I have an idea VictorC...

[RND]

Let me try to set your mind at ease one more time by answering your question once again.

Here is the verse you are referring to.

Hebrews 8:8-10 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming,'' says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them,'' says the Lord. "For this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days,'' says the Lord, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Now pay attention because I'm not going to say this again.

Under the old covenant, the Law on stone influenced the actions of man. In this God had to take them by the hand and lead them. Now listen closely, under the new covenant God will lead us by the heart in that He takes that Law on stone and writes it in our hearts and minds.

"For this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days,'' says the Lord, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

The whole essence of God's Law is love for God and love for man. When you break God's Law you are actually violating love. Every sin and crime committed in the world has its root in God's Law.

Remember, God is eternal and God is love so His eternal Law reflects His eternal character of which we were created in.

The problem with the Law on stone is that people can obey it yet still not love. This is called, ritualism.

The new covenant changes all that or at least it should if people are taught correctly.

Love fulfills the Law because if we love God we will keep the first four and if we love others will will keep the last six.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery,'' "You shall not murder,'' "You shall not steal,'' "You shall not bear false witness,'' "You shall not covet,'' and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'' Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

But not only this, we will go way beyond just keeping the Ten Commandment even to the point of laying down our lives for the brethren.

1 John 3:16-18 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

Classic!

I wonder if Victor doesn't mind having his stuff stolen or his wife and kids ravaged by criminals. If he does then he obviously is a hypocrite! A "what's good for the goose ain't necessarily good for the gander" type of Christian.

 

[VictorC]

Now pay attention because I'm not going to say this again.

That's good, because you wrote the same thing in variance to both Scripture and your previous admission that God's "My law" isn't according to Sinai - you keep referring to Sinai, and Sinai is according to Sinai.

You aren't making the smallest effort to determine the highest Authority God has available to write into us: His Spirit. I had helped you out before, and this was a post you disregarded.

Jeremiah 31:33 tells us that God was to write His law into our hearts and minds (Israel and Judah are mentioned), but you omitted some verses that disqualify the covenant that came from Sinai as that law.

Jeremiah 31
31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--
32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.
33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Verse 32 specifies that God's "My law" was:

• New
• Not according to Sinai

Your response was that the same law was moved from one location to another, and that change of location made it "new". It did not. Hebrews 8:13 capitalizes on the distinction of "new" after it quotes this very passage from Jeremiah: "In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away".

Most who read Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 recognize that a reference to "My law" indicates ownership of the law on God's part, and readily assume that it refers to the law that He created. Not everyone considers the possibility that "My law" can also be viewed as a possessive pronoun, and refers to a law that God is Himself subject to. Before anyone can begin to determine what God's "My law" refers to, it first needs to be recognized that it is not referring to the covenant that He gave to Israel when He led them out of Egyptian bondage, which was the ten commandments that was issued at Sinai (Deuteronomy 4:12-13 recites the experience). There are plenty of clues and allusions that lead us to determine the nature of God's "My law".

Hebrews 6:13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself...

The only law God is subject to is Himself, and His own Spirit. God is not subject to a law He created, as Jesus taught in a lesson concerning the sovereignty of the King over His created law to Peter Matthew 17:24-26:

24 ¶ When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, "Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?"
25 He said, "Yes." And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?"
26 Peter said to Him, "From strangers." Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free".

Galatians 4:1 recognizes this same sovereignty when it refers to "the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all", and verses 4-7 explain God's redemption that made us His children by adoption, and no longer subject to the law created for those who are called the servants in contrast to sons.

You had best quit looking to Sinai as God's "My law" that is written into anyone. The statement found in Jeremiah 31:32 disqualified it when He said "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt". Your claim that Sinai was the essence of the new covenant is also disqualified when Romans 2:15 when it states of the Gentiles "who show the work of the law written in their hearts" prior to the new covenant, and they weren't Israel or Judah anyway.

 

[k4c]

Classic!

I wonder if Victor doesn't mind having his stuff stolen or his wife and kids ravaged by criminals. If he does then he obviously is a hypocrite! A "what's good for the goose ain't necessarily good for the gander" type of Christian.

I think you may be right.

Hey Victor, is this true what I hear that you don't think it's wrong to lie, steal or kill? You must have some wild parties are your house...

 

[VictorC]

I think you may be right.

Hey Victor, is this true what I hear that you don't think it's wrong to lie, steal or kill? You must have some wild parties are your house...

Still no answer from you, I see.

 

[VictorC]

Tough questions, I know. Can't handle being backed into a corner Victor?

Tell me Victor did God have a law that required Adam to have faith (obedience) in Him and that lack of obedience was demonstrative of Adam lack of love for God?

