I have a question

[SNPete]

My wife wanted me to ask this.

1. How do WoF people view the issue of illness in the believer. Is it sin based?

2. Why would a person like Joni Erirkson Tada suffer an injury that left her a quad?

Thank you for your time.

 

[riverpastor]

When you ask, "Is it sin-based?" do you mean it's caused by some sin committed by a person or do you mean that sin brought along with it a curse that includes sickness and disease?

I opt for the latter... that dominion of this earth was given to satan through Adam's deception. Remember that satan told Jesus during the temptation...

Luke 4:6-7 - ...All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.​

Jesus didn't deny this fact, however He did come and release the Kingdom of God into impossible situations and healed the sick, diseased, oppressed.

He released a greater authority that is born out of the Kingdom. He released a greater dominion than what satan himself had an actual right to!

Joni Erika Tada - great woman of God, lovely pictures, quadriplegic due to an injury in a world under the dominion of satan. Can she be healed? I believe she can be. What would it take? Not exactly all sure. What I do believe is that the Christian believer is the one with the responsibility to release the Kingdom (dominion of the King) into this realm to do the works of Jesus. We are His ambassadors in this world...

or...

we are simply theological believers without any real Presence of God in our lives.

 

[DMW]

I agree with Riverpastor, that Joni Erirkson Tada could be healed. But why she hasnt is between her and God. Her case is often cited as a test case for those who believe God's will is healing. If anyone claims she lacked faith, they are seen as insensitive and hard-hearted. But the fact that a good or sincere person failed to receive isnt the basis for doctrine. There have been many great men of God who in later years, didnt seem able to receive for themselves what they led so many others into. The fact that healing is promised in the Word is no guarantee that an individual will have faith to receive and then stand until victory manifests.
Many of the testimonies of those who claim to have "tried everything the faith people teach, but still didnt get healed" usually reveal quite a bit in their testimony that is not faith at all.
With respect to healing, few of them are instantaneous, yet that is all most people are willing to look for. If a lifestyle of faith is prescribed, or a discipline of standing and patiently enduring is required, few Christians are willing to fight the good fight.
No one should pass judgement on Joni or anyone else who hasnt seemed to manifest everything promised in the Word. There are Christians addicted to prescription drugs, even though Jesus has bought their freedom. Is drug addiction then God's will? There are believers struggling in thier relationships even though the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts and love never fails. Does this mean strife and divorce are God's will? Some Christians stay overweight and fight obesity their whole lives...does God have some purpose in their condition? I dont mean to be unkind, but I can never accept that Jesus purchased anything less than total redemption from the works of the devil. We should aspire to receive everything Jesus came to give, and try to encourage each other as much as we can.

Dan

 

[Hungree]

My wife wanted me to ask this.

1. How do WoF people view the issue of illness in the believer. Is it sin based?

2. Why would a person like Joni Erirkson Tada suffer an injury that left her a quad?

Thank you for your time.

1. Do you mean illness being sin based that God will make you sick if you sin? If so, no. Illness in the believer is caused by Satan and God provided our healing in the atonement.
2. Joni Erirkson Tada was allowed for this to happen for the glory of God. Christ died for her healing (Isaiah 53:4-5) and God healed her 2000 years ago just like he saved her 2000 years ago. She accepted that salvation whenever she did (I don't know when) and she can also accept her healig whenever she wants to and believes God for it. God supplied her healing 2000 years ago. Does her being a quad make her lesser of a Christian? Absolutely not, it might even make her better than some who are healed, but that doesn't change the fact that God already supplied her healing.

 

[Br_Rhoades]

My wife wanted me to ask this.

1. How do WoF people view the issue of illness in the believer. Is it sin based?

2. Why would a person like Joni Erirkson Tada suffer an injury that left her a quad?

Thank you for your time.

Yetti the pink hath only told us of spam of the great X.

Jesus Christ the son of God and God has died to set men free, Bobdod is pink and slack to the one true God - every one shall bow to Christ alone.

 

[SNPete]

Yetti the pink hath only told us of spam of the great X.

