I make peace, and create evil

[Lord'sWarrior]

Quoting from KJV Isaiah 45:7 7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?

What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)

Thanks.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Quoting from KJV Isaiah 45:7 7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?

What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)

Thanks.

I love verses like these. And, there are many more that support this verse.

Why do I love them? Because I love that the God--who has chosen to get to know me and others--declares Himself to be sovereign. People care so much about God being love. And, it certainly makes me feel warm and fuzzy that God loves me and invites us to walk in perfect unity with Him and live with Him forever--just like Jesus and the Father walk in that perfect unity (that is what Jesus prayed for in John 17).

But, if God is love, but not sovereign--and therefore incapable of bringing anything He says to pass--we can believe He is love all we want; but He wouldn't be able to make sure His Word didn't return void. So, He wouldn't be able to make the promised ending come about. He wouldn't even be able to guarantee a "win" in regard to my own eternal state. How could I trust a God like that?The sovereignty of God is imperative if we are to really believe and trust in Him to do what He says He will. If satan can do stuff without God allowing it, then we cannot trust the end God promises; because satan could mess that up, too. We just have to understand that God's ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isa 55).

So, for satan to do anything, he has to get The Father's permission. Jesus never promised that following Him would be easy and without challenges. He had to endure satan's challenges Himself. Jesus even knew that satan asked The Father to sift Peter like wheat! And, that is perfectly consistent with what happened with Job--which God also gave us in Scripture.

 

[Monna]

If you look at this verse in other translations than the KJV you will find a twist on the word translated "evil."

The Complete Jewish Bible, for example, puts it this way:

"I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, Adonai, do all these things."

Other versions use "disaster" "calamity" "cause trouble" "hard times"

Isaiah contrasts light with darkness; so we need to find a suitable opposite to "peace" which is what other translations do. In 1610 "evil" encompassed disaster, calamity, natural catastrophes.

I think Christians immediately equate the use of "light" as a metaphor for moral good, and "darkness" for "moral evil" and therefore use equivalents for the next pair of opposites. Even with light and darkness I find a discrepancy if applied as a metaphor for morality. God doesn't form moral light, He is, by nature moral light.

Personally, I feel that peace and calamity are not meant here in a moral sense. And the Hebrew word seems to allow these other translations of the word (ra). Otherwise it is difficult to square this passage with othe Scriptures in which we find that God tempts none, that God is good and in him there is no evil, and more ... I think you can think of many more yourselves. A natural catastrophe has no moral quality in itself. It is harmful to those who are negatively affected by it, they will see it as "bad" or "evil" but it's not in a moral sense.

 

[brinny]

Quoting from KJV Isaiah 45:7 7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?

What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)

Thanks.

My friend, God never ever "condones" evil.

Give that some thought, if you would be so kind, and then respond.

Thank you kindly.

 

[FireDragon76]

"evil" may be the wrong translation, especially given the entire biblical witness.

 

[Lord'sWarrior]

If you look at this verse in other translations than the KJV you will find a twist on the word translated "evil."

The Complete Jewish Bible, for example, puts it this way:

"I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, Adonai, do all these things."

Other versions use "disaster" "calamity" "cause trouble" "hard times"

Isaiah contrasts light with darkness; so we need to find a suitable opposite to "peace" which is what other translations do. In 1610 "evil" encompassed disaster, calamity, natural catastrophes.

I think Christians immediately equate the use of "light" as a metaphor for moral good, and "darkness" for "moral evil" and therefore use equivalents for the next pair of opposites. Even with light and darkness I find a discrepancy if applied as a metaphor for morality. God doesn't form moral light, He is, by nature moral light.

Personally, I feel that peace and calamity are not meant here in a moral sense. And the Hebrew word seems to allow these other translations of the word (ra). Otherwise it is difficult to square this passage with othe Scriptures in which we find that God tempts none, that God is good and in him there is no evil, and more ... I think you can think of many more yourselves. A natural catastrophe has no moral quality in itself. It is harmful to those who are negatively affected by it, they will see it as "bad" or "evil" but it not in a moral sense.

