I just don't know anymore

[Confused2134]

Ok, i used to be christian, as that's what my parents raised me to be. And i believed it for a good long time, until just recently. After a lot of thinking about it and unanswered prayers, i just don't believe in god anymore. There just doesn't seem to be any proof. I'm still not sure if this is a problem or a good thing in my life. I mean, i want god to exist, that would make everything a lot easier. But i just can't believe it without proof. Is there something i'm missing? I've been to church since not believing, but it didn't change anything for me. I was hoping someone would have some helpful words for me.

 

[Zebra1552]

Ok, i used to be christian, as that's what my parents raised me to be. And i believed it for a good long time, until just recently. After a lot of thinking about it and unanswered prayers, i just don't believe in god anymore. There just doesn't seem to be any proof. I'm still not sure if this is a problem or a good thing in my life. I mean, i want god to exist, that would make everything a lot easier. But i just can't believe it without proof. Is there something i'm missing? I've been to church since not believing, but it didn't change anything for me. I was hoping someone would have some helpful words for me.

For proof, we have the Bible. There are numerous apologetic works out there that thoroughly debunk most arguments against the Bible, and I have tackled many of those issues. There is plenty of proof for those who are willing and able to listen. Some of the proof lies in Christian testimony, but much of that proof is so grounded in the Bible that it's hard not to ask, "So what about the Hindus/Buddhists/Wiccans who have had THEIR lives changed by religion?" There is no simple answer. My advice to you would be to pick up a copy of The Apologetics Study Bible and go through the articles. It's about $30 USD. Another resource might be CARM.

 

[Alexrkr]

I would say stay rational and things will become clear for you. How to live life, why to live life etc. I would, along with looking at apologetics, see counter apologetics to get both sides of the story. Study critical thinking (just google critical thinking). I know it sounds stupid but trust me we all make illogical argumentation and knowing logical fallicies will help you point them out when someone makes them. This shouldn't take too long or too much effort but you have to be honest with yourself. I'm done now since as an atheist I don't think I'm allowed to respond to you in this forum.

Good Luck in your search,
Alex

 

[Zebra1552]

This is a good point, though, we do need to weigh both sides.

 

[aiki]

Ok, i used to be christian, as that's what my parents raised me to be.

According to the Bible, one cannot be "raised a Christian." Being born again, becoming a Christian, is an individual experience. That is, you cannot be a Christian by association or physical birth.

And i believed it for a good long time, until just recently. After a lot of thinking about it and unanswered prayers, i just don't believe in god anymore.

From the sounds of it, you were never actually a child of God. It is not surprising, then, that your prayers to God went unanswered. You are still in your sins, as the Bible puts it, and in such a condition God will not hear you.

Psalm 66:18 (KJV)
18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

Isaiah 59:2 (KJV)
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

There just doesn't seem to be any proof. I'm still not sure if this is a problem or a good thing in my life. I mean, i want god to exist, that would make everything a lot easier. But i just can't believe it without proof.

God has left much evidence upon which to base a belief in Him. However, if it is proof you want, like an actual face-to-face with God Himself, you're gonna' have to wait for the end of this world. Of course, at that point, it'll be too late to do anything positive with the proof you'll have...

Is there something i'm missing? I've been to church since not believing, but it didn't change anything for me. I was hoping someone would have some helpful words for me.

Why would you go to church? It is a place where the very thing you no longer believe is preached.

God isn't an idea. He isn't a position to defend or hold. God is a Person who wants a relationship with you. Is this what you want? Do you understand what a relationship with Him really means? After all, it is God we're talking about here. When He enters your life, you will never be the same again. He won't come into your life merely as an addition; by His very nature He must have the center place, the ruling place in your life. Is this what you want?

Luke 14:25-33 (NKJV)
25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them,
26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it--
29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,
30 saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'
31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?
32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace.
33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

The cost is high, but this is always the case for the most valuable of things. I can tell you that walking with God has been well worth the cost.

Peace.

 

[Confused2134]

The bible doesn't seem like proof to me. I mean, its just a book, written by man. Plus, the Quran is a holy book too, so i don't see how the Bible can be anymore true than the Quran or other holy books.

I guess i am looking for a face to face kind of thing with god. I don't see why that's impossible, though. It seemed to happen quite a bit back in biblical times. It just doesn't make sense to me that everything else that exists in the universe, we can have physical evidence for it. But not with its presumed creator? I'm willing to belive in god, and if i had enough proof i would devote my life to him. But i'm not going to risk wasting my life for some god if i don't know for sure he exists. That's kind of where i stand right now.

 

[Zebra1552]

The bible doesn't seem like proof to me. I mean, its just a book, written by man.