You know Victor the best way to expose false theology is to ask questions. I answered you question with a question to get you to see that God has always magnified the law. Always. It has always been God's intention for man to love Him as He loves man. He doesn't do this by force but by demonstration.

You aren't going to make even a tiny effort to determine the nature of God's "My law", are you?

 

[k4c]

Still no answer from you, I see.

Still rejecting the answers I give, I see.

I have to go steal my neighbor's car so I'll be back later...

 

[k4c]

That's good, because you wrote the same thing in variance to both Scripture and your previous admission that God's "My law" isn't according to Sinai - you keep referring to Sinai, and Sinai is according to Sinai.

You aren't making the smallest effort to determine the highest Authority God has available to write into us: His Spirit. I had helped you out before, and this was a post you disregarded.

not according to the covenant

The terms of a covenant can change while the content remains the same.

I can sell you are car under a covenant or agreement that says you pay me $100 a month for the car. The car is part of the covenant. Now I can change the covenant and say you now have to pay me $50 a month even while the car has not changed and remains part of both covenants.

You cannot deny this is what the entire new covenant is saying otherwise you will have to throw out most of the new testament including how God plans to save us and have a people to call His own.

 

[RND]

You aren't going to make even a tiny effort to determine the nature of God's "My law", are you?

Victor, I already have! You are so blinded you can't see it!

God's "My law" involves loving Him with all of one's mine, heart, soul and strength and loving one's neighbor as them self. This was established in heaven before rebelion broke out and continued here on earth until the cross when Satan was defeated!

God's "My law" has never changed! One way we love God with all our mind, heart, soul and strength is to obey Him. Adam didn't obey. Adam was kicked out of the garden. Adam was not allowed to stay in the "promise land" because of his lack of faith. You are so blinded Victor by your theological stance that I doubt you can see this. I pray one day you do.

 

[RND]

Victor if someone broke into your house a took your TV without leaving a note would you consider that stealing or borrowing?

What if your daughter was violated against her will? Would you consider that consensual sex or rape?

What if your employer promised a huge raise and promotion based on you doing something for them and you did but the never gave you the raise or promotion? Would you consider that lying or a change in plans?

Could it be that your answers will prove the existence of God's law and that it still stands?

 

[k4c]

Victor, I already have! You are so blinded you can't see it!

God's "My law" involves loving Him with all of one's mine, heart, soul and strength and loving one's neighbor as them self. This was established in heaven before rebelion broke out and continued here on earth until the cross when Satan was defeated!

God's "My law" has never changed! One way we love God with all our mind, heart, soul and strength is to obey Him. Adam didn't obey. Adam was kicked out of the garden. Adam was not allowed to stay in the "promise land" because of his lack of faith. You are so blinded Victor by your theological stance that I doubt you can see this. I pray one day you do.

Good answer...to bad it will fall on deaf ears.

One of the problems I see people having is they have so much riding on what the believe that they can't receive the truth.

For example, many church leaders can't or won't receive the Sabbath truth because they will lose their position as pastor, which means they lose their pay, their house and sometimes even their car. That's alot to give up for truth.

I have found that unless people have a love for the truth they won't make the changes that are needed to line their lives up with the truth. Keeping the true Sabbath can mean a huge life style change for many people, which many people are not willing to accept.

 

[RND]

Go and read Romans 3:7-8 for yourself, instead of writing something that exposes your illiteracy further.

From the NLT

"But," some might still argue, "how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?" If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!

Did you catch that Victor? Paul is talking about how ridiculous it is to say "the more we sin the better it is."

What? Should we "sin" (transgression of the law) more so that grace abounds?

Is Paul really doing away with the 10C Victor? Really?

 

[RND]

Good answer...to bad it will fall on deaf ears.

One of the problems I see people having is they have so much riding on what the believe that they can't receive the truth.

I think that explains the rather rude and caustic diatribe's that Victor like to share,

For example, many church leaders can't or won't receive the Sabbath truth because they will lose their position as pastor, which means they lose their pay, their house and sometimes even their car. That's alot to give up for truth.

Yep.

I have found that unless people have a love for the truth they won't make the changes that are needed to line their lives up with the truth. Keeping the true Sabbath can mean a huge life style change for many people, which many people are not willing to accept.

That is so true. Even SDA's can get the meaning of the sabbath all screwed up but just because they do doesn't negate the sabbath commandment. I had a pastor once that told me when he was growing up wading in water past the knee was considered swimming. Wow, just like the Pharisees! Missing the point.

Swimming is part of enjoying God's creation and is no different than taking a hike or a bike ride or a drive into the country for a picnic. When we heap man made thoughts on what can/can't be done on the sabbath we immediately begin to lose the point of it. Yet the other extreme is saying as Victor and so many others do that the law is no more; looking for excuses as to why to ignore God's law instead of looking at Hs word as good advice.

