I make peace, and create evil

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Condoning evil would be like God being a "cheerleader" for it, evil laugh and all....

well sorta' like this guy who gets a real gleeful "charge", so to speak, when there is suffering:

You are confused, because you don't know the Scriptures. Stop listening to what others say or believing what you want to believe. Read the Scriptures for yourself--even expressly the New Testament or read what God said Himself in Job. God is sovereign.

 

[MichaelEric]

You are confused, because you don't know the Scriptures. Stop listening to what others say or believing what you want to believe. Read the Scriptures for yourself--even expressly the New Testament or read what God said Himself in Job. God is sovereign.

What is it, exactly, that you think the word "sovereign" means? It simply refers to a Supreme ruler, or the font of authority. Why would God's sovereignty mean that He condones evil? Perhaps you are also confused about the meaning of the word "condone"?

 

[messianist]

Yer welcome. i'm glad the li'l ornery guy could help.

Hi brinny

What are your thoughts on this scripture: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

Every blessing

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

What is it, exactly, that you think the word "sovereign" means? It simply refers to a Supreme ruler, or the font of authority. Why would God's sovereignty mean that He condones evil? Perhaps you are also confused about the meaning of the word "condone"?

Or maybe you are confusing who gets to decide what is "evil"? Either God is sovereign or He isn't. So, let's just stick with your definition of sovereign. "Font of authority"--meaning all authority comes from Him, right? So, in the Book of Job, did God have to give satan permission or not? In the New Testament, who did satan ask to "sift Peter like wheat"? (Luke 22:31-34) There are so many passages that talk about the sovereignty of God.

Condone: accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue.

Scripture talks about pharoah's heart being hardened--even to the point of the plague that killed all the first born in Egypt. Who hardened his heart? (Exodus 11:10) So, by your definition is it "evil" to kill all the first born children of a country? Who passes through to kill all the first born after warning He would, but wouldn't allow the destroyer to come to the marked houses? (Exodus 12:23, 29)?

Who does God say is responsible for what happens to Job? (Job 2:3) He doesn't blame satan. He owns it. Why? Because satan can't do anything God doesn't allow him to do. But, God is soooo great, that He is able to make everything work out for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.

Who will cast those who are "not found in the Book of Life" into the lake of fire? (Rev 20:15) NOTE: It can't be the devil, he's already in the lake of fire, tormented, night and day, forever and ever. (Rev 20:10)

From Whose mouth will fire come out and devour those who encompass the camp of the saints and the beloved city, after satan deceived them after God released him from prison--knowing what he was going to do--according to Scripture? (Rev 20:7-9)

When the beast and false prophet were leading the attack against The King of Kings and Lord of Lords, who killed the remnant of those that made war against Him? (Rev 19:21)

Who does Scripture say releases the plagues in Revelation? Who has "power over these plagues" according to Scripture (Rev 16:9, et al)

Whose wrath is being released by the plagues? (Rev 15:1)

Who will say: "I never knew you" to many who call Him "Lord" and what happens to them? (Matt 7:21-27, Matt 25:12)

I can do this all day. God reveals who He is in the Scriptures. We hear from people about a God who is fighting satan--as if they are equal and opposites. That just isn't what Scripture says about my God. God is the only True and Living God. God's Word never returns void. God's Word is living and active. Hearing God's Word brings faith. God watches over His Word to perform it. God is sovereign and nothing that happens can happen without His foreknowledge and decision to allow it to happen. He is that big and that amazing! His ways and His thoughts are truly much higher than ours, just like He says in Isa 55.

 

[Lord'sWarrior]

The doctrines of "original sin" and "the fall of Man" are false doctrines and not supported by Scripture.

God loves sinners. God hates sin.

Ron, could you explain in detail please, those false doctrines. I'm unaware ir them. Thanks.

 

[dqhall]

Quoting from KJV Isaiah 45:7 7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?

What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)

Thanks.

I would not spend too long staring at one verse. I would think, it is not for me to understand this one at this time, then move through the text to look for verses that are better defined, ones that offer more encouragement and guidance. While surveying more verses I might gain better contextual understanding. Through the years one may learn more word definitions and dscover more meaning in the Bible during subsequent readings. Memory fades. Review is required.

 

[Denadii]

Quoting from KJV Isaiah 45:7 7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?

What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)

Thanks.

Try this; Turn on a light this evening...Is the entire room lit up? Or did you make shadows when you turned on that light. Evil is the shadows created when God turned on the peace...God makes a move, Satan makes a counter move... Its the effect in that sense of what God does... Look at it that God didn't make the evil to create the evil but the evil was created as an effect of what He did..You asked. Is the illness by the hand of God? The answer is NO. The bible says that Satan is the author of sickness and death....Jesus said "I have come that you might have life, and that more abundantly" Sickness and disease is not live more abundantly at all.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Response to post #25:

Q1: The doctrine of "original sin"

Q2: The doctrine of "the fall of Man"

A1+2:

Original Sin?

