I love animals but are we getting our priorities wrong?

Neogaia777 · Jan 25, 2023

FireDragon76 said:
God didn't give people dogs and cats, they were domesticated through a long evolutionary process. Cats in particular were initially tolerated because they kept down rodent population in granaries in the ancient Near East. There were not so much pets as symbiants. Only later did cats start actually becoming emotionally attached to human beings.

Most people now days in the US prefer pets because they are lonely and lack the social skills to have alot of friends, and/or they live physically isolated lives.

Have you ever encountered an animal that was inherently "wild" and tried to domesticate it, or one that was severely mistreated or abused and tried to make it "nice", etc? Because I have on both accounts, and I can tell you it's a whole heck of a lot easier than humans who either are, or have been through the same, etc, and I think it's because they have more natural love on the inside than us, etc...

God Bless!

FireDragon76 · Jan 25, 2023

Neogaia777 said:
I love cats and dogs, and was raised with both, etc, but have two cats out of necessity right now, as it's not very practical for me where I live right now to have to take a dog to go out potty, etc...

But, yes, we did domesticate them, but there was an inherent love there all along, etc...

Much of the animal kingdom is still much more moral than us, when you strip us all down, or take all of our priveledges away from us, etc...

God Bless!

Humans don't actually differ from other animals in terms of morality- primatologists have already shown apes and monkeys have moral sentiments like fairness. The difference seems to be in terms of self-reflective consciousness and meta-representation (thinking about the thoughts of other people, and attempting to influence other peoples thoughts).

An animal, like a dog, for instance, is conscious... it knows. But only a human being knows it knows.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jan 25, 2023

I think God is more displeased that people are willing to have pets before having children these days.

FireDragon76 · Jan 25, 2023

ViaCrucis said:
If world hunger could be solved with 30 billion dollars, then it begs the question why some people have more than 30 billion dollars or why the world's most wealthy and powerful governments don't spend the money to truly address world hunger.

For one, it's certainly far more complicated than that. Assuming the 30 billion dollar figure is true, it's still going to be more complicated than just having the money and spending it.

For another, why does the US government spend 30 times more than that every year on the military, there is a truly exorbitant amount of money that goes into military spending that far exceeds what any other nation spends, an absurd amount of money. We could cut military spending by half and we'd still be spending more than any other country, we'd still have the world's strongest military.

That I'm over here buying food for my dog isn't the problem, morally, as it pertains to the needs of the hungry. That those with the wealth and the power and the means do nearly nothing is the issue--and that's always been the issue throughout history. Wealth and power are in the hands of the very few, while the majority struggle to survive.

Passing the buck to the little people who are struggling to get by is just an example of the tools the powerful use to absolve themselves of responsibility.

-CryptoLutheran

That's really the issue. Even in advanced democracies, very often the monied elites find ways to control the narratives, values, and suppress dissent. What's different now is that instead of blue bloods ruling us, we have green bloods.

The Liberation Theology Gustavo Gutierrez was right to point out how essentially the power structures of the world use everything to render some people not only less important than other people, but as non-persons, or as the theologian and mystic Howard Thurman called them, the disinherited.

FireDragon76 · Jan 25, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
I think God is more displeased that people are willing to have pets before having children these days.

Pet food and vet visits are cheaper than diapers and college tuitions.

Neogaia777 · Jan 25, 2023

FireDragon76 said:
Humans don't actually differ from other animals in terms of morality- primatologists have already shown apes and monkeys have moral sentiments like fairness. The difference seems to be in terms of self-reflective consciousness and meta-representation (thinking about the thoughts of other people, and attempting to influence other peoples thoughts).

An animal, like a dog, for instance, is conscious... it knows. But only a human being knows it knows.

At some point between being monkeys and apes, and becoming humans, etc, and the humans that we are today, etc, humans became a lot less moral than they were previously or any other animal, and that is the way they are now...

And if you don't believe me, then just wait, etc, because you might just find that out soon enough, etc...

Strip all of what we have come up since then, away, and you'll find out even much sooner than that, etc...

We will literally eat each other, etc...

And find not one single thing wrong with that at all, etc...

Because our current morality is based only on the privileges we have, or have gained, since then now, etc...

Or the inventions/conveniences we have come up with/made or gained since then, etc...

