I support Israel[open]

[stone]

It's recently come to my attention that jews are offended by christians that wear jewish symbols, like the magen David or a menorrah, or something like that.


I'm curious to know if there is someway that those who support Israel can show support for Israel and jews without offending them.

I'm starting this thread so you guys can give some idea's to us, or maybe we can run a few by you guys.

One idea has been blue and white ribbons that read, "I support Israel"


I started another thread just like this one over in the non-christian forum so jews can speak more freely over there if they wish to.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4812126-i-support-israel.html

 

[Talmidah]

It's recently come to my attention that jews are offended by christians that wear jewish symbols, like the magen David or a menorrah, or something like that.


I'm curious to know if there is someway that those who support Israel can show support for Israel and jews without offending them.

I'm starting this thread so you guys can give some idea's to us, or maybe we can run a few by you guys.

One idea has been blue and white ribbons that read, "I support Israel"


I started another thread just like this one over in the non-christian forum so jews can speak more freely over there if they wish to.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4812126-i-support-israel.html

What great sentiment, stone!
Be aware that you may get some....less than kind....comments on your parallel thread. I've pretty much given up on posting over there because threads are often taken over by people who would prefer not to see support for Israel and in fact would prefer for Israel not to exist in the first place.

But I think a blue & white ribbon, or an Israeli flag pin, or something along those lines would be great!

 

[Ivy]

It's recently come to my attention that jews are offended by christians that wear jewish symbols, like the magen David or a menorrah, or something like that.

I was surprised by that.....makes me wonder what other awful faux pas I am committing without knowing it. heh heh

 

[Kalanit]

I've had this same question... because people will ask "Are you Jewish?" and, well, duh, no- the Christians who support Israel are not Jewish... so you don't want to give the wrong impression.

Yeah, maybe a ribbon, or pin, or necklace that says "Support Israel" would be a great idea.

And I think it's a good idea to point out that not all who support Israel are Jews- in fact, there are people of many ethnic backgrounds that support Israel- even some Lebanese believers- so... there- "world opinion" not everyone agrees with you!

 

[HaNotsri]

The biggest thing is to show Jews that you really care about their well-being and their country's well being. Sadly, many Christian Zionists support Israel to fulfill some acharis hayamim agenda which is not the reason why we should support Israel.

 

[WildHeart75]

I am Messianic Jewish. I celebrate all the Jewish Feasts and Festivals, I do not 'dress up' and 'play pretend to be Jewish', I celebrate the Sabbath and light the Lights every Friday night on my Menorrah while wearing my Prayer Shawl. We read the Torah and do Davidic dancing. I have one question for Ortho Jews or specifically those with issues regarding Christians wearing Jewish 'garb'.​

Why can't Christians wear Jewish symbols and clothing?​

Yahshua/ Jesus was Jewish so why can't they wear those things in 'rememberance and commitment' to Him?​

Why would anyone even need approval from another 'religion' to wear certain types of clothing? Jews should feel honored these people support them, you'd think after 6 million of our people dying horrifically we would take any support we can get, instead I see a bunch of judgemental, greedy people screaming that everyone is anti-semitic...yet the moment anyone who is not Jewish tries to show some support you want to judge them and criticize them. I guess some of you will never be happy with anything, always got to have something to complain about, kind of like the Israelites in the desert, they did nothing but complain about what Yahweh had provided them with and couldn't see what they truly had been given.​

 

[ChavaK]

And I think it's a good idea to point out that not all who support Israel are Jews- in fact, there are people of many ethnic backgrounds that support Israel

I think this is an important point to make and can
be better emphasized by wearing an "I support
Israel" ribbon rather than a magen david...

chava

 

[ChavaK]

Another important way to show support for Israel
is via the media. Attend rallies for Israel, write
letters in support of Israel to newspapers and
magazines. And especially write letters correcting
the falsehoods people put forth regarding Israel.

 

[HaReb]

Shalom aleichem!

There are, readily available on the internet, a whole host of ribbons, badges (dual state), and other items that allow us to show that we support Y'isra'el. You just have to search for them!

There is available a blue ribbon just for the purposes you mention and it's been available for 3 years that I know of! If you support eretz Y'isra'el then I am surprise that this thread exists as I would have thought you might have found all these things long ago?