The FIRST DISOBEDIENCE of A&E was the first sin for which they were DISCIPLINED. Genesis 3

The doctrine of "original sin" (as described by the RCC) is a FALSE DOCTRINE!

How about CHECKING FACTS?
1. The first disobedience by A&E against God in Eden = They ATE knowing the prohibition!
2. The 'free will" to decide/choose was given to A&E
3. A&E had an innate "sin nature", the "free will" to reject and disobey God
4. DISCIPLINE / training = Genesis 3...NOT "the fall of man"

Both SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS can be spiritually IMPUTED!

IMPUTED SIN:?...Romans 5:12, 15-17 (NIV)...
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

IMPUTED Righteousness!!

2 Corinthians 5:21
He (Father) made Him (Jesus) who knew no sin (sinless) to be sin ON OUR BEHALF,
so that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him.

OP: "Original Sin?"

THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ORIGINAL SIN

What is original sin? | carm

There has been much debate over the nature of the sin of Adam & Eve and how it affected mankind.

Pelagius taught that Adam's sin influenced the human race only as a bad example and that all people are born into the same choice in the world....the same state as before his choice: OBEY or DISOBEY

Augustine taught that men inherit natural corruption from Adam. (sin DNA??)

THIRTEEN REASONS WHY THE DOCTRINE OF "ORIGINAL SIN" IS FALSE !!

The "doctrine of original sin" is false because:
1. It makes sin a misfortune and a calamity rather than a crime.
2. It makes the sinner deserve pity and compassion rather than blame for his sins.
3. It excuses the sinner.
4. It makes God responsible for sin.
5. It dishonors God. It makes him arbitrary, cruel, and unjust.
6. It causes ministers to wink at and excuse sin.
7. It begets complacency and a low standard of religion among Christians.
8. It is a stumbling-block to the unsaved.
9. It makes Jesus a sinner or it must deny his humanity.
10. It contradicts the Bible.
11. It "adds to" and "takes from" the Bible. God warns against this in Deut. 4:2 and Rev. 22:18, 19.
12. It begets false doctrines and false interpretations of the Scriptures.
13. It is ridiculous, absurd, and unreasonable. It contradicts the necessary and irresistible affirmations of every man's consciousness and reason, which is something that no true doctrine of the Word of God could do.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I would not spend too long staring at one verse. I would think, it is not for me to understand this one at this time, then move through the text to look for verses that are better defined, ones that offer more encouragement and guidance. While surveying more verses I might gain better contextual understanding. Through the years one may learn more word definitions and dscover more meaning in the Bible during subsequent readings. Memory fades. Review is required.

So, if you don't like something you read, you just ignore it and look for something that makes you feel good about your perspective? Really? So how many verses do you eliminate from the Bible, because you don't like them?

 

[1213]

...because he creates good, or peace and evil. ...

I think it is important to understand first what evil means. Evil is lack of good, it is like emptiness, it is really nothing. When evil is present, it means there is no good. So, when evil is created, it means good, God’s protection is not there. God creates evil, by allowing people be without God. When people are without God, all kind of evil things become possible.

The reason why I think evil is possible, is that people wanted to know evil, and therefore were expelled to this first death where we can learn what evil truly means.

Good thing is that this lesson doesn’t last forever and that noting of this world can destroy our soul and body can be replaced. Therefore, even if things feel bad, I hope disciples of Jesus (“Christians”) understand to keep the focus on higher matters than temporary material things.

 

[Ron Gurley]

"condone" does not appear in the Bible.

God does not "condone".

As the all everything creative power, He allows....He is in control...He is king of all / all Sovreign...

GOD RULES. He is the intervening Creator whose powerful Divine Sovreignty is perfect.

My TRI-UNE God HAS this CHARACTER/nature and all of these ATTRIBUTES.

1. Existent
2. Unified
3.Simple..pure...good...perfect...holy
...righteous...sinless
4. Infinite
5. Eternal
6. Unchanging and unchangeable CHARACTER
7. All Present
8. All Sovreign
9. All Knowing
10. All powerful
11. Perfectly JUST
12. Perfectly LOVING / merciful
13. Perfectly TRUE / Truthful
14. Perfectly FREE
15. Perfectly separate and pure

Psalm 145:3
Great is the Lord, and highly to be praised,
And His greatness is unsearchable.