I don't imply that God condones moral evil, I'm using it in the sense of diseases and mental and emotional turmoil. In that way I beleive God allows it and indeed creates it. For what reason I don't know. As Job was tested, some might be too, but these are just my supositions.

 

[Lord'sWarrior]

"evil" may be the wrong translation, especially given the entire biblical witness.

You may substitute it by "woe" if you like.

 

[Lord'sWarrior]

My friend, God never ever "condones" evil.

Give that some thought, if you would be so kind, and then respond.

Thank you kindly.

Job was tested by many disasters. I mean it in that way. He even had a disease all through his body.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life?

What did Jesus answer when someone asked Him "why is this one sick - because of their sins or their parents sins? " NEITHER - but so YHVH BE GLOFIFIED! i.e. no evil in sickness at the time.

I don't imply that God condones moral evil, I'm using it in the sense of diseases and mental and emotional turmoil. In that way I beleive God allows it and indeed creates it. For what reason I don't know. As Job was tested, some might be too, but these are just my supositions.

The greater moral evil is in society allowing and propogating disease on purpose so often, and death of course also. All society, all the world, IS deceived (remember Revelation 18).

Everyone is tested. YHVH uses all the trials , even "fiery", to purify His people and to prove, to show, that their faith is real and true. Many find out AFTER a fiery trial the cure for their disease and live disease free the rest of their lives, especially if they trust YHVH and do not trust men; seek YHVH, always, and keep seeking the truth. (it is rare on earth)

 

[brinny]

Job was tested by many disasters. I mean it in that way. He even had a disease all through his body.

I agree. God allowed it.

Why did He?

(Is there a difference between "allowing" and "condoning"?)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Bathseba

 

[Lord'sWarrior]

I agree. God allowed it.

Why did He?

(Is there a difference between "allowing" and "condoning"?)

God doesn't not condone or support evil, unless God has a reason, not to be evil, but to allow evil or disaster to be glorified.

 

[brinny]

God doesn't not condone or support evil, unless God has a reason, not to be evil, but to allow evil or disaster to be glorified.

Condoning evil would be like God being a "cheerleader" for it, evil laugh and all....

well sorta' like this guy who gets a real gleeful "charge", so to speak, when there is suffering:

 

[Lord'sWarrior]

Condoning evil would be like God being a "cheerleader" for it, evil laugh and all....

well sorta' like this guy who gets a real gleeful "charge", so to speak, when there is suffering:

ok. This is where my poor knowledge of the english language kicked in. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[brinny]

ok. This is where my poor knowledge of the english language kicked in. Thanks for pointing it out.

Yer welcome. i'm glad the li'l ornery guy could help.

 

[Monna]

I'm using it in the sense of diseases and mental and emotional turmoil. In that way I beleive God allows it and indeed creates it.

Perhaps these diseases are results of the fall? - the living part of creation being out of balance?

 

[Lord'sWarrior]

Perhaps these diseases are results of the fall? - the living part of creation being out of balance?

Dunno. Probably because Satan is the ruler of this world, it is damaged with all sorts of diseases, religiously speaking.

 

[Ron Gurley]

God did not "create evil".

Evil is the absence of God and allowed only to His Glory.

Isaiah 45:6-8 (NASB)
That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sunThat there is no one besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other,
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.
Drip down, O heavens, from above,
And let the clouds pour down righteousness;
Let the earth open up and salvation bear fruit,
And righteousness spring up with it.
I, the LORD, have created it.

 

[Ron Gurley]

The buck does NOT stop with the Sovreign and all everything Creator of only "good". God allows (only to His Glory) the following proximate and intervening CAUSES:

1. a chaotic earth / cosmos after Eden
2. Man's sin nature arising from "free will" toward self
3. attack by spirit beings: devil/demons

 

[Ron Gurley]

The doctrines of "original sin" and "the fall of Man" are false doctrines and not supported by Scripture.

God loves sinners. God hates sin.