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I need help with this part of the Catechism (Please)

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Christy4Christ

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I have just started studying the Catechism and I am a little worried because I do not understand this at all. I hope someone can shed some light on what this means ...


841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

It seems pretty clear in meaning but I pray I am missing something.
 

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Christy4Christ said:
I have just started studying the Catechism and I am a little worried because I do not understand this at all. I hope someone can shed some light on what this means ...


841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

It seems pretty clear in meaning but I pray I am missing something.
I miss it too...I've been thinking about that chapter for a while now, and am having a hard time convincing myself that I'm reading what I think I'm reading...
 
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NDIrish

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ShannonMcMorland said:
I think it just means that they beleive in the God of Abraham, just as we do...
I understand this, but the part that gets me is that they think Jesus was simply a prophet. They deny his divinity. With that in mind, how can we possibly be worshipping the same God?
 
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Michelina

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Don't read to much into it. It's just a nod in their direction, respecting their monotheism and their good intentions, despite their misunderstandings of many issues. I think of it as an olive branch and an expreesion of our desire for common ground with them. I doubt that it will do much good for most of them but it may help a few, more enlightened souls.
 
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Aaron-Aggie

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Lets start by looking at the full cited text for that section. And Hopefully wosely or someone smarter then I will show up to interrupt with out confusing :)

330 LG 16; cf. NA 3.
CITED TEXT:



Lumen gentium 16

Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature",(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.

NOTES
125. Cf. Rom. 9, 4-5
126. Cf. Rom. 1 l, 28-29.
127. Cf. Acts 17,25-28.
128. Cf. 1 Tim. 2, 4.
129. Cf Rom. 1, 21, 25.
130. Mk. 16, 16.
Supplementary notes (*)
(18) Cfr. S. Thomas, Summa Theol. III, q. 8, a. 3, ad 1.
(19) Cfr. Epist. S.S.C.S. Officii ad Archiep. Boston.: Denz. 3869-72.
(20) Cfr. Eusebius Caes., Praeparatio Evangelica, 1, 1: PG 2128 AB.

Nostra aetate 3

The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom. NOTES
5. Cf St. Gregory VII, letter XXI to Anzir (Nacir), King of Mauritania (Pl. 148, col. 450f.)
http://www.kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/getreftext.cfm?PartNum=1&SecNum=2&ChapNum=3&FParnum=1065&FnoteNum=330&NoteText=330%20LG%2016%3B%20cf%2E%20NA%203%2E
 
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Christy4Christ said:
God forgive me if I have opened a can of worms that should have remained shut. I am not trying to cause any trouble within my church. I love and belong to the Catholic church I just want to understand this.

It simply means that we are God's church, but we don't own God, He owns us.
Human communication is so flawed that we don't know who the people of God are just because they claim to adhere to a particular church. God knows the hearts, and will judge accordingly; it is not for us to judge salvation (Mat 7:1), rather to proclaim the Gospel. That Gospel is supposed to be good news, not judgemental.:)
 
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Christy4Christ

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I'm pretty sure my own answer to myself was probably the closest thing to the truth. I see that it also says in section 843 this:


843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332
 
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Polycarp1

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Michelina said:
Don't read to much into it. It's just a nod in their direction, respecting their monotheism and their good intentions, despite their misunderstandings of many issues. I think of it as a palm branch and an expreesion of our desire for common ground with them. I doubt that it will do much good for most of them but it may help a few, more enlightened souls.
Amen to that!

If you had a figure somewhere in history who denounced his people's polytheistic idolatry and said, "The only true God is the God of Abraham," you'd see him as on the right path, right? That is, in effect, what Mohammed did. Like (non-Messianic) Jews, he mistakes the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity for tritheism, and falls into grievous error about the Christian message. But he got the first part right, at least.
 
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Christy4Christ

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As far as the Jewish and Messianic people are concerned I have been surprised lately about some VERY different views that are among them. They fight amongst themselves as to what they should or do believe. I was reading a bunch of stuff over in the Messianic section of this message board. I have trouble understanding the whole thing to be honest with you! There are so many things I don't understand and it makes my head spin. I am really glad I have all of you here to talk with about these things.
 
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Michelina

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I am sure that there are many Moslems in heaven. God judges our hearts not our minds. They are very God-centered people, even though they are misled about the Truth. God extends His salvation to all: from the CCC:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
 
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Christy4Christ

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Michelina I see! Ok so it basically means that if one is born Moslem and is believing in the ONE TRUE God and leads a good life but never has the chance to hear the gospel they may also attain salvation through the grace of God?

I get this in a way but in a way it freaks me out mainly because of the new twist Moslems have taken. Some of these people cannot be worshipping the ONE TRUE GOD!
 
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