Romans 11:33
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

Job 11:7
“ Can you discover the depths of God?
Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He has made everything beautiful in its time.
He has also set eternity in the human heart; (spirit)
yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard?
The LORD is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary,
and his understanding (wisdom?) no one can fathom.

Zechariah 12: 1b (NASB)
Thus declares the Lord who stretches out the heavens,
lays the foundation of the earth, and
forms the spirit of man within him,

1 Corinthians 2: 6-10
...but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery,
the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood;...
For to us God revealed them (things unseen) through the Spirit; (God the Holy Spirit)
for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God...

 

[thesunisout]

Quoting from KJV Isaiah 45:7 7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?

What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)

Thanks.

If you study the Old Testament, you will see that God blessed some nations and tore down others. He used Israel as His instrument to punish many nations, and He also brought disasters upon some of them in other ways. God is a judge and He brings punishment to the nations for sin, and also to individuals. This is right for Him to do, and He is perfectly righteous in doing so. I believe this is what this verse is talking about.

 

[Gottservant]

Quoting from KJV Isaiah 45:7 7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?

What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)

Thanks.

Jim Brown of Grace and Truth Ministries, is completely in favour of this interpretation of the Bible - he uses the verse you used a lot.

The point for Mr Brown is that God does not ask you to like your suffering, but in time interests you in becoming more predestined in your faith.

When you are predestined to serve God, do you suffer? The point being predestined makes is that it is at least not as much (suffering).

Look up Jim Brown, predestination.

 

[RaymondG]

God did not "create evil".

Evil is the absence of God and allowed only to His Glory.

Nonsense.
God is the only creator.....there is nothing made that has not be made for and by Him.
There is no place where God is Not. Even if you make your bed in Hell...God is there!
The only Evil, or absence of God, is the one you perceive in your Head. But best not try to run or hide from God cause you cant.

 

[RaymondG]

Quoting from KJV Isaiah 45:7 7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?

What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)

Thanks.

To me, this means, first, that I can stop blaming things on, and fearing a being call the devil. Next, I can try to understand how all things work together for the good to them that love the Lord.

Evil is much like, beauty......It is determined by the one looking. I row of houses burning down could be evil to the ones whose houses they were.....And it can be a blessing to the contractor who was about to lose his business because of lack of work...until the contract to rebuild these houses came. It could also turn into a blessing for the former tenants when they find themselves in bigger better homes only because they were forced out of the old ones.

My goal would be to realize that there is, in fact, no Evil.....That eating that forbidden fruit, doesnt make me Like God,.......It only gets me kicked out of the garden.....a place where I walked with God, and he was the supplier of my every need....

 

[Ching]

[QUOTE="What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?

What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)[/QUOTE]
Hi, my name is Ching and I'm a Christian. From what I understand, God didn't create evil because we live in a fallen world where there is death, sickness and evil. But God never meant for that to happen. It's a fallen world because of the first sin.

However, since it says so clearly in your bible that God does create evil (in my bible, it says that God creates bad times) it's important to not look at just one verse and make a comclusion about God.

Oftentimes when we have a question on a scripture, the answer is in another scripture some where else.

I've recently gotten into biblical theology which, though it has its limitations and cons, is really good in terms of seeing the bigger picture.

I know this may sound naive as christians do experience pain and suffering as any human being. But I believe that the answer to your question is in communion. This symbol of the wine and the bread being the blood and body of Jesus shows and proves that no, God doesn't allow evil in our lives.

He wants us to be blessed, healthy and happy. He hates evil.

That is who God is to me. But don't take my word for it. Read the bible and draw your own conclusions by discerning.

Thanks and sorry for the long reply. I hoped this helped.

 

[he-man]

Quoting from KJV Isaiah 45:7 7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?
What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)
Thanks.

Is there evil in the city and God has not done it? Amos 3:6; Did not God make the destroying Angel of Him to destroy? 1 Chronicles 21:15; Isaiah 54:16; Exodus 12:24; 1 Corinthians 10:10; Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil Job 2:10; the hand of God touched me: Job 19:21; their works are in the hand of God Ecclesiastes 9:1

 

[messianist]

Nonsense.
God is the only creator.....there is nothing made that has not be made for and by Him.
There is no place where God is Not. Even if you make your bed in Hell...God is there!
The only Evil, or absence of God, is the one you perceive in your Head. But best not try to run or hide from God cause you cant.

Amen

 

[Dowhat]

Hmmm. I wonder how God knows the end of the Bible. How did god no he was going to win? There is probably a bigger picture here.

 

[CallofChrist]

God sent an evil spirit upon Saul and lying spirits to false prophets, he hardened Pharoh's heart.... he sends calamities and woe. God is in control of things people may not always want him to be in control of.