I need your help, please...

[Strivax]

So, seems to me the world needs saving. Not in any religious sense, I'm sanguine about the chances of a moderate Christianity, over the longer term. If we have the truth, that truth will eventually come out. If we don't, we are better with the real truth than without it. But I think, in the end, Christianity will be vindicated.

No, my issue is that a billion people, living on less than $1.25 per day and mostly malnourished, are vulnerable to starvation and hunger related preventable diseases. My issue is that the complacent wealthy burn so much fuel they are messing up the climate for the rest of us.

To me, saving the world is moral: it means eradicating absolute poverty while simultaneously living within the ecological constraints of spaceship Earth.

So, I am over 50, and if all goes well, have at least 10 years to make of my life a worthwhile project. But I need your advice.

How then, to distill this ethical objective, sustainable living, into a workable plan of action? In other words, if you wanted to save the world, along the lines above, how would you go about it?

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Strivax]

Well, it's been 24 hours, and no takers.

Doesn't anyone want to save the world?

Thanks, Strivax.

 

[quatona]

Well, it's been 24 hours, and no takers.

Doesn't anyone want to save the world?

Certainly not me. It´s too ambitious a task for a single person, imo.
But good luck, anyway.

 

[Locutus]

Well, it's been 24 hours, and no takers.

Doesn't anyone want to save the world?

Thanks, Strivax.

I do

I'm in a similar position to you, ethically. I find it a very black comedy indeed to hear people whining about how others use their genitals .. while the house is burning down around them. I'm also the same age, so recognise the limits of time available to make significant difference (in my own life).

But I have had a head start. My husband and I reached this epiphany about 20 years ago, and have progressively reduced our footprint during that time. We're now off grid for power and water, and grow most of our own food. We recycle everything, and don't buy any newly manufactured goods of any kind other than technology (as in, phones and computers). We don't use dishwashers, air conditioning, vacuum cleaners, clothes dryers, etc, and make our own bread, ice-cream, yogurt, cookies, etc. It won't change the world - if we're the only ones doing it. But it will if enough of us do it.

The thing is, it doesn't need to be wholesale, any little bit helps. That you're even conscious of the problem, and acknowledge your part in it, is an enormous advantage. Often people are so unwilling to sacrifice even a single 'comfort', that they'll expend considerable energy hunting support for their denial. A denial usually driven by desire to retain a lifestyle subconsciously recognised as unethical in a world of finite resources. So I say, well done you

 

[Strivax]

Certainly not me. It´s too ambitious a task for a single person, imo.
But good luck, anyway.

Uh huh. So let's tackle it together. What is the top priority?

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[Strivax]

I do

I'm in a similar position to you, ethically. I find it a very black comedy indeed to hear people whining about how others use their genitals .. while the house is burning down around them. I'm also the same age, so recognise the limits of time available to make significant difference (in my own life).

But I have had a head start. My husband and I reached this epiphany about 20 years ago, and have progressively reduced our footprint during that time. We're now off grid for power and water, and grow most of our own food. We recycle everything, and don't buy any newly manufactured goods of any kind other than technology (as in, phones and computers). We don't use dishwashers, air conditioning, vacuum cleaners, clothes dryers, etc, and make our own bread, ice-cream, yogurt, cookies, etc. It won't change the world - if we're the only ones doing it. But it will if enough of us do it.

The thing is, it doesn't need to be wholesale, any little bit helps. That you're even conscious of the problem, and acknowledge your part in it, is an enormous advantage. Often people are so unwilling to sacrifice even a single 'comfort', that they'll expend considerable energy hunting support for their denial. A denial usually driven by desire to retain a lifestyle subconsciously recognised as unethical in a world of finite resources. So I say, well done you

And I say, well done you.

But I still think there is role for me, in the public sphere, an important job to be done, a contribution to submit, a difference to make. But I'm blowed if I can figure out what that might be. How to persuade people into the same low impact lifestyle you have? How to persuade them that it is a wholesome way of life, good for body and mind and soul, when all they want is $, and then more $, irrespective of the damage they do to the environment, and whether others might need those $ more than they do?

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[joshua 1 9]

How then, to distill this ethical objective, sustainable living, into a workable plan of action? In other words, if you wanted to save the world, along the lines above, how would you go about it?

I would encourage people how to get off the grid and go green. I can use a solar charger for a cell phone to charge an external battery that can be used with an LED light. The whole thing cost about $10 (solar charger, battery & light). I think the people that will be saved are the ones that are off the grid because they are a safe distance from the population centers.

 

[joshua 1 9]

We don't use dishwashers, air conditioning, vacuum cleaners, clothes dryers, etc, and make our own bread, ice-cream, yogurt, cookies, etc.