Jesus Christ the son of God and God has died to set men free, Bobdod is pink and slack to the one true God - every one shall bow to Christ alone.

Your post to me contains mystery.

I hope your response was art and irony.

I sought knowlege and a point of view.

Mark 11:23 must be planted by God to be true.

In Christ, Pete.

 

[Br_Rhoades]

Thank you for the reply.

Your post to me contains mystery.

I hope your response was art and irony.

I sought knowlege and a point of view.

Mark 11:23 must be planted by God to be true.

In Christ, Pete.

I know the church of the subgenius and I have read your profile from your profile you still seem to fit into this groups view, as they are very caustic and very not Christian even by the wide path view of this forum. I ask a few small questions, you do not have to answer. You still could be a Christian, just confused about your bad choice of icons, or even doing this for shock effect to get attention. I know that this forum does not see what you have done with any understanding and you may have done this in total innocence as a lark, so may I ask four simple questions.

1. Do you Pete believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and is 100% God and 100% Man?

2. Do you believe that Jesus Christ of John 14:6 is the only way and truth and life for mankind?

3. Do you believe that Jesus did die on the cross and was raised from the dead by God even as spoken in Romans 10:9,10?

For info on Pete's 'art' choice http://www.subgenius.com/ Do not go to this site if you are not ready to dunk in brain swill. I came out of the Church of Satan and this group is very real and very dangerous.

 

[SNPete]

Thank you for the reply.



I know the church of the subgenius and I have read your profile from your profile you still seem to fit into this groups view, as they are very caustic and very not Christian even by the wide path view of this forum. I ask a few small questions, you do not have to answer. You still could be a Christian, just confused about your bad choice of icons, or even doing this for shock effect to get attention. I know that this forum does not see what you have done with any understanding and you may have done this in total innocence as a lark, so may I ask four simple questions.

1. Do you Pete believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and is 100% God and 100% Man?

2. Do you believe that Jesus Christ of John 14:6 is the only way and truth and life for mankind?

3. Do you believe that Jesus did die on the cross and was raised from the dead by God even as spoken in Romans 10:9,10?

For info on Pete's 'art' choice http://www.subgenius.com/ Do not go to this site if you are not ready to dunk in brain swill. I came out of the Church of Satan and this group is very real and very dangerous.

Well maybe I should work on my profile so people can better understand where I stand spiritually. I haven’t had the time. But you can trace my posts and see what I have said.



Regarding the three scriptures you cite, my answer is a definite yes. Maybe I will write my testimony here and paste parts of it into my profile. I believe the Bible is the word of God and the rule for daily life. I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior in 1981. Was baptized in the HS a few months later. I believe the gifts are for today and have spoken in tongues. The Lord has blessed me with the gifts of wisdom, knowledge and the discerning of spirits. The last gift has been troubling at times.



To me, being a Christian is about relationship with God. I view God as Lord, father, provider and friend. I am not perfect, but God is doing His work in me.



Regarding Bob, I can understand you point, but you are the first person on this and other sites to express concern. Coming out of the Church of Satan as you have said makes me understand why you would be concerned with my choice of avatar. To the best of my knowledge the Church of the Subgenus is a parody site with no spiritual basis. I do believe that the Lord would have convicted me of the evil of using Bob should that be the case. He has not, but if Bob proves to be a stumbling block on this site, I will drop Bob. Bob has proven effective on the three nonreligious sites I visit. It is on those sites where I find ministry. I find it a blessing to discuss theology with agnostics and seekers. I avoid atheists though. They have no interest in spiritual matters.



At any rate there you have it. Mind sharing your testimony?

 

[Br_Rhoades]

Thank you for sharing, and I think I understand better your choice of 'avatar' and your testamony has a great ring of the truth of the Word in your life, for that we give God the glory, for his mercy is great!

Well maybe I should work on my profile so people can better understand where I stand spiritually. I haven’t had the time. But you can trace my posts and see what I have said.