It's a book, written by man, just as your science, history, math, and English books were books written by man. The only difference is that it is religious. Why is that important? It is a testimony of God's actions accross thousands of years, and that is what it was written to do- testify to God's actions. Why should it be doubted as if it is a book about UFO's?

Plus, the Quran is a holy book too, so i don't see how the Bible can be anymore true than the Quran or other holy books.

The Quran has not only internal contradictions but external contradictions. It accuses the Christian trinity of being polytheistic and of worshiping Mary as God. Not only that, it contradicts what the Bible says about which son of Abraham was blessed and it is written roughly 2000 years after the account. It is less credible than the Bible because of the contents and circumstances surrounding its creation, not to mention that it was changed from its original (we don't even have the original and we know things changed).

I guess i am looking for a face to face kind of thing with god. I don't see why that's impossible, though. It seemed to happen quite a bit back in biblical times.

It happened to people who already believed and followed God, not to those who were like, "I wonder if God exists". Jesus had very clear words for people who just wanted a sign, He stated that those people were asking for the miracle not so they could believe, and in other cases he states that none will be given except the sign of the prophet Jonah- repent and be saved.

It just doesn't make sense to me that everything else that exists in the universe, we can have physical evidence for it.

The Bible is physical evidence for its claims, it is a testimony that has been verified by many people, findings, and methods. The only doubt exists in the minds of overly skeptical critics and scholars who don't want authority in their life (because they like being the authority on things). Like I said before, check out various apologetic works.

But not with its presumed creator? I'm willing to belive in god, and if i had enough proof i would devote my life to him. But i'm not going to risk wasting my life for some god if i don't know for sure he exists. That's kind of where i stand right now.

Why would it be a waste if he did not exist?

 

[aiki]

The bible doesn't seem like proof to me. I mean, its just a book, written by man.

Um, I don't mean to be insulting, but this comment shows how little you know about the Bible. There is no book like it in all of written history. Even scholars who are not Christian testify to the complete uniqueness, the startling, one-of-a-kind nature of the Bible.

Plus, the Quran is a holy book too, so i don't see how the Bible can be anymore true than the Quran or other holy books.

Well, unless you make an in-depth evaluation of the two books you'll never know if the Bible holds the truth, or if the Quran does. I should say this, though, that, while both books may be wrong, they cannot both be right. The Quran and the Bible are in sharp disagreement with each other, which means that they can't both be true. At least one of them has got it wrong.

I guess i am looking for a face to face kind of thing with god. I don't see why that's impossible, though. It seemed to happen quite a bit back in biblical times. It just doesn't make sense to me that everything else that exists in the universe, we can have physical evidence for it. But not with its presumed creator?

There is evidence God has left upon which we may rest our faith in Him. But one of the most important evidences, the Bible, you have already dismissed out-of-hand. How badly do you really want to know God? It seems to me that if you really wanted to know God, the possibility that He has actually revealed Himself in the Bible would be strong motivation to study it. But, this isn't what you've done. Instead, you shrug the Bible off as "just another book" and put it on par with the Quran.

I'm willing to belive in god, and if i had enough proof i would devote my life to him. But i'm not going to risk wasting my life for some god if i don't know for sure he exists. That's kind of where i stand right now.

Fair enough. I would do the same if I didn't already have a personal relationship with God and wasn't strongly interested in starting one.

It has been suggested that God doesn't give us face-to-face moments with Himself because if He did, we would no longer be able to choose to follow Him. His presence before us would demand obedience and allegiance that we would not be able to refuse. God doesn't want this kind of compelled following. He desires that we be drawn into relationship with Him willingly, out of love for Him.

Peace.

 

[aiki]

These people are a little bias.

No more so than you are.

They just want you to be Christian and are making bad arguments to do so.

Of course we want him to be a Christian! We are Christians ourselves! As for making "bad arguments" I think what you mean is we are making statements you disagree with, that you don't like. This isn't a matter of bad arguing; its a matter of your opinion.

The bible is not one-of-a-kind. I equate it to Alice in Wonderland though it isn't as good of a read.

Upon what scholarship do you make this statement? None, I suspect. I challenge you to show me one book that is truly the equal of the Bible in its historical accuracy, literary breadth, unity of message, authorship, development and popularity over time. Alice in Wonderland doesn't come anywhere close (though it does show your bias against Christianity.)

Science, history and math have a little more merit than religion. Look at it this way, look at the central foundational parts of a religion and see whether or not its substantiated outside of the text that claimed it in the first place.

Which is the case for Christianity.

Critical thinking is important in times like these. I'm an atheist but I don't want you to be one cause of what I say.

Are you hoping he won't be an atheist as a result of what you say? I doubt it.