For blue ribbons try: www.jerusalem-mall.com

 

[BereanTodd]

I am Messianic Jewish. I celebrate all the Jewish Feasts and Festivals, I do not 'dress up' and 'play pretend to be Jewish', I celebrate the Sabbath and light the Lights every Friday night on my Menorrah while wearing my Prayer Shawl. We read the Torah and do Davidic dancing. I have one question for Ortho Jews or specifically those with issues regarding Christians wearing Jewish 'garb'.​

Why can't Christians wear Jewish symbols and clothing?​

Yahshua/ Jesus was Jewish so why can't they wear those things in 'rememberance and commitment' to Him?​

Why would anyone even need approval from another 'religion' to wear certain types of clothing? Jews should feel honored these people support them, you'd think after 6 million of our people dying horrifically we would take any support we can get, instead I see a bunch of judgemental, greedy people screaming that everyone is anti-semitic...yet the moment anyone who is not Jewish tries to show some support you want to judge them and criticize them. I guess some of you will never be happy with anything, always got to have something to complain about, kind of like the Israelites in the desert, they did nothing but complain about what Yahweh had provided them with and couldn't see what they truly had been given.​

I agree completely. I don't see what is offensive about respecting and keeping the traditions of Yeshua, our Lord.

 

[HaNotsri]

Attend rallies for Israel

I once took a seventeen hour bus ride to Washingon DC to attend the largest pro-Israel rally the country had ever seen (I think this was in 2002), I was there for six or seven hours and then took another seventeen hour bus ride home.

 

[Mela'h]

I am Messianic Jewish. I celebrate all the Jewish Feasts and Festivals, I do not 'dress up' and 'play pretend to be Jewish', I celebrate the Sabbath and light the Lights every Friday night on my Menorrah while wearing my Prayer Shawl. We read the Torah and do Davidic dancing. I have one question for Ortho Jews or specifically those with issues regarding Christians wearing Jewish 'garb'.​

Why can't Christians wear Jewish symbols and clothing?​

Yahshua/ Jesus was Jewish so why can't they wear those things in 'rememberance and commitment' to Him?​

Why would anyone even need approval from another 'religion' to wear certain types of clothing? Jews should feel honored these people support them, you'd think after 6 million of our people dying horrifically we would take any support we can get, instead I see a bunch of judgemental, greedy people screaming that everyone is anti-semitic...yet the moment anyone who is not Jewish tries to show some support you want to judge them and criticize them. I guess some of you will never be happy with anything, always got to have something to complain about, kind of like the Israelites in the desert, they did nothing but complain about what Yahweh had provided them with and couldn't see what they truly had been given.​

I too agree with wildheart - what about someone like me? I was not raised Jewish or Messianic yet I recently found out that my grandmother was fully Jewish, my grandmother was born in New York, I have Jewish relatives in Florida that I have never met. I wear the Magen because I want to honor what was lost. I also have a Chai necklace that my husband is making for me.

While I do not wish to offend anyone, I believe what symbols of faith you wear are a matter of a person's heart and should be seen as such and welcomed.

 

[ChazakEmunah]

I too agree with wildheart - what about someone like me? I was not raised Jewish or Messianic yet I recently found out that my grandmother was fully Jewish, my grandmother was born in New York, I have Jewish relatives in Florida that I have never met. I wear the Magen because I want to honor what was lost. I also have a Chai necklace that my husband is making for me.

While I do not wish to offend anyone, I believe what symbols of faith you wear are a matter of a person's heart and should be seen as such and welcomed.

Well Mel'ah, if your grandmother is halachically Jewish, then that makes you Jewish, as well as all your children. Thereby you are justified in wearing the Magen David.

 

[Hadassah]

Shalom everyone, I want to remind you guys of our FAQ/Links sticky here which has many "way cool" ways you can show support of the Israeli Economy, by "Buying Blue and White"... as well as a few charities I found that we've listed as well.


Also, I find no problems with people who are honestly seeking truth and find it, and take on our traditions and follow Y'shua, if they are not doing it to "dress up".

For many who have problems with the worship services of your local congregations, do you try and disciple people or teach so people realize their error?

Or do you shake your head, wipe your feet and just walk away?

People don't learn if they don't hear the truth, and if they are not taught.