I have to cook all my own food from scratch because I am on a low salt diet and most all processed food has way to much salt. Even more and more I am going to organic because I have food sensitivities to the chemicals they put in foods.

 

[quatona]

Uh huh. So let's tackle it together. What is the top priority?

I don´t think the world is in need of saving, in the first place. It will survive.
As to improvements - I´m glad different people have different priorities.
I guess my top priority is resistance to the capitalist narrative of permanent growth, and an emphasis on reduction.

 

[Hikarifuru]

So, seems to me the world needs saving. Not in any religious sense, I'm sanguine about the chances of a moderate Christianity, over the longer term. If we have the truth, that truth will eventually come out. If we don't, we are better with the real truth than without it. But I think, in the end, Christianity will be vindicated.

No, my issue is that a billion people, living on less than $1.25 per day and mostly malnourished, are vulnerable to starvation and hunger related preventable diseases. My issue is that the complacent wealthy burn so much fuel they are messing up the climate for the rest of us.

To me, saving the world is moral: it means eradicating absolute poverty while simultaneously living within the ecological constraints of spaceship Earth.

So, I am over 50, and if all goes well, have at least 10 years to make of my life a worthwhile project. But I need your advice.

How then, to distill this ethical objective, sustainable living, into a workable plan of action? In other words, if you wanted to save the world, along the lines above, how would you go about it?

Best wishes, Strivax.

Have you ever seen an ANIME?

The world is full of people like you and me who want to save the world and no one knows how. History is lined with stories of people who wanted to save the world, or at least their loved ones and they could not.

One of my favorite stories is about a man named Kiritsugu who tries to save the world and in the end he cannot, because you cannot really save someone without hurting someone else most of the time. You pick who will die and who will live and tell grand stories of victory built upon the pain and misery of those you defeated.

It is also a common classic tale that the greatest defenders of justice and righteousness are the ones who fall into darkness and despair, because the fighting never stops, the killing never stops, you never finish and eventually your mind grows dark and begin to blame your rules of righteousness and glory for causing all of this pain, so you turn and try to destroy the goodness you once tried to protect.

Most people who dream of saving the world never volunteer at a shelter, never go volunteer their time, do not vote in elections, do not contribute to charity, it's just a self aggrandizing ideal they hold to make their self feel good about having the right vision.

 

[Strivax]

I don´t think the world is in need of saving, in the first place. It will survive.

Indeed so. But, call me biased, but I rather like the idea of a planet Earth capable of supporting human life.

As to improvements - I´m glad different people have different priorities.

Me too. The democratic mix of vocations, of decent people improving the status quo simply because that is what they want to do, should not be underestimated as a force for good.

I guess my top priority is resistance to the capitalist narrative of permanent growth, and an emphasis on reduction.

So, some people think we can still have GDP growth, while using fewer resources, by concentrating on increasing value rather than bulk quantities. If so, would you still be opposed to 'the capitalist narrative'?

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Strivax]

I would encourage people how to get off the grid and go green. I can use a solar charger for a cell phone to charge an external battery that can be used with an LED light. The whole thing cost about $10 (solar charger, battery & light). I think the people that will be saved are the ones that are off the grid because they are a safe distance from the population centers.

If not necessarily saved, they are, at least, conserving resources.

Best wishes, Strivax

 

[Strivax]

Have you ever seen an ANIME?

The world is full of people like you and me who want to save the world and no one knows how. History is lined with stories of people who wanted to save the world, or at least their loved ones and they could not.

One of my favorite stories is about a man named Kiritsugu who tries to save the world and in the end he cannot, because you cannot really save someone without hurting someone else most of the time. You pick who will die and who will live and tell grand stories of victory built upon the pain and misery of those you defeated.

It is also a common classic tale that the greatest defenders of justice and righteousness are the ones who fall into darkness and despair, because the fighting never stops, the killing never stops, you never finish and eventually your mind grows dark and begin to blame your rules of righteousness and glory for causing all of this pain, so you turn and try to destroy the goodness you once tried to protect.

Most people who dream of saving the world never volunteer at a shelter, never go volunteer their time, do not vote in elections, do not contribute to charity, it's just a self aggrandizing ideal they hold to make their self feel good about having the right vision.

Indeed, I think the fight to 'save the world' will outlast my lifetime, and yours. But that does not mean it is a wasted cause. If you care about your children, and theirs, then, though we may not see total victory before we die, our efforts to lay down sustainable foundations are still worthwhile.

I am not so pessimistic as you. I do not consider life a zero-sum gain, whereby for someone to win, someone else must lose. If we get our communal heads together, I am sure we can work out some solution whereby everyone gets to win the important things in life, even if those important things do not necessarily include a surplus of $.