As you might know from the ‘Church of Bob’ your profile is general enough to fit into the X-jesus and Jho-va rant. They say that Jesus is coming back on X day to get even with all the pick slobs that left him to die on the Cross he is coming with a host of hot aliens in a space ship. I have reviewed a lot of the post from your name and again they are general and could have an easy fit into the gospel of Bob (also any thing else including Christian). The question you asked in this thread has some very troll like overtones (but that is not my call). If you have followed the post of Rev Stang you would know that he is anti – Christian in intent and content, it is very funny and 100% not real but this is what makes it so dangerous.

Regarding the three scriptures you cite, my answer is a definite yes. Maybe I will write my testimony here and paste parts of it into my profile. I believe the Bible is the word of God and the rule for daily life. I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior in 1981. Was baptized in the HS a few months later. I believe the gifts are for today and have spoken in tongues. The Lord has blessed me with the gifts of wisdom, knowledge and the discerning of spirits. The last gift has been troubling at times.

Thank you, I think it is your choice and right to pick this avatar – the only reason that it has not been challenged in the ‘Christian’ forums (I hope) is that they do not know what it is. It is like me putting up the Satanic Cross, I have used this and Christians have their heads so buried from the real world that they think it is just another Christian Icon. So in a way my rant is in appreciation and complement of the total ‘spoof’ that this has on the relative security of this system. But I would ask again do you believe that Jesus has come in the flesh died on the cross and was raised from the dead, that Jesus Christ is 100% God and 100% man? Yes or No. I know this may seem strange but your answer is still avoiding the direct question given.

To me, being a Christian is about relationship with God. I view God as Lord, father, provider and friend. I am not perfect, but God is doing His work in me.

That is a very nice summary of how you perceive the Christian faith and the last line is a direct quote from Rev Stang broadcast.

Regarding Bob, I can understand you point, but you are the first person on this and other sites to express concern. Coming out of the Church of Satan as you have said makes me understand why you would be concerned with my choice of avatar. To the best of my knowledge the Church of the Subgenus is a parody site with no spiritual basis. I do believe that the Lord would have convicted me of the evil of using Bob should that be the case. He has not, but if Bob proves to be a stumbling block on this site, I will drop Bob. Bob has proven effective on the three nonreligious sites I visit. It is on those sites where I find ministry. I find it a blessing to discuss theology with agnostics and seekers. I avoid atheists though. They have no interest in spiritual matters.

You know it is not ‘Bob’ that is the problem; I am concerned for your soul. We all have our reasons for seeking reconciliation to God and Jesus has made provision for all of us in the Cross. Many other religions and good intentions have come to the race of Adam they all fail to fulfill the perfect holiness of God. Only Jesus has made a way of change in the heart of man, Jesus paid the price in full for us so we could be set free from the bondage of sin and death. By his stripes alone we were healed, by his blood alone we are regenerated.

At any rate there you have it. Mind sharing your testimony?

I was regenerated (became a new creation in Christ) confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and that God had raised him from the dead (Dec 1970) I was baptized as a believer (Apr 1971) I received the baptism with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues that same year. I have serve the Lord as a human, and fallen in to many traps one of them was the Church of Satan in Oct 1990 after a bitter church fight I left my ministry and fell into a depression that led me to the Satanic Bible and I became a member (red card toting) of the Church of Satan. I was one of the first grottos on the web – (very bad web – but the first) Star9 was my ID and you can still see some echo of that past in a WWW search. I was working the ether looking for things to mess with and I turned into the wrong gate (or right gate) – I saw my Lord Jesus in time on the cross and my heart was broke anew for the terrible price that he paid for me. In 1994 I started back to the road that I had left it was not an easy path back, but God’s grace and mercy has called me out of what was going to be the destruction of my flesh. By 1998 I had walked out of all the deception that Satan had set for me that path work went from Satanism, Unitarianism/ WICCA, Roman ‘C’ (conformation 1995 post V2) back into main line Christian faith. I have studied many religions and do agree that it is a relationship not a religion. I hope this helps some. I have much more but it is too large for this forum.

