I have no place here...

[CJ.23]

as I am not part of the US military. I am an Anglo-Danish pacifist, a staunch defender of the underdog, and an admirer of much in Islamic culture. I was horrified by stories of abuse in Iraq, as were many people.

However, a quick aside. those of you who are serving in the military, and those of you who have served, have all put your life on the line to protect liberals like me and give us the right to believ what we want, and say what we want. Many of my family served in the struggle against Hitler. I understand just a little the bitter sacrifices, the separation from loved ones, and the collosal personal cost of serving your country.

I may have opposed a number of the conflicts you are now engaged in, and I may have sympathy for the nemy. Yet I will never demean or say anythin against the heros who serve every day in the armed forces, or the people who have given their blood for our liberty. My prayers and love is with you, and if I am too wracked by guilt, cowardly and physically out of shape to serve, and if my conscience declares I could not carry a rifle, it doe not stop me praying for and caring about you all.

My family recently had the privilege to help a young mother and sick child of an american serviceman who is serving overseas, if only by driving them to the base, and making sure they had whatthey needed. We can disagree on politics, but we share a common humanity, and the respect I bear for those who take up arms to serve their nation is in no way diminished by my own questioning sometimes of the choices that underlie that at a command level.

I come here to the military forum, because when I post political or social comment elsewhere on these forums, I often feel that I may inadvertantly hurt or belittle heroes who I have profound admiration for, the guys on the frontline. If I ever annoy you by thoughtless words, I hope you will accept a humble apology.

With respect, and love, and may God bless you and your families, to all serving men and women of all the nations armed forces,

cj xxx

 

[God Loving Cowboy]

Pacifist...pfft...but those are some mighty kind words for us War Monger Republicans...I will be sure to let my US Marine friends know that you appreciate there sacrifices.

 

[CJ.23]

Actually, I've met a few marines in my time, mainly at wargaming conventions, and the US Marine Corp has to be one of the worlds most elite fighting units. As to pacifism, I'm a personal pacifist, not someone who advocates overall pacifism. That might be an ideal, but when you live in the world, you have to defend those who otherwise would be exploitd or slaughtered. I have no problem with paying taxes to support the army, or serving in a medical or organisational role, jsut don't have what it takes to be a hero. And Republicans are not warmongers - in my limited experience they are generally pretty disinclined to commit forces unless they really have to, and quite rightly so.

Nah, I oppose war whenever possible - but when the situation warrants armed intervention, I'm just glad those marines are on our side!

cj x

 

[God Loving Cowboy]

US Marine Corps has to be one of the worlds most elite fighting units.

You got that right! (corrected your misspelling).

 

[CJ.23]

You got that right! (corrected your misspelling).[/font]

Sorry about that, slipped a disk in my back so am typing fast and in pain. Yep, Korea, Vietnam, and of course the Pacific during WW2. Mind you, I have a sneaking regard fro the Rangers units as well, and some of the National Guard units are actually surprisingly good, and then there is the 101st Airborne, and the 82nd Airborne. Just because a chap is a commie liberal pinko subversive doen't mean he doesn't recognise excellence when he see it ya know! Actually I also like the USN a lot, and have a lot of respect for the USAF, but feel the RAF may have the edge in pilots.

What actually upsets me mainly is when bad political decisions lead to unnecessary extension of the war. A classic example is in WW2 where the US Divsions in Germany were held back from going for Berlin to allow our tropps (British, live there now) to advance along an extended front at the same pace, which might have extended the war in Europe by another year. Not much point having a terrific army if your leadership does not give you what you need or send you where you should be: and I'm talking political, not generalship here. I ain't gonna talk politics on this thread cos that wiould be a grave mark of disrespect, and completely destroy the point of me posting in the first place!

The thing is too many liberals, and socialists too like me tend to give the impression we don't like the armed forces, or that we worry about enemy losses more than we do those of our own side, and that is why I wanted to just say look, we do care, at least I do.

BTW, just out of curiousity, what do think was the Marine Corps finest action? I always think Iwo Jima, but there are so many options, and the retaking of the Phillipines and some of the stuff in Korea was pretty spectacular.

Anyway, I shall stop whittering! I made my point, which is God bless them!
cj x

 

[BFWard]

A thank you from a Republican Warmonger.