Thats impossible anyway since we don't choose what we believe you can only be convinced one way or the other. I see these people pounce on you like an injured deer and it sickens me.

Again, your bias is showing. No one's "pouncing", though I can see why it would seem that way to an atheist.

Make your own decision and don't come to such a bias source for answers. Good Luck. =)

Riiiight. He should go to an "unbiased" source like atheists. Riiiight.

Oh, by the way, I don't think atheists are to be making posts in this forum. See the rules for clarification.

Peace.

 

[aiki]

Aiki, just stop. I was not attacking you or anyone else.

Hmmm...I wouldn't say your remarks were supporting what we were saying...How would you characterize calling us "biased," and guilty of "bad arguing," and suggesting the Bible was on par with "Alice in Wonderland"? Sounds rather like an attack to me...

By bad arguments I mean ones that contain logical fallacy. The bible is not historically accurate.

Yes, it is. Try reading " The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh MacDowell. His chapters on the historical reliability of the Old and New Testaments covers 83 pages. They are filled with quotations from eminent historians and archaeologists (secular and religious) and supporting evidence all well-attesting the historical accuracy of the Bible.

I hope they make their own decision, not to become atheist but to think on their own.

What does that mean, exactly? No one has ever truly "thought on their own." Our thinking is unavoidably influenced and shaped by external factors and agencies: culture, media, family upbringing, social interaction, schooling, etc.

There is nothing wrong with asking Christians why one ought to be a Christian. Who better to answer such a question? Why, then, are you suggesting that there is a problem?

"Pouncing" was a little harsh, I apologize. I never said atheists were unbias nor did I ever say that this person should only seek information from atheists and atheists alone.

The implication in your words was that the OP wouldn't get an accurate, logical and unbiased treatment of his question from Christians. You were saying this as an atheist. What sort of implications did you think the OP would derive from such remarks from such a source?

My central theme was to make your own decision and not go to bias sources whom ever they be. Why are you making so many accusations? I have no alterier motives if thats what you're thinking.

Except to erode the OP's confidence in a Christian's answer to his questions.

I'm just an advocate for critical thinking since I think if everyone was honest enough and logical enough this world would be a much better place. Behind every problem in this world is a lack of the aformentioned.

Hear, hear!

Peace.

 

[TuffGhost]

You are right to question the existence of a higher power based on the lack of evidence.
Nothing in the universe has shown us any proof of God or any other creator.

I'm glad you've reached this understanding, and I am of the opinion that you should not, in fact waste your life worrying about the imaginary next one.

 

[solarwave]

The bible doesn't seem like proof to me. I mean, its just a book, written by man. Plus, the Quran is a holy book too, so i don't see how the Bible can be anymore true than the Quran or other holy books.

I guess i am looking for a face to face kind of thing with god. I don't see why that's impossible, though. It seemed to happen quite a bit back in biblical times. It just doesn't make sense to me that everything else that exists in the universe, we can have physical evidence for it. But not with its presumed creator? I'm willing to belive in god, and if i had enough proof i would devote my life to him. But i'm not going to risk wasting my life for some god if i don't know for sure he exists. That's kind of where i stand right now.

I don't think you can say the bible is proof itself, since you wont believe it if you dont believe in God already. You may say that seeing God face to face happened alot in the old testament, but think about it, it only mentions a handful of people out of the millions of people on earth at the time, I wouldn't call that often.

Everything else in the universe is physical and spirits are not. I dont think it is possible for you to test for something that is made out of a substance that does not interact with physical instruments.

Scientists have found out that there was a big bang a few billion years ago, but have no idea what caused it. 'God said let there be light' and there was a 'big bang' of light. Anything that has a begining has a cause and since before there universe there was no time or space nothing could cause it. (God doesn't have a begining so no cause).

Also the laws of physics seem so 'fine tuned' so that it is possible for life to exist, it makes it very unlikely that it is pure chance. The probablity of it happening by chance is so unlikely I would risk my life(soul) on it.

Also Im sorry to hear you feel your prayers are unanswered, but God does hear, maybe you just didn't listen to the reply? Around the world people have prayed and had their prays answered and many people have been healed in Jesus' name.

 

[lydeanphoenix]

If an individual is God's, he will hear His voice. Faith will come by HEARING the Word of God. No miracles or manifestations of any proof will ever convince anyone until they HEAR the Word of God.

 

[Lion-Of-Zion]

No offence but you need to kill your ego. All I have read in your posts is how Christianity can serve you. How can God present Himself to you… How can God serve you… Prove Himself to you. That is not what faith nor Christianity is about.
I don’t mean to offend you, but this is my 2 cents… that you indirectly asked for.

Peace and Blessings to you.