I have a friend asking questions about the Office of the Keys...

[Edial]

Actually there are a lot of churches who don't allow their congregants to drink directly from the common cup anymore. If they wish to do so, it's done by intinction (sp?). That is to say, the wafer is dipped into the cup and placed on the communicant's toungue. I went to a Mission Church whilst attending ELCA many years ago and this (intinction) is how they did communion. They were meeting in a rented hall (a school cafeteria) with no facilities to clean the articles of communion.

I was given to understand that intinction is a very old practice and was quite acceptable. Then again, it was an ELCA church. Admittedly, the pastor was one of the best I've had the pleasure of being acquainted with.

Actually there was a whole otther thread on that.

I just tried presenting a joke knowing that DaRev likes the common Cup.
I don't have a problem with common Cup, small cups, wine or grape juice.

It is not the matter (in my opinion) how this is processed.
What matters is what the content is.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[ctay]

I met these 2 ladies at that church without a pastor right now, someone in the church needed some help and they gave me some money to go towards a gift card to a grocery store, I picked up a bulletin, brought it home and was looking through it and noticed that layperson of the church was on the call list. I know one of the ladies awhile back said something about he could go back to school for a little bit more and become like a pastor or something in no time but he could only pastor that church and couldn't do it anywhere else. If they get around to getting him to pastor that church, the clique is still going to be there, they need a strong leader that hopefully would get rid of that clique. Whenever I've been to that church and he's done the service and does communion, I hadn't took it. I just feel right taking it from a layperson. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy Lutheran that can't change.

 

[DaRev]

I met these 2 ladies at that church without a pastor right now, someone in the church needed some help and they gave me some money to go towards a gift card to a grocery store, I picked up a bulletin, brought it home and was looking through it and noticed that layperson of the church was on the call list. I know one of the ladies awhile back said something about he could go back to school for a little bit more and become like a pastor or something in no time but he could only pastor that church and couldn't do it anywhere else. If they get around to getting him to pastor that church, the clique is still going to be there, they need a strong leader that hopefully would get rid of that clique. Whenever I've been to that church and he's done the service and does communion, I hadn't took it. I just feel right taking it from a layperson. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy Lutheran that can't change.

They may be referring to the DELTO (Distance Education Leading To Ordination) program, which no longer exists (Thank you Jesus!!). It has been replaced with the Specific Ministry Pastor Program which is much different and has has different requirements. DELTO had been widely abused by congregations, thinking they could have a layperson take classes while serving as pastor in order to avoid calling an ordianed minister. Hopefully this new SMPP will rectify that.

 

[RadMan]

4. Is the SMPP a part of the Synod’s Ablaze! Program?

The SMPP program traces its roots back to the Assisting Pastor proposal that was sent by a task force to the 2001 convention. Thus it has been under discussion and in development for nearly seven years. Nevertheless, it does provide a way to prepare pastors in accord with AC XIV for goal of planting 2000 new congregations as adopted by the 2004 synodical convention.

 

[ctay]

They may be referring to the DELTO (Distance Education Leading To Ordination) program