I need some advice on the feasts and holy days

[gadar perets]

My heart goes out to you so much my friend, your story is near and dear to me. When I was called out and told my small group leader in the Baptist Church that I wanted to keep Torah he called me a legalist. He was extremely angry with me. The very next week he began a study of Galatians. Then he got with the JR and SR pastor of the church and had me removed. Just because I challenged his views with scripture. So my heart is heavy for you it's a lonely path. I will keep you in my prayers, Shabbat Shalom

Sounds like my story as well. I was kicked out of the church for only deciding to keep the Sabbath holy. They said I was fallen from grace, a legalist and they turned me over to Satan for the destruction of my flesh. That was a difficult time for me. I lost all my closest friends, but YHWH replaced them with new ones that believed in keeping His commandments. That was 31 years ago and I haven't looked back since. In fact, some who accused me are now Sabbath keepers themselves! HalleluYah!

 

[Travis93]

My heart goes out to you so much my friend, your story is near and dear to me. When I was called out and told my small group leader in the Baptist Church that I wanted to keep Torah he called me a legalist. He was extremely angry with me. The very next week he began a study of Galatians. Then he got with the JR and SR pastor of the church and had me removed. Just because I challenged his views with scripture. So my heart is heavy for you it's a lonely path. I will keep you in my prayers, Shabbat Shalom

Sounds like my story as well. I was kicked out of the church for only deciding to keep the Sabbath holy. They said I was fallen from grace, a legalist and they turned me over to Satan for the destruction of my flesh. That was a difficult time for me. I lost all my closest friends, but YHWH replaced them with new ones that believed in keeping His commandments. That was 31 years ago and I haven't looked back since. In fact, some who accused me are now Sabbath keepers themselves! HalleluYah!

I think the modern Torah movement is a fulfillment of this prophesy. It's certainly how I reacted when I actually read the Bible for myself.
Jeremiah 16:19 O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

 

[Travis93]

Alright, I've got some more questions as I've tried to defend the Torah to others. First, what about all the death penalties (stoning people for working on sabbath, stoning rebellious drunkard sons, burning witches, etc)? Did Jesus's death satisfy the need for those on everyone's behalf, or is it because we aren't the God appointed judges and don't have the authority, or is it just because we are under the law of the land that these can't be carried out?

Next, if God wanted us to continue keeping all the laws, why did he let the temple get destroyed and leave us without a way to do a variety of commandments related to sacrifices, tithes, offerings and so on? Why did he let the Levitical priesthood get wiped out when they have so many commands related to them? I was trying to show someone the verses that say the law will endure forever but that's what they countered with and I honestly didn't have an answer.

 

[visionary]

Alright, I've got some more questions as I've tried to defend the Torah to others. First, what about all the death penalties (stoning people for working on sabbath, stoning rebellious drunkard sons, burning witches, etc)? Did Jesus's death satisfy the need for those on everyone's behalf, or is it because we aren't the God appointed judges and don't have the authority, or is it just because we are under the law of the land that these can't be carried out?

Next, if God wanted us to continue keeping all the laws, why did he let the temple get destroyed and leave us without a way to do a variety of commandments related to sacrifices, tithes, offerings and so on? Why did he let the Levitical priesthood get wiped out when they have so many commands related to them? I was trying to show someone the verses that say the law will endure forever but that's what they countered with and I honestly didn't have an answer.

We wrestle with these questions too. I am satisfied in my own heart, God is the judge, He has taken back the reigns, and following Yeshua, I will say, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone" Yes, the authorities have been appointed and the laws of the land are to be prayed over and obeyed. For better or for worse, we are citizens of this world that we are in, but we are also not of this world. When the Lord returns to rule, then we will learn all the ins and outs of how He wants His kingdom run. All I can say is that it will be more in line with a kingdom without sin, than this kingdom full of sin.

 

[Elihoenai]

Alright, I've got some more questions as I've tried to defend the Torah to others. First, what about all the death penalties (stoning people for working on sabbath, stoning rebellious drunkard sons, burning witches, etc)? Did Jesus's death satisfy the need for those on everyone's behalf, or is it because we aren't the God appointed judges and don't have the authority, or is it just because we are under the law of the land that these can't be carried out?

Next, if God wanted us to continue keeping all the laws, why did he let the temple get destroyed and leave us without a way to do a variety of commandments related to sacrifices, tithes, offerings and so on? Why did he let the Levitical priesthood get wiped out when they have so many commands related to them? I was trying to show someone the verses that say the law will endure forever but that's what they countered with and I honestly didn't have an answer.

With the Mind of Christ it appears that these are afar off.


Genesis 3:14 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

14 And Jehovah God saith unto the serpent, `Because thou hast done this, cursed [art] thou above all the cattle, and above every beast of the field: on thy belly dost thou go, and dust thou dost eat, all days of thy life;




Genesis 2:6-7 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

6 and a mist goeth up from the earth, and hath watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.