Love you viewpoint K4C.

 

[VictorC]

From the NLT

"But," some might still argue, "how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?" If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!

Did you catch that Victor? Paul is talking about how ridiculous it is to say "the more we sin the better it is."

Yes, and a more literal translation will also convey that meaning. Notice that those who say such things are the one deserving condemnation, and it has been your posts that have advocated theft, rape, and bearing false witness. This is how you have replied to me, in the same tenor as those Paul was accused of promoting our liberty as a license to harm others. He states very plainly that those who do the very actions you have deserve condemnation. I shared this with you in hopes you see the fallacy of your argument that is commonly used against Christianity.

What? Should we "sin" (transgression of the law) more so that grace abounds?

Why do you find it necessary to add to Holy Writ to render a meaning the author didn't write?

Is Paul really doing away with the 10C Victor? Really?

Absolutely!
He is the one who stated we have been delivered from the ten commandments in Romans 7:6-7, which I believe has been presented on this thread.

 

[VictorC]

Still rejecting the answers I give, I see.

I'm still waiting for your replies to the various posts I mentioned to you.

 

[VictorC]

Victor, I already have! You are so blinded you can't see it!

Hey, do you remember writing this?

I think that explains the rather rude and caustic diatribe's that Victor like to share

It seems ad hominem is exclusively your domain.
Now, if you have determined what God's "My law" that isn't from Sinai refers to, why not share it with us?

God's "My law" involves loving Him with all of one's mine, heart, soul and strength and loving one's neighbor as them self. This was established in heaven before rebelion broke out and continued here on earth until the cross when Satan was defeated!

God's "My law" has never changed! One way we love God with all our mind, heart, soul and strength is to obey Him. Adam didn't obey. Adam was kicked out of the garden. Adam was not allowed to stay in the "promise land" because of his lack of faith. You are so blinded Victor by your theological stance that I doubt you can see this. I pray one day you do.

This is entirely speculation with nothing Scriptural to support it.
When you make an effort to figure out what My law God has given us, please let us know. So far you have come up horribly short of an answer.

 

[VictorC]

For example, many church leaders can't or won't receive the Sabbath truth because they will lose their position as pastor.

Those who have rejected the sabbath truth can still apply for a job at the SDA church in their area.

 

[RND]

Yes, and a more literal translation will also convey that meaning. Notice that those who say such things are the one deserving condemnation, and it has been your posts that have advocated theft, rape, and bearing false witness.

Uh, really? Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of the English language knows I haven't advocated breaking any of the 10C's with you.

This is how you have replied to me, in the same tenor as those Paul was accused of promoting our liberty as a license to harm others. He states very plainly that those who do the very actions you have deserve condemnation. I shared this with you in hopes you see the fallacy of your argument that is commonly used against Christianity.

No I simply asked questions. You Victor have been the one advocating Antinomianism.

Why do you find it necessary to add to Holy Writ to render a meaning the author didn't write?

Nothing added. Paul said that. Amember Buckwheat? Why do you find it necessary to twist what others say clearly when your point has been found heretical?

Absolutely!
He is the one who stated we have been delivered from the ten commandments in Romans 7:6-7, which I believe has been presented on this thread.

So again, I ask if someone raped your daughter or stole your car you wouldn't consider those crimes. I find it interesting that the posts where I asked these direct questions were completely ignored by you!

Your theology is showing Victor! Antinomianism.

 

[RND]

Hey, do you remember writing this?

I do! You are blinded by your false theology.

It seems ad hominem is exclusively your domain.
Now, if you have determined what God's "My law" that isn't from Sinai refers to, why not share it with us?

I did.

This is entirely speculation with nothing Scriptural to support it.

You mean to say that God didn't expect Adam and Eve to love Him and have no other Gods or obey His instruction and to love each other as themselves? Really?

When you make an effort to figure out what My law God has given us, please let us know. So far you have come up horribly short of an answer.

If I do will you take the blinders off long enough to attempt to understand it?

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Love God. Love neighbor. Simple stuff. Take the blinders off Victor and you'll be able to see that point clearly.

 

[VictorC]

I did.

Don't be shy - share it with us.

 

[VictorC]

Uh, really? Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of the English language knows I haven't advocated breaking any of the 10C's with you.

Review your own posts, and acknowledge that you have borne false witness.

Your theology is showing Victor! Antinomianism.

That is the label slapped on those who comply with the Pauline epistles. You haven't found any alternative to the theology he documented consistently of God's redemption, as I showed you both in my very first post on this thread.