mentally ill?
What about those who never heard of Jesus? (there ARE some like that)
What about those who lived for 4000 years before Jesus even came, they never heard of Him...
What about some who are UNABLE to believe? It's easy to say: well, just believe. But did you talk to those who want to, but can't? I did.
What about the verses which say that the god of this age has blinded the eyes of the unbelievers so that they CAN'T see the truth!
CAN'T means they don't have a choice, they don't see it...

Some non-Christians ask me some of these questions too. What do I tell them?

One time I read a post by a lady who believes in predestination. And the people who either kept falling (spiritually) or couldn't believe, asked her: what about us? Why can't we believe? She basically said: I just smiled (in hopelessness), (meaning "there is nothing I can do, I guess they were not chosen")

Romans 1:20-23 (King James Version)


20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.


the scripture says they are without excuse.. how did those of the OT know about the true,living God and come to accept Him??



when it says they are blinded to the truth.. the truth is set before them but they reject it.. they reject anything of God and even his very existence



myself i dont think the predestination theory works. God has laid before us choices in life. you can either go one path or you can go another.


you ever hear growing up from your parents, you can either learn the easy way or learn the hard way???


i believe God deals with all people, and invites them to accept Him. many refuse to take on that free gift of salvation though.