 

[gadar perets]

Alright, I've got some more questions as I've tried to defend the Torah to others. First, what about all the death penalties (stoning people for working on sabbath, stoning rebellious drunkard sons, burning witches, etc)? Did Jesus's death satisfy the need for those on everyone's behalf, or is it because we aren't the God appointed judges and don't have the authority, or is it just because we are under the law of the land that these can't be carried out?

Yes to all your questions.
Yeshua satisfied the death penalty for all mankind (2 Corinthians 5:14-15), but only those who live by faith will be pardoned from the penalty of death for sin (Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38).
The death penalty will be enforced by the living Elohim at His appointed time (Romans 12:19: Hebrews 10:30).
We are to obey the laws of the land we live in (Romans 13:1-5; 1 Peter 2:13-15).

Next, if God wanted us to continue keeping all the laws, why did he let the temple get destroyed and leave us without a way to do a variety of commandments related to sacrifices, tithes, offerings and so on? Why did he let the Levitical priesthood get wiped out when they have so many commands related to them? I was trying to show someone the verses that say the law will endure forever but that's what they countered with and I honestly didn't have an answer.

YHWH devised a better covenant with a better sacrifice, better tabernacle, a better priesthood, a better High Priest, and a better way to administer Torah (inwardly rather than outwardly). Therefore, cast out the bondwoman (the Sinai Covenant) and embrace the free woman (the New Covenant) (Galatians 4:22-31). This does not mean cast out the Torah, but the covenant. The same Torah under the Sinai Covenant will be written on the hearts and minds of those under the New Covenant. The Torah written on our hearts includes the better sacrifice, tabernacle, etc.

The Levitical priesthood did not get wiped out. The priesthood changed as far as what tribe the High Priest must come from (Hebrews 7), but the Levitical priesthood through the Zadokites will be ministering to YHWH throughout the millennium (Ezekiel 44:15-16; 48:11).

 

[1John2:4]

Alright, I've got some more questions as I've tried to defend the Torah to others. First, what about all the death penalties (stoning people for working on sabbath, stoning rebellious drunkard sons, burning witches, etc)? Did Jesus's death satisfy the need for those on everyone's behalf, or is it because we aren't the God appointed judges and don't have the authority, or is it just because we are under the law of the land that these can't be carried out?

Next, if God wanted us to continue keeping all the laws, why did he let the temple get destroyed and leave us without a way to do a variety of commandments related to sacrifices, tithes, offerings and so on? Why did he let the Levitical priesthood get wiped out when they have so many commands related to them? I was trying to show someone the verses that say the law will endure forever but that's what they countered with and I honestly didn't have an answer.

It is very difficult to debate with brothers and sisters that believe Gods law is a burden or a curse and not a loving Father offering instructions for how we should live.
Stoning prople, well could you imagine, it would not just effect the one being stoned but the people doing the stoning. Hucking stones at your friends and family until they die would not be an easy task unless you are a sicko. Gods objective was to purge the evil from the land.
This was not some type of barbarian act ,as you already are aware of, they have a court system with witnesses and judges. I think our anti law brothers and sisters do not acknowledge that because they don't understand the Torah or do not see it with spiritual eyes.

You are absolutely correct, we are not under Gods system, we are under the system of the world Babylon(confusion). Until He sets up His new kingdom we must live as strangers, living in Diaspora.

Daniel was in Diaspora in Babylon, that is when he was given all the prophecy for today. Daniel did not stone people or judge over the heathens however he did not give into idolatry, kept his body clean from defiled food, and he continued to worship God dispite the pressures of his world at the time.

Hope this helps

 

[Norbert L]

They say I just started reading the Bible myself so it's wrong of me to try and say I know better than preachers.

How long have you been reading the bible?

I was trying to show someone the verses that say the law will endure forever but that's what they countered with and I honestly didn't have an answer.

Not having an answer can be highly influenced by the amount of time you have spent studying the scriptures.

Everybody here is an apologist for their own biblical world view. The important issue is how a person deals with their own limitations and subsequent failures in defending that view. I would say this, look in your own mirror first and figure out if you have a log in there or not. You have far greater control over how you behave rather than dictating how others should conduct their lives.

 

[visionary]

How long have you been reading the bible?
Not having an answer can be highly influenced by the amount of time you have spent studying the scriptures.

Everybody here is an apologist for their own biblical world view. The important issue is how a person deals with their own limitations and subsequent failures in defending that view. I would say this, look in your own mirror first and figure out if you have a log in there or not. You have far greater control over how you behave rather than dictating how others should conduct their lives.

Everyone is at different levels along the path, telling those who are far behind how much more they have to travel when they are exhausted at the little they have done so far, is not the right time.

Prayerfully, being where God wants you to be when the Lord strengthens them for the next leg of the narrow path is far more profitable for both you and the receiver of truth. I know, different paradigm from the evangelical mindset, because it is more of the "let go and let God". That doesn't mean that you stop praying for them. It means looking to God for the right moment when He has made the heart tender for the message.