I too get frustrated with my own congregation, but I try to assist the change from within whilst discipling or if I am called to teach or research, rather than just walking away and leaving people in error.

There will always be "wannabes" in every culture, every faith and every group. I thought we learned that one in school...?

Despite the wannabes, there are true people researching and coming back to their own faith; as well as others that are searching and learning and thirsting and taking hold. Instead of forbidding; why not disciple them and ask them to hold off until after the discipleship time?

I find (all too often) that a lot of the reasons that the error is going on is because no one steps up to help teach and it's a limited group of folk trying to handle absolutely everything (including upkeep of the building!).

By no means do I agree with everything that goes on in my congregation, and more often than not I find myself very frustrated and I have to step back and take my own shabbat away from everyone and recollect myself...

Hey, wait its that way here too!

But we can't just forsake our assembling together with the people who believe as we do either.

If we do try and help out and we're pushed out is one thing (i've had that happen to me before); but if we aren't helping and we're just kvetching, we aren't doing much good either.

There has to be a middle ground.

And again I find myself asking myself, do I even pray for these people, or myself to see if there is some way to fix it. More often than not, no; because I didn't think about it until things hit the fan..

There are many ways to support Israel, but as an expression of our faith, I don't think we should be forbidden of something that we totally search out and find is for us, if we are keeping Torah as we should.

Know what I mean?

We can't possibly know everyone's background, let alone heart... Let's step up and lead, and let HaShem sort out the error and show us all the path to walk.

 

[Talmidah]

Why can't Christians wear Jewish symbols and clothing?​

I don't recall anyone saying that Christians can't wear Jewish symbols and clothing.​

Why would anyone even need approval from another 'religion' to wear certain types of clothing?

Again, the fact that you and thousands of others are wearing this clothing shows that you don't need approval from anyone to do so.

Jews should feel honored these people support them, you'd think after 6 million of our people dying horrifically we would take any support we can get, instead I see a bunch of judgemental, greedy people screaming that everyone is anti-semitic...yet the moment anyone who is not Jewish tries to show some support you want to judge them and criticize them. I guess some of you will never be happy with anything, always got to have something to complain about, kind of like the Israelites in the desert, they did nothing but complain about what Yahweh had provided them with and couldn't see what they truly had been given.

Nice characterization there, WildHeart. I believe that every Jew here would be in agreement about appreciating all support given to Israel and the Jewish people. We just don't understand why one group would want to appropriate the symbols and traditions of another, in the name of support? I think that HaNotsri stated our case most clearly and he is not even Jewish! You are certainly free to continue to talk about a group of people as greedy and judgmental while continuing to use whatever symbols of that people you can, but it will still seem quite strange to those whose symbols/traditions you have taken just because you like them.
As HaNotsri stated in the example of the kippah. It is not a biblical mitzvah for men to wear a headcovering and most likely Jesus did not wear one himself. So why do Christians/Messianics take that on? And if they want to take it one, why simply copy the Jewish tradition, why not come up with a headcovering specific to Messianics? It doesn't make anyone more righteous or close to God to wear a little round Jewish hat. As for tzitzit, there is no biblical command to wear a talit. So if a group wants to follow the mitzvah of tzitzit, why not develop their own style of 4 cornered garment. Why light two candles on Shabbat? Nowhere is that mentioned in the Bible. Why not come up with some beautiful, meaningful Christian traditions here? In everything, why simply copy the Jews, the greedy judgmental people with their rabbinic traditions that many, including quite a few Messianics I've come to see, seem to despise?

 

[ChavaK]

Well Mel'ah, if your grandmother is halachically Jewish, then that makes you Jewish, as well as all your children. justified in wearing t

If it is a direct maternal link, then you are correct.

 

[ChazakEmunah]

If it is a direct maternal link, then you are correct.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Thanks for clarifying that Chava!