 

[SNPete]

As you might know from the ‘Church of Bob’ your profile is general enough to fit into the X-jesus and Jho-va rant. They say that Jesus is coming back on X day to get even with all the pick slobs that left him to die on the Cross he is coming with a host of hot aliens in a space ship. I have reviewed a lot of the post from your name and again they are general and could have an easy fit into the gospel of Bob (also any thing else including Christian). The question you asked in this thread has some very troll like overtones (but that is not my call). If you have followed the post of Rev Stang you would know that he is anti – Christian in intent and content, it is very funny and 100% not real but this is what makes it so dangerous. I think 99% of the people know it is a parody site and a joke.

Tell you the truth I don't know who Rev Stang is. And I have no idea what X-jesus means.





But I would ask again do you believe that Jesus has come in the flesh died on the cross and was raised from the dead, that Jesus Christ is 100% God and 100% man? Yes or No.

Yes I do.

Have you seen my posts on the proof of the Trinity?


You know it is not ‘Bob’ that is the problem; I am concerned for your soul. We all have our reasons for seeking reconciliation to God and Jesus has made provision for all of us in the Cross. Many other religions and good intentions have come to the race of Adam they all fail to fulfill the perfect holiness of God. Only Jesus has made a way of change in the heart of man, Jesus paid the price in full for us so we could be set free from the bondage of sin and death. By his stripes alone we were healed, by his blood alone we are regenerated. We all due respect, I hope you are not one of those kind of Christians who wonders if a person is saved, because they are not in 100% agreement with you? I believe a person can be wrong on a number of secondary issues and be saved. Trusting in the shed blood of Jesus is the foundation.

Sorry to sound annoyed, but I am. and according to the rules of this site, I am not supposed to debate since I am not WoF.

I was regenerated (became a new creation in Christ) confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and that God had raised him from the dead (Dec 1970) I was baptized as a believer (Apr 1971) I received the baptism with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues that same year. I have serve the Lord as a human, and fallen in to many traps one of them was the Church of Satan in Oct 1990 after a bitter church fight I left my ministry and fell into a depression that led me to the Satanic Bible and I became a member (red card toting) of the Church of Satan. I was one of the first grottos on the web – (very bad web – but the first) Star9 was my ID and you can still see some echo of that past in a WWW search. I was working the ether looking for things to mess with and I turned into the wrong gate (or right gate) – I saw my Lord Jesus in time on the cross and my heart was broke anew for the terrible price that he paid for me. In 1994 I started back to the road that I had left it was not an easy path back, but God’s grace and mercy has called me out of what was going to be the destruction of my flesh. By 1998 I had walked out of all the deception that Satan had set for me that path work went from Satanism, Unitarianism/ WICCA, Roman ‘C’ (conformation 1995 post V2) back into main line Christian faith. I have studied many religions and do agree that it is a relationship not a religion. I hope this helps some. I have much more but it is too large for this forum.

Thanks for the info. You must have been really turned off by the bitter church fight to try the Church of satan.

 

[Br_Rhoades]

Thanks for the info. You must have been really turned off by the bitter church fight to try the Church of satan.

The split was and as a matter of fact it hinged on your initial question in this thread and the topic of Job. BTW I do not expect or desire that you would be just like me to be 'Christian', so do not go down that road. I did however read your debate with the Hindi on the trinity and there was nothing you gave that would be outside of the general theology of the church of Bob or the rants of Rev Stang. Except that a Stang rant would have been very much like the one you got from the Hindi that ranted that his sacred text was older and more valuable that the text of the Holy Bible (that is a provable lie by the way – but that is not what we are talking about), so I still had a lot of questions. You may wish to check out the broadcast of the Hour of slack then you as a Bible believing Christian tell me what you think about using a BOB avatar?

 

[SNPete]

I did however read your debate with the Hindi on the trinity and there was nothing you gave that would be outside of the general theology of the church of Bob or the rants of Rev Stang. You may wish to check out the broadcast of the Hour of slack then you as a Bible believing Christian tell me what you think about using a BOB avatar?