They will come to you at the right time, because they have seen it in your life and they hunger to have to same "peace that passes all understanding" and compassion for those around you, that they see in you. Planting seeds the size of mustard is a patience task. "Be still and know He is God" takes the burden for the salvation off your shoulders and lets you be a witness for Him. Whether it is just watching in the sidelines as God works in their life, or actively involved in that part which God has given you to do.

 

[Norbert L]

Everyone is at different levels along the path, telling those who are far behind how much more they have to travel when they are exhausted at the little they have done so far, is not the right time.

My understanding of Proverbs 15:22, a "multitude of counsellors" as the KJV puts it, isn't about limiting the advice. It's about making all options available, it's about including those different options that are relevant to the discussion.

The way I see it, to have a balanced and leveled approach to a problem, it's necessary to place all relevant things such as looking in the mirror on the scale. Otherwise the results can be skewed.

 

[visionary]

My understanding of Proverbs 15:22, a "multitude of counsellors" as the KJV puts it, isn't about limiting the advice. It's about making all options available, it's about including those different options that are relevant to the discussion.

The way I see it, to have a balanced and leveled approach to a problem, it's necessary to place all relevant things such as looking in the mirror on the scale. Otherwise the results can be skewed.

I agree, but that was not what I was approaching the situation with. I am talking about whether the Lord had the soil prepared for seed. We know not the heart, and while we may continually cast seeds knowing that some may fall on hard ground. It is best to find good soil to plant those seeds in.

Another way of saying this is "don't throw your pearls before swine" I was not for or against the multitude of counsellors or the multitudes of advice. I was for prayerfully administering the good news at the right time, place, and right for the receiver's situation. There is no point preaching to the drowning man, when throwing the life line is what he needs.

 

[Norbert L]

I agree, but ...

As one parent who would like to throw a child into the deep end in order for them to learn to swim vs. the other parent who thinks by taking a precaution will lead them to swim. Who knows? Thankfully there is a Father in heaven who can handle both.

On a side note, it would be an interesting real life application.
A parent: "I'm going to toss our child in the deep end in order for them to learn to swim"
Other parent: "No. We need to restrict their exposure step by step to the water in order for them to learn to swim"

In my view, neither of us are Travis93 parents, so he'll try to make sense of all this in his own manner. Psalms 32:9 Psalms 32:8

 

[visionary]

As one parent who would like to throw a child into the deep end in order for them to learn to swim vs. the other parent who thinks by taking a precaution will lead them to swim. Who knows? Thankfully there is a Father in heaven who can handle both.

On a side note, it would be an interesting real life application.
A parent: "I'm going to toss our child in the deep end in order for them to learn to swim"
Other parent: "No. We need to restrict their exposure step by step to the water in order for them to learn to swim"

In my view, neither of us are Travis93 parents, so he'll try to make sense of all this in his own manner. Psalms 32:9 Psalms 32:8

Sounds about right, there are only God's Ways, and often they are at the moment's notice. Follow Him is the best answer, suggestions to go against the grain of the multitude of teachers is neither here or there. You will have to trust God and do what your heart says is right.

 

[Travis93]

What do the laws concerning entering the congregation of the LORD mean (Deuteronomy 23:1-8)? It says no Moabites, but Ruth joined Israel and is the great grandmother of David. It says no eunuchs but Isaiah 56:4-5 says God will accept the eunuchs who keep sabbath, Jesus accepted eunuchs in Matthew 19:12, and of course the Ethiopian eunuch got saved in Acts 8:26-40.

 

[visionary]

What do the laws concerning entering the congregation of the LORD mean (Deuteronomy 23:1-8)? It says no Moabites, but Ruth joined Israel and is the great grandmother of David. It says no eunuchs but Isaiah 56:4-5 says God will accept the eunuchs who keep sabbath, Jesus accepted eunuchs in Matthew 19:12, and of course the Ethiopian eunuch got saved in Acts 8:26-40.

The answer is in what constitutes the congregation of the Lord. Moabites didn't. Ruth, on the other hand, was all into "your God is my God" thus part of the congregation of the Lord. The Eunuchs "who keep Sabbath" are also a part of those which constitutes the congregation of the Lord. In there lies the secret of how to see the difference.

 

[gadar perets]

What do the laws concerning entering the congregation of the LORD mean (Deuteronomy 23:1-8)? It says no Moabites, but Ruth joined Israel and is the great grandmother of David. It says no eunuchs but Isaiah 56:4-5 says God will accept the eunuchs who keep sabbath, Jesus accepted eunuchs in Matthew 19:12, and of course the Ethiopian eunuch got saved in Acts 8:26-40.

Some scholars believe this refers to only male Ammonites and Moabites based on the Hebrew words used. However, a Moabitess such as Ruth or an Ammonitess could enter the congregation. As for eunuchs, some were born that way, some were made that way by other men, and others made themselves eunuchs (Matthew 19:12). I would think those that purposely made themselves eunuchs, but not for the kingdom's sake, were meant, IMHO.