 

[stone]

I don't recall anyone saying that Christians can't wear Jewish symbols and clothing.​

Again, the fact that you and thousands of others are wearing this clothing shows that you don't need approval from anyone to do so.​

Nice characterization there, WildHeart. I believe that every Jew here would be in agreement about appreciating all support given to Israel and the Jewish people. We just don't understand why one group would want to appropriate the symbols and traditions of another, in the name of support? I think that HaNotsri stated our case most clearly and he is not even Jewish! You are certainly free to continue to talk about a group of people as greedy and judgmental while continuing to use whatever symbols of that people you can, but it will still seem quite strange to those whose symbols/traditions you have taken just because you like them.
As HaNotsri stated in the example of the kippah. It is not a biblical mitzvah for men to wear a headcovering and most likely Jesus did not wear one himself. So why do Christians/Messianics take that on? And if they want to take it one, why simply copy the Jewish tradition, why not come up with a headcovering specific to Messianics? It doesn't make anyone more righteous or close to God to wear a little round Jewish hat. As for tzitzit, there is no biblical command to wear a talit. So if a group wants to follow the mitzvah of tzitzit, why not develop their own style of 4 cornered garment. Why light two candles on Shabbat? Nowhere is that mentioned in the Bible. Why not come up with some beautiful, meaningful Christian traditions here? In everything, why simply copy the Jews, the greedy judgmental people with their rabbinic traditions that many, including quite a few Messianics I've come to see, seem to despise?

I see..

Messianics all have one thing in common, torah observance and a desire to learn it more.

Messianics are mostly gentile, but also consist of jews. Mind you jews that understand that Y-shua is the messiah.

Messianics distance themselves from the normal everyday christian organizations because they do not want to be associated with anything that has pagan roots. Examples are obvious, christmas, easter, valentines day, etc...

Messianics understand that Y-shua and his talmidim are all jewish.

Messianics, as it is so obviously displayed here, are rejected by jews, because of the display of judaic garment.

Now, messianics are not playing dress up. Messianics observe hannakah, passover and all of the high holy days. We also have torah services as well.

For this and these things messianics are rejected by christians as well.

It's not an easy path to be a messianic.

Where's the love?

 

[Talmidah]

Messianics, as it is so obviously displayed here, are rejected by jews, because of the display of judaic garment.

Wearing a kippah and talit are not the reasons that Messianic belief is rejected by Jews, stone, and I think you know that. I don't hate anyone because some person who is not Jewish decides to wear a kippah. Mostly I just find it strange. But what does bother me is when, after the Torah service on Shabbat, these same people in kippot go over to Dennys for lunch before returning to the Messianic "synagogue" for Torah Club study and then Havdalah. It bothers me when these people in their kippah and tzitzit go into Jewish bookstores on Sunday afternoon talking about Yeshua haMoshiach and how the messianist element of Chabad have the right idea, just the wrong guy. And it bothers me when the MJ congregational leader tells his congregation to invite people to big Passover seder held at a local hotel, to especially invited older Jews and high school/college age unafilliated Jews and to not bring up the fact that this is a messianic seder (ie be deceptive with your words and that, coupled with your use of kippah and talit, they will naturally assume it is a regular passover seder). These are things that I saw when I was messianic and bothered me then and continue to bother me now.

It's not an easy path to be a messianic.

Its not all that easy of a path to be Jewish, and while too many Jews pull the victim card too often, its not a becoming trait on anyone.

 

[stone]

Wearing a kippah and talit are not the reasons that Messianic belief is rejected by Jews, stone, and I think you know that. I don't hate anyone because some person who is not Jewish decides to wear a kippah. Mostly I just find it strange. But what does bother me is when, after the Torah service on Shabbat, these same people in kippot go over to Dennys for lunch before returning to the Messianic "synagogue" for Torah Club study and then Havdalah. It bothers me when these people in their kippah and tzitzit go into Jewish bookstores on Sunday afternoon talking about Yeshua haMoshiach and how the messianist element of Chabad have the right idea, just the wrong guy. And it bothers me when the MJ congregational leader tells his congregation to invite people to big Passover seder held at a local hotel, to especially invited older Jews and high school/college age unafilliated Jews and to not bring up the fact that this is a messianic seder (ie be deceptive with your words and that, coupled with your use of kippah and talit, they will naturally assume it is a regular passover seder). These are things that I saw when I was messianic and bothered me then and continue to bother me now.

Its not all that easy of a path to be Jewish, and while too many Jews pull the victim card too often, its not a becoming trait on anyone.

I would never approve of deception in any form. I don't have anything to say in response to this. I've never seen anything like that before. My experience is limited in such things. The shul i attend is without a dought messianic, although most all writeing is in hebrew.