Truthfully, you puzzle me. I have been a Christian for over twenty years and I know the Bible and theology well. What is your point?

If you say the this Stang fellow is saying the same stuff as I then maybe he ain't so bad. And no I am not going to pollute my mind with parody from the church of Bob.

Here is my Christian Trinity argument pasted from the Hindu thread. Tell me how it is lacking.

The doctrine of the trinity is not stated in one sentence per se in the Bible, but rather like this. If A=B and B=C then A=C. So we have scriptures that say Jesus is God such as John 1:1 and 1:14 plus Phil 2:5-8. Other scriptures say the Holy Spirit is God such as Romans 8:9-11 and 2Cor 3:3 and 17-18. Acts 5:3-4. This is the short list. There are more scriptures that support the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit.



There are also a number of scriptures that state the same attribute for God and Jesus. Jesus and God cannot both posses these attributes, unless they are one and the same.



Compare what is said about God and Jesus:


As Creator of all things

God: Genesis 1:1

Jesus: Colossians 1:16

As Savior

God: Isaiah 43:10

Jesus: Titus 3:6

The Alpha and Omega

God: Revelation 21:6 Jesus Rev.22:13

 

[Br_Rhoades]

I think that we puzzle each other, I am thankful that our father is not confused at all. I did read your post, but I think that the potential debate that we could get into on the merit of arguing with no foundation would only get both of us kicked out of this forum. I also believe in the trinity as found in 1 John 5:7, just so you do not perceive this a reason for not getting ‘into’ that part of the debate. You point is great in your ability to express what you have learned, but lacks in creating a foundational formulation to express the point from that place that can be assimilated by the target group. Your choice of avatar and profile has much the same effect. But I do not think that ‘WOF’ is the place to hash this one out, as you are ‘ok’ to the moderators and you are ‘playing nice’ I guess I have to add the Church of Bob to my list of anti-Christian organizations to not say bad things about. I wonder if they would let the WICCA for Christ in too?

Truthfully, you puzzle me. I have been a Christian for over twenty years and I know the Bible and theology well. What is your point?

If you say the this Stang fellow is saying the same stuff as I then maybe he ain't so bad. And no I am not going to pollute my mind with parody from the church of Bob.

Here is my Christian Trinity argument pasted from the Hindu thread. Tell me how it is lacking.

The doctrine of the trinity is not stated in one sentence per se in the Bible, but rather like this. If A=B and B=C then A=C. So we have scriptures that say Jesus is God such as John 1:1 and 1:14 plus Phil 2:5-8. Other scriptures say the Holy Spirit is God such as Romans 8:9-11 and 2Cor 3:3 and 17-18. Acts 5:3-4. This is the short list. There are more scriptures that support the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit.



There are also a number of scriptures that state the same attribute for God and Jesus. Jesus and God cannot both posses these attributes, unless they are one and the same.



Compare
what is said about God and Jesus:


As Creator of all things

God: Genesis 1:1

Jesus: Colossians 1:16

As Savior

God: Isaiah 43:10

Jesus: Titus 3:6

The Alpha and Omega

God: Revelation 21:6 Jesus Rev.22:13

 

[SNPete]

I think that we puzzle each other, I am thankful that our father is not confused at all. I did read your post, but I think that the potential debate that we could get into on the merit of arguing with no foundation would only get both of us kicked out of this forum. I also believe in the trinity as found in 1 John 5:7, just so you do not perceive this a reason for not getting ‘into’ that part of the debate. You point is great in your ability to express what you have learned, but lacks in creating a foundational formulation to express the point from that place that can be assimilated by the target group. Your choice of avatar and profile has much the same effect. But I do not think that ‘WOF’ is the place to hash this one out, as you are ‘ok’ to the moderators and you are ‘playing nice’ I guess I have to add the Church of Bob to my list of anti-Christian organizations to not say bad things about. I wonder if they would let the WICCA for Christ in too?

Appealed to the moderators? Hmm... I appreciate their wisdom.

Let us end it here. It is bad form for members of the Body to argue. At least it was done out of the public's eye. So Goodbye and may God bless you!