 

[pegatha]

CJ.23, as a former soldier, as the wife of a retired Air Force NCO, and as the daughter and niece of WWII combat vets, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate what you've written here.

 

[God Loving Cowboy]

BTW, just out of curiousity, what do think was the Marine Corps finest action? I always think Iwo Jima, but there are so many options, and the retaking of the Phillipines and some of the stuff in Korea was pretty spectacular.

You can't name just one, but Iwo Jima does come to mind. I will think about that and get back to you.

 

[BFWard]

Khe Sahn

 

[desi]

Probably Korea where the Army had been fought back farther and farther by the North Koreans. When the Marines finally arrived the Army was retreating. When the word of the retreat got back to the Marines who just arrived at the fight the leader said, "Retreat Hell! We just got here!" After that the tide turned.

 

[God Loving Cowboy]

I believe that was World War 1 Desi...I could be wrong..

 

[jhollas]

Actually I also like the USN a lot, and have a lot of respect for the USAF, but feel the RAF may have the edge in pilots.

Aye, it's just a shame we don't have the planes to let them fly!

 

[jhollas]

I believe that was World War 1 Desi...I could be wrong..

Korea in World War I?
Erm...no, I don't think so.

 

[WarSong]

...
Actually I also like the USN a lot, and have a lot of respect for the USAF, but feel the RAF may have the edge in pilots.

...

Hey! AF all the way!!!

But I HAVE met quite a few people from the Royal Navy from the HMS Invincible (I hope I spelled that right). Really good people.

 

[CJ.23]

OK, let's compromise. On low level nap of the earth strike missions, the RAF are unparallelled. On dogfighting and high altitude targetting of ground targets, the USAF do better? Is that correct? The RAF are a great bunch, as are the Royal Navy.

In reply to the earlier poster, I think he means the quote may have been used by the US Marine Corps earlier, in WW1, but was applied quite literally in Korea. On Korea, the defence of the Pusan Perimeter certainly was largely down to the 5th I believe, though the US FEC Army units all carried out a very brave role around Pusan. However, it wa sthe amphibious landings at Inch'on which turned the tide, but if Pusan had fallen, that would have been the end of the war in my (uneducated in such matters) opinion. You see even commie (well socilaist actually, not commie at all) liberal subversives like me take an interest in these things.

Anyway, all the best! God Bless!
cj x

 

[WarSong]

OK, let's compromise. On low level nap of the earth strike missions, the RAF are unparallelled. On dogfighting and high altitude targetting of ground targets, the USAF do better? Is that correct? The RAF are a great bunch, as are the Royal Navy.

...

WELLLLLLLLL...we DO have the outstanding A-10 Thunderbolt, and the F-15E Strike Eagle, and of course the devastating and feared AC-130H/U Spectre/Spooky gunships.....


*this is just friendly bantering, I'm not actually offended*

 

[CJ.23]

Agreed. Mind you we have the Harrier Jump Jet, which with it's VTOL technology I think you will agree was ahead of it's time. I think you chaps bought some off us? (and yes I'm just light heartedly joking - as allies for longer than most people have been alive I don't think the USAF/RAF rivalry is ever more than good natured!)

cj x

 

[WarSong]

Well, I'll admit the Harrier was a good leap...but talking to those fine folks from the HMS Invincible, they had some rather unflattering things to say about it. It was probably the age-old mechanic complaint about his equipment (I've done it several times myself). I did get some good pics of them, and to me it was very interesting as it's the first time I ever saw one up close. Very narrow aircraft, I had a bit of fear-of-heights factor in me when I was trying to walk on the top of it.

And yes, our Marine Corps bought some....though we always wipe the floor with the ones from Cherry Point.

 

[God Loving Cowboy]

Korea in World War I?
Erm...no, I don't think so.

No, the quote Desi used. That was from World War 1.

 

[jhollas]

Yes, although some civilian in Whitehall has made the fantastic decision of removing all of our Sea Harriers, to make room for some American planes (sorry, don't know the name). However, Sea Harriers are going in 2006, and we won't get new planes until 2012. Who on earth decided to have no air cover for 6 years?!?!?!?!
Navy and the Fleet Air Arm are not happy chappies!