I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.

[kidsminister]

I sit here and think what is wrong with some of you! You are standing up for a man that lead many millions away from the truth of the good news! Because he did not have the spiritual insight to see throught the flesh! And just look at the outcome of his pride! For Shame! "LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR!" Please come quickly Jesus!

I can't believe I'm taking the time to respond to this, but...

I don't think that anyone is "standing up" for Ghandi. I think the original post was to get Christians thinking about the way we come across to the unsaved. And by some of the posts here, I can't say that I would disagree if I was not a Christian!!!

 

[Jim B]

Jesus was pretty plain about what he said. He did not [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] foot around when it came to telling us what we are. Sinners, And unless you repent you will perish. Thats pretty straight forward isnt it? Of course he did this in love. I can very easily tell a person like Gandhi in love of coarse thats it's fine to eat his cows, because he has a savior. I'm just not a your o.k. I'm o.k. person I guess. If I do that, then they get the impression from me that they dont have to do anything about their life. Isn't that love?

It may be love, Trish, but it sure isn’t perceived that way. It comes across as self-righteousness, spiritual smugness, and superiority and closes more ears to the gospel than it opens.

Trish, what is wrong with tact? Tact is just another word for wisdom. If you’re trying to persuade people, you don’t begin by alienating them, calling them names, judging them. It seems to me that this is the meaning of the Apostle’s advice to the Corinthians, “Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible” (1 Cor. 9.19, context below).

Furthermore, the Gospels I read show that Jesus’ harsh words were saved for the heartless (and tactless) religious leaders of His day, not for sinners. I challenge you to show me one place in the Gospels where Jesus browbeat nonbelievers. Rather, He reasoned with them, dialogued with them, attended their parties and weddings, fellowshipped with them, laughed with them … so much so that the sanctimonious religious crowd found “evidence” enoguh to say of Him, “'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners." Then He said, "But wisdom is proved right by her actions" (Matthew 11.19). Jesus' wisdom was demonstrated in how He treated those whom He was sent into this world to save.

No one would have ever accused Him of being a “friend of Pharisees.” It was the Pharisees who cudgeled sinners … not Jesus.

\o/

1 Corinthians 9
19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

 

[Hands&Feet]

When Ghandi was in South Africa attending the university there, he was considering Christianity. He went into a church and was escorted out by and usher because only whites were allowed in there. That was his defining moment.

 

[Andyman_1970]

How did Jesus say "they" (the world) will know we are His followers?

Because we are right?

Because we are doctrinally correct and have all the verses to prove it?

Because we win every argument?

Because of our clever bumper stickers?

Because the fish on my bumper is bigger than the fish on your bumper?

Because we are sucessful?

Because we have great music?

Nope.

They will know we are followers of Jesus because of LOVE. (John 13:34-35) By our oneness the would will know that God sent Jesus to be our savior.

How will the world know Jesus is who He claims He is? The Scriptures tell us that they (the world) will look at the church and see our "oneness" our unity and our love for each other and see a reflection of God's oneness, unity and love (John 17:20-21).

Our greatest witness to the world is not how many verses can we quote lost people, our greatest witness is living an AUTHENTIC Christian life WHEREVER we are (love the LORD your God will ALL your heart, ALL your soul, all your strength), not some hypocritical "show" that we put on once a week for all to see.

 

[Trish1947]

It may be love, Trish, but it sure isn’t perceived that way. It comes across as self-righteousness, spiritual smugness, and superiority and closes more ears to the gospel than it opens.

Trish, what is wrong with tact? Tact is just another word for wisdom. If you’re trying to persuade people, you don’t begin by alienating them, calling them names, judging them. It seems to me that this is the meaning of the Apostle’s advice to the Corinthians, “Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible” (1 Cor. 9.19, context below).

Furthermore, the Gospels I read show that Jesus’ harsh words were saved for the heartless (and tactless) religious leaders of His day, not for sinners. I challenge you to show me one place in the Gospels where Jesus browbeat nonbelievers. Rather, He reasoned with them, dialogued with them, attended their parties and weddings, fellowshipped with them, laughed with them … so much so that the sanctimonious religious crowd found “evidence” enoguh to say of Him, “'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners." Then He said, "But wisdom is proved right by her actions" (Matthew 11.19). Jesus' wisdom was demonstrated in how He treated those whom He was sent into this world to save.

No one would have ever accused Him of being a “friend of Pharisees.” It was the Pharisees who cudgeled sinners … not Jesus.

\o/

1 Corinthians 9
19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Your assuming when I tell people the truth about the Gospel, that ask me for it, that I'm tackless, self-rightous, spiritual smug, supiorer, have closed ears, lack wisdom, heartless, a browbeater, etc,etc. My oh, My, you come up with this judgement about me, all over one post.. What does it say about those that are quick to judge??? When I say what Jesus says about something, maybe the truth about me that "in me there is no gile"????? I'm not mean to people as you assume.

 

[Jim B]

Your assuming when I tell people the truth about the Gospel, that ask me for it, that I'm tackless, self-rightous, spiritual smug, supiorer, have closed ears, lack wisdom, heartless, a browbeater, etc,etc. My oh, My, you come up with this judgement about me, all over one post.. What does it say about those that are quick to judge??? When I say what Jesus says about something, maybe the truth about me that "in me there is no gile"????? I'm not mean to people as you assume.

I was just responding to your comments. I am happy to learn that I was wrong and I do owe you an apology for jumping to conclusions. I seem to have a knack for doing that. Sorry.

\o/

 

[Trish1947]

I was just responding to your comments. I am happy to learn that I was wrong and I do owe you an apology for jumping to conclusions. I seem to have a knack for doing that. Sorry.