Take those away, and you'll see just how "moral" we are, or have become, etc...

God Bless!

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jan 25, 2023

FireDragon76 said:
Pet food and vet visits are cheaper than diapers and college tuitions.

And?

Neogaia777 · Jan 25, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
I think God is more displeased that people are willing to have pets before having children these days.

I'm past that stage in my life now, so...?

And children can benefit greatly from having animals, etc...

I know I have/did when I was a kid...

And so did my kids, when I used to have kids, when we had them, etc...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Jan 25, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
And?

Maybe some people are wise enough to know they can't afford kids...?

God Bless!

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jan 25, 2023

Neogaia777 said:
I'm past that stage in my life now, so...?

And children can benefit greatly from having animals, etc...

I know I have/did when I was a kid...

And so did my kids, when I used to have kids, when we had them, etc...

God Bless!

I was talking about couples who opt to not have kids and just have pets.

Neogaia777 · Jan 25, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
I was talking about couples who opt to not have kids and just have pets.

See post #29.

Life is only getting harder, and it might be wise for people at certain income or education levels to not be having kids right now, etc...?

And just have pets instead.

God Bless!

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jan 25, 2023

Neogaia777 said:
See post #29.

Life is only getting harder, and it might be wise for people at certain income or education levels to not be having kids right now, etc...?

And just have pets instead.

God Bless!

So poor people shouldn't have children?

FireDragon76 · Jan 25, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
And?

Many people wisely now days look at their finances and conclude they can't afford children.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jan 25, 2023

FireDragon76 said:
Many people wisely now days look at their finances and conclude they can't afford children.

That's a bad thing.

Neogaia777 · Jan 25, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
So poor people shouldn't have children?

That seems to be the way the more well off are making it...?

Is it wise to have children when you know you cannot financially take care of them...?

FireDragon76 · Jan 25, 2023

Neogaia777 said:
See post #29.

Life is only getting harder, and it might be wise for people at certain income or education levels to not be having kids right now, etc...?

And just have pets instead.

God Bless!

It's certainly better than having a kid that you can't afford.

Modern life is complicated. The world would not be better if people simply had more children.

Neogaia777 said:
At some point between being monkeys and apes, and becoming humans, etc, and the humans that we are today, etc, humans became a lot less moral than they were previously or any other animal, and that is the way they are now...

And if you don't believe me, then just wait, etc, because you might just find that out soon enough, etc...

Strip all of what we have come up since then, away, and you'll find out even much sooner than that, etc...

We will literally eat each other, etc...

And find not one single thing wrong with that at all, etc...

Because our current morality is based only on the privileges we have, or have gained, since then now, etc...

Or the inventions/conveniences we have come up with/made or gained since then, etc...

Take those away, and you'll see just how "moral" we are, or have become, etc...

God Bless!

I don't think that's due to being less moral so much as the greater cognitive capacities of human beings.

FireDragon76 · Jan 25, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
That's a bad thing.

Why so judgemental? Do you accurately know peoples circumstances? Would you rather people have kids that are ultimately unwanted and unloved?

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jan 25, 2023

Neogaia777 said:
That seems to be the way the more well off are making it...?

Is it wise to have children when you know you cannot financially take care of them...?

Do you consider this a good thing for us to be in as a society? Does God desire that the poor not have the consolation of children and a future in your opinion?

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jan 25, 2023

FireDragon76 said:
Why so judgemental? Do you accurately know peoples circumstances? Would you rather people have kids that are ultimately unwanted and unloved?

Where did I judge anyone? I only made the comment that it was a bad thing that people are not having children and this is based of a traditional Christian view that sees children as a blessing rather than a curse or a drain on resources. Do you consider it good that people not have children?

Neutral Observer · Jan 25, 2023

seeker2122 said:
But I once heard that all it would take is about 30 billion dollars a year and we'd end world hunger but americans
alone spend 30 billion a year on pet food (dog/cat).

Americans spend:

$250 billion on alcohol.
$150 billion on illegal drugs
Cigarette smoking and it's associated costs are estimated at $600 billion.

Compare that to the fact that the health benefits of having a pet may well exceed the overhead cost. So you tell me, which of these things do you really think we should cut back on?

I love animals but are we getting our priorities wrong?

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