Cheers, Strivax,

 

[Hikarifuru]

Indeed, I think the fight to 'save the world' will outlast my lifetime, and yours. But that does not mean it is a wasted cause. If you care about your children, and theirs, then, though we may not see total victory before we die, our efforts to lay down sustainable foundations are still worthwhile.

I am not so pessimistic as you. I do not consider life a zero-sum gain, whereby for someone to win, someone else must lose. If we get our communal heads together, I am sure we can work out some solution whereby everyone gets to win the important things in life, even if those important things do not necessarily include a surplus of $.

Cheers, Strivax,

I care as much as anyone else, but you can only save a few and you likely have to hurt someone to do it. You'll have to call a war holy and just and believe you killed your enemies for good cause.

I'll take care of my kids and I'll do what i can to make things better, but we cannot save the world.

 

[Strivax]

Hmmm. Where is it written that to do good for some, you must hurt others? To me, one of the nice things about goodness is that it may be freely distributed, without cost, and still benefit all. Whether your goodness is a mere openhearted smile, or a carefully researched commendation of some charity, it improves the lot of humanity without diminishing your position, at all.

Best wishes, Strivax

 

[Hikarifuru]

Hmmm. Where is it written that to do good for some, you must hurt others? To me, one of the nice things about goodness is that it may be freely distributed, without cost, and still benefit all. Whether your goodness is a mere openhearted smile, or a carefully researched commendation of some charity, it improves the lot of humanity without diminishing your position, at all.

Best wishes, Strivax

Smiles don't save the world, go to Africa and free the slaves of all sorts, you will have to kill to do it and their will always be someone else to kill and rescue, it will never be finished and one day the people you tried to protect will likely betray you and blame some horrible crime on you too and maybe even kill you for it.

 

[Strivax]

Just so. One of the things about goodness is that it refuses to use the tactics it deplores. DeanW, you are in a bad place. If you can't snap out of it of your own accord, seek help. The world is a better place than you seem capable of perceiving.

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[Job8]

How then, to distill this ethical objective, sustainable living, into a workable plan of action? In other words, if you wanted to save the world, along the lines above, how would you go about it?

The term *world* can be applied in two ways -- the globe of the earth or the world of humanity. The term *sustainable* is being used for propaganda that will reduce all countries to a third world status and allow a handful of manipulators at the top to control human affairs.

The earth is destined to be burned up (2 Peter 3:7-12), so no matter what you do, God will burn up the existing earth, and create a New Heavens and a New Earth. That does not necessarily mean that human beings should treat the natural world with disrespect. It simply means that our focus is misplaced when we talk about saving the earth.

The world of humanity needs salvation from eternal Hell. At the same time, there is enough wealth worldwide that not a single person should be without the basic necessities of life. But how are you going to get selfish and greedy people to part with their wealth and help others? It is only through the Gospel that people are converted and their hearts are changed.

 

[quatona]

Indeed so. But, call me biased, but I rather like the idea of a planet Earth capable of supporting human life.

Then, I think, you better reword your objective.

Me too. The democratic mix of vocations, of decent people improving the status quo simply because that is what they want to do, should not be underestimated as a force for good.

Indeed, it´s all we have, after all - then again, you know what they say about intentions...

So, some people think we can still have GDP growth, while using fewer resources, by concentrating on increasing value rather than bulk quantities. If so, would you still be opposed to 'the capitalist narrative'?

Yep.

 

[Hikarifuru]

Just so. One of the things about goodness is that it refuses to use the tactics it deplores. DeanW, you are in a bad place. If you can't snap out of it of your own accord, seek help. The world is a better place than you seem capable of perceiving.

Cheers, Strivax.

No it isn't Strivax, you're just really really lucky to be a human being born where you were born and nurtured the way you were and to be where you are today.

Nearly everything else that has ever lived dies a sorrowful painful death and no one cares for very long. If you weren't a human you wouldn't know probably what happiness is and you'd be helpless to anything about the bad things that come into your life and eat you alive or hurt you and leave you alone on the ground to die. Do you know how many children die on earth every day when their parents beg and plead with a god to help them? Tens of thousands a day and there is no relief from this. You could have been a rabbit, eaten by a bear and no one would care and no one would even known. Did you have pet fish as a kid? They all died didn't they?

There are little children all over this planet being raped as we speak and no one is going to save them. They have no hope. This world was never designed, there was never a purpose for it, we're really lucky to have lived and even luckier to be humans in this day and age where we are privileged but the vast majority of life on earth will never have a happy existence. There will always be another Hitler, another rapist, another murderer and there will be more wars and the way you will win them is to take a bomb and blow that persons body to smitherines and cheer as their blood seeps into the ground, you killed them you did not save them. You cannot save the world.