\o/

Apology accepted Jim. After all you would have to know me personally to come up with a list like that. And you wouldnt find I'm like that at all.

 

[PottersClay]

Your assuming when I tell people the truth about the Gospel, that ask me for it, that I'm tackless, self-rightous, spiritual smug, supiorer, have closed ears, lack wisdom, heartless, a browbeater, etc,etc. My oh, My, you come up with this judgement about me, all over one post.. What does it say about those that are quick to judge??? When I say what Jesus says about something, maybe the truth about me that "in me there is no gile"????? I'm not mean to people as you assume.

Trish,

The world knowing us by our love means more than showing love to those we're sharing the gospel with (though no one would argue that was important). I know of so many unbelievers (especially those in the various wiccan, new age and occult groups) whose biggest criticism of Christianity is that we cant get along with each other.

In their eyes, if we're showing love to people we're witnessing to, but do not demonstrate love as a lifestyle, that love is hypocritical and we're just doing it to get another notch in our belts. To be perfectly honest, I dont blame them.

I'm sure you've touched many people, and they've received what you have to offer in the genuine love it was given in. But if an unbeliever was reading this board, the impression they would get of you is one of caustic sarcasm, not of someone whose lifestyle is to sow love wherever they can.

Please understand, it is not my intention to criticize you. I've got more than my share of rough edges, too. I just think as representitives of Jesus, we must not continue to justify ourselves by pointing out the good things we may have done, in order to avoid the things about us that need to be transformed more into the image of our Lord.

We must listen closely to the world's complaints againts us, and honestly ask the Lord to show us if any of these things are in us and ask Him to change the things in us that need to be changed.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Trish, this post is not meant to "gang up" on you, just post my thoughts on what PottersClay posted.

In their eyes, if we're showing love to people we're witnessing to, but do not demonstrate love as a lifestyle, that love is hypocritical and we're just doing it to get another notch in our belts. To be perfectly honest, I dont blame them.

I don't blame them either. We (Christians and how we act towards each other) are our own worst testimony.

I just think as representitives of Jesus, we must not continue to justify ourselves by pointing out the good things we may have done, in order to avoid the things about us that need to be transformed more into the image of our Lord.

Jesus said we need to deal with the log in our eye instead of concentrate on the speck of sawdust in our brothers eye. So often we compare our "rightousness" to those lost people around us, and unfortunatly get the "holier than thou" attitude. We sit on our pious seat and look down at those homosexuals, drug addicts, etc, with our judgemental attitude.

Instead of comparing ourselves to the lost around us or a brother or sister that has stumbled, we need to compare ourselves to Jesus, and what He taught.

When the lost world around us sees that we struggle and deal with things (instead of putting on the "holy" act once a week), and that we authentically love each other will all our baggage, they will see we are real and they will want to know "What's the deal with this (Christianity)?"

 

[Svt4Him]

Most times Christians start shooting each other, they've lost their first love. I don't mean correcting them, I mean shooting them. And when I do it, it's because I'm doing what I think God should do, and have lost sight of what He's doing.

 

[mle]

This is so sad. I know it is true, much to often Christians do not show the love of Christ. Christians do not stop being human once they are saved. Christians are still in need of our Saviour Jesus. We must go through the process of renewal through Christ every day.
Lord, thank you for chasing me down and not hardening my heart. Lord, I pray that the Christians of today would make a fresh resolve to be more like Jesus. Lord, help us, we ask for the nations. Lord, teach us, that we may not turn others away from you. In Jesus name. Amen

 

[Trish1947]

Andyman_1970Trish, this post is not meant to "gang up" on you, just post my thoughts on what PottersClay posted.

Andyman_1970, I did not take your paticular post as being on the hostile side at all. Nor yours Svt4Him. Yours was gracious also. And I do have a teachable spirit at my age believe it or not. One quote about what I'd say to Gandhi, does not sum up my whole life and what I'm all about. I was just curious how I made this long list of spiritual disaster over one post. LOL

I guess maybe I became sort of tuff like the street people to win some, they we're street wise, and they understood toughness, and thats the type of people I delt with daily. Maybe too much of them rubbed off on me. But they did respect me, and loved Jesus. I would most assuredly welcome a change for the better on how I present myself to the unsaved since I do not deal much with the homeless anymore, but with the young.

Now I work with young people. They seem to trust me. They know that I wont lie to them, but I'm straight forward with them and have learned to become a good listener. The things they say about our society would curl your hair. They have no hope, have lost respect for adults, some of them dont want to live anymore. It's a really sad situation. My heart aches for them.

 

[rooster]

Ok, we can admit that Christians should be more Christian.

But let's not stop there. It is very easy for non-christians to see what they want to see. Let us never forget that technically, according to scripture, all non-christians are of the anti-christ spirit, which hates believers, and cannot see the truth:

1Jo 2:21-23
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jo 4:2-3
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I do not expect the anti-christ spirit to cheer us on. I fully expect the anti-christ spirit to search out every possible negative thing with which to accuse us and lead others away from the gospel. Why should we be surprised by this?

The mentions of antichrists in 1Jhn were in reference to the cerinthusian and docetist gnostics concerning their heresy with regards to the incarnation of Christ. Within the epistle itself you could see the outlines of their gnostic teachings and also the method with which the churches had treated them.
John wrote to confirm the church in their faith and to confirm their faith in the incarnation and work of our Lord.
The references to antichrist here is very specific and these antichrist had denid christ and spread their heretical teaching to the church but through the grace of God had been found out and dealt with.
So, i think it would be stretching it a little to use these verses to make the proclaimation that "ALL non-christians are of the antichrist spirit"
because there are different ways for dealing with the antichrists of our age and with non-believers.