I have lost all hope.

[devin553344]

I present to you logical reasoning and biblical support and all you can see is that it's strange? I know I wasn't speaking in parables. This is strange.

Your God is stuck in time. This is what the apostle Paul have to say about it. "You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.". and "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?".

Lastly Jesus of Nazareth will say, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.".

How can you pray to God if you are not even saved? When have God changed his mind about salvation? How can God honor your prayers if you dont even honor his son Jesus of Nazareth?

Kiss his son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. Psalms 12:2

Well I guess it's strange in regard to bible teachings because you've presented a lot of scripture but not one of them says that people are just praying to the devil.

But I would be happy to believe you if you can quote scripture that comes out and says we're all praying to the devil until saved. Or did I miss something?

 

[Messerve]

You don't pray to the devil on accident.

I actually kind of disagree with this. Maybe prayer is a stretch, but people certainly serve Satan without realizing that's what they're doing because of their spiritual blindness. So I wouldn't say it's impossible for some people to also pray for evil things, just praying to a vague being called "god" and unknowingly be praying to Satan instead of Yahweh.

 

[Sketcher]

I actually kind of disagree with this. Maybe prayer is a stretch, but people certainly serve Satan without realizing that's what they're doing because of their spiritual blindness. So I wouldn't say it's impossible for some people to also pray for evil things, just praying to a vague being called "god" and unknowingly be praying to Satan instead of Yahweh.

Serve, yes. Pray, no.

 

[tonyt147]

Well I guess it's strange in regard to bible teachings because you've presented a lot of scripture but not one of them says that people are just praying to the devil.

But I would be happy to believe you if you can quote scripture that comes out and says we're all praying to the devil until saved. Or did I miss something?

Let me give it another shot.

The reason why I say your God is stuck or frozen in time is because you base your salvation theology on the four gospel account before the holy spirit was given. The writers call this spirit Holy is because there is no sin in God and he never cause anyone to sin. It is not a name but an adjective describing the characteristic of a person. The holy spirit that people get from God today is no other than the spirit of Jesus of Nazareth. Because Christ is the head of the church and God is the head of Christ. 1 Corinthians 11:3. So there is no connection with God if you dont stay connected with his son Jesus of Nazareth. The Father is always working to honor his son in this age of grace. Philippians 2:10-11 I'm just throwing this one out there so we can understand each other better.

Jesus of Nazareth did say to his disciples, "the world cannot get the spirit because they cannot see him nor knows him. But you know him because he is with you, and he will be in you.".

When Jesus of Nazareth said "the world" he is referring to those who cannot understand God's grace, those who do not trusts his words to be God's words, and those who lack conviction about what he said to the world so as to not come out and publicly confess who Jesus of Nazareth is. (More confession is expected today because people now have full revelation about what Jesus of Nazareth has done for sinners in the past and what he is doing to save sinners now. Luke 12:35-48)

You can find the pharisees and sadducees and their followers in this group. They think they are saved and that they are living in a way that pleases God when they are not. Hence Jesus of Nazareth said, "if you were blind you wouldn't be guilty of sins. But since you claim you can see your guilt remains.". They mentally recognized that they are right with God but their hearts is not right with him. Because they still clings on to their prejudices about what makes a person right with God. So in effect they are numbing their own consciences and corrupting their minds if they still try to worship God with this mindset. Romans 1:28-32. You can label them as those who practice defiled religion regardless of what kind of "God" they serve or worship or pray to. This is the group of people I am addressing in this post. The apostle Paul wrote concerning idolatry in the name of Jesus of Nazareth...

"Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. I speak to reasonable people; judge for yourselves what I say. Is not the cup of blessing that we bless a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one loaf, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one loaf.

Consider the people of Israel: Are not those who eat the sacrifices fellow partakers in the altar? Am I suggesting, then, that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God. And I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot partake in the table of the Lord and the table of demons too. Are we trying to provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?".

Please try to get the subtext of things. The Bible is just like any other literary works. I don't see the need to be rigid about your interpretations if you follow strict guidelines about what you can and cannot do in your interpretations. Anyhow the above passages is talking about Idolatry at heart and it could mean all forms of involvement in the act of worship (prayers, fellowship, acts of love etc). It's subtle but God knows the hearts of all people. John 2:23-25. That's why the apostle Paul is so strict about spirit led Christians hanging out with those who still claims that they are being led by the spirit of Jesus of Nazareth or claims that they are saved while their actions and words reveals them to be blatant liars. 1 Corinthians 5. Because these idolaters are serving the Devil in the name of Jesus of Nazareth. And they are heading to the lake of fire if they die in that state. 2 Timothy 2:11-13, Hebrews 6:4-8, Hebrews 10:26-31, 1 John 5:16.

Let's analyze 2 Corinthians 4:4 once more: "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.".

In this verse the apostle Paul didn't use the word theos (God) to describe the Devil just for show. The Devil still retains the power that he once held as an angel in heaven. So he can work miracles, signs, wonders, and manipulate the physical things in anyway he choose. Acts 12:23 The one thing that he can't do is kill you. Because Jesus of Nazareth holds that authority. John 17:2, Revelation 1:18. And the Devil wouldn't bother with you if you resist him by understanding and obeying the truth about Jesus of Nazareth. James 4:7, 1 Timothy 2:4. The apostle Paul is not talking about what the Devil is capable of doing to people and to the elements of the earth when he said the Devil is "blinding the minds of unbelievers". They are blinded because they still think they are right with God and that they are serving God or Jesus of Nazareth in all they do whether that is in religious things or in secular living. The apostle Paul wrote about these things extensively in Romans 1 and Romans 2. So in effect they are under the "power" of the Devil because they had not gotten the spirit of Jesus of Nazareth yet. Galatians 4:6 They are not born again spiritually and are living under God's wrath. John 3:18

These religious batman or batwoman are praying to the Devil because they are living in a lie, and the Devil is the father of lies. John 8:44. So in effect they are addressing the Devil when they call out to their "Father" in private or public prayers. It doesn't matter what title they use to pray to the deity of their hearts. It will always goes towards the Devil since God has given over the entire human population to live in sins. Romans 1. They are born in sins and they cannot but live in sins. Romans 7:15-25 So their religious and secular lives are idolatrous in every way. Psalms 53.

Jesus of Nazareth have these two words of encouragement for these religious batman and batwoman:

"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your vision is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your vision is poor, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! No one can serve two masters: Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.".

And

"You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life. I do not accept glory from men, but I know you, that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in My Father’s name, and you have not received Me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe if you accept glory from one another, yet do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?".

In other words you must obey the gospel rule if you want to know God and Jesus of Nazareth truly and duly. And that rule is in two folds:

“I assure you, everyone must be born again. Anyone who is not born again cannot be in God’s kingdom.” and " Believe me when I say that everyone must be born from water and the Spirit. Anyone who is not born from water and the Spirit cannot enter God’s kingdom. The only life people get from their human parents is physical. But the new life that the Spirit gives a person is spiritual.". John 3:3-6.

That's why I chose to worship my own flesh instead of being religious and worship the Devil because I don't have a choice in my current circumstances. So I live by these two rules: "My glory I will give to no other Gods on earth nor will I ever worship any creatures from heaven" and "Be in debt to no one but to love your neighbors". This doctrine sums up the beatitudes that Jesus of Nazareth taught on the mountain. Matthew 5:1-12. Take notice of the fact that Jesus of Nazareth didn't give any qualifications to those teachings. So anyone can follow it no matter what conditions they find themselves in.

In conclusion it is better to be your own God and love your neighbors in your own name than to serve a false God and pray for your neighbors in the Devil's name if you don't have a choice in this life

 

[tonyt147]

Let me put this qualification about my last post up for future reference.

What I mean when I say it is better to be your own God is this: it is better not to serve the Devil's religious campaign and just live as a blatant irreligious sinner than to act righteous by practicing corrupted religion. At least you'll have a clear head and a working conscience. Plus one of the most detestable thing before the sight of the one true God Jesus of Nazareth is lukewarm pretenders. Revelation 3:15-16. You don't wanna come under the cross hair of the one true God do you?

I'm simply suggesting that you do good if you live for yourselves and just ignore the whole eternal life thing. But you do better if you get God's grace and help other get it even if you can't have it in this life.
Provided that you preach the right gospel from the Bible and know that the Devil and his servants is coming after you if you do. Revelation 12:17. I wholeheartedly believe the pain is worth it if we can help our next generation to live in God's grace. Jesus of Nazareth did say the kingdom of God belong to the little ones.

That concluded my third summary of the beautitude.

 

[Corinthi]

Do people know that they are praying to the Devil and his demons if they are not praying in the spirit of Jesus of Nazareth?

John 4:24. "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.". Galatians 4:20. "Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father.". Jude 1:20. "But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,".

Do you guys think they had forgotten that the Devil and his demons are spirits living in the elements of the earth?

Colossians 2:20 "If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations—". Ephesians 6:12. "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.". Luke 11:24. "When an evil spirit leaves a person, it travels through the desert, looking for a place to rest. But when it doesn't find a place, it says, "I will go back to the home I left." ".

Do people know how dangerous it is to make assumptions about what kind of spirits you allow into your hearts?

2 Corinthians 11:4. "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.".

Because those who had received the spirit of Jesus of Nazareth knows from their hearts that it is the Son of God. Romans 8:16. Those who had evils spirits are not sure what they got. Since only the one true God is not a God of confusion. 1 Corinthians 14:33

So I guess I'm just trying to promote awareness and plead with you people to be careful about the God you are praying with and to. Since the Devil is going around handing out miracles like candies to his lying childrens nowadays.

2 thessalonians 2:5-7: "Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.".

How do we know which is which. This worries me, because anything the Devil gives does.

 

[Ben Steers]

Do people know that they are praying to the Devil and his demons if they are not praying in the spirit of Jesus of Nazareth?

John 4:24. "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.". Galatians 4:20. "Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father.". Jude 1:20. "But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,".

Do you guys think they had forgotten that the Devil and his demons are spirits living in the elements of the earth?

Colossians 2:20 "If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations—". Ephesians 6:12. "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.". Luke 11:24. "When an evil spirit leaves a person, it travels through the desert, looking for a place to rest. But when it doesn't find a place, it says, "I will go back to the home I left." ".

Do people know how dangerous it is to make assumptions about what kind of spirits you allow into your hearts?

2 Corinthians 11:4. "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.".

Because those who had received the spirit of Jesus of Nazareth knows from their hearts that it is the Son of God. Romans 8:16. Those who had evils spirits are not sure what they got. Since only the one true God is not a God of confusion. 1 Corinthians 14:33

So I guess I'm just trying to promote awareness and plead with you people to be careful about the God you are praying with and to. Since the Devil is going around handing out miracles like candies to his lying childrens nowadays.

2 thessalonians 2:5-7: "Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.".

That is true, many pray to the devil under the illusion that theu are praying to their god or ancestry when really behind every idol is a demon. Thanks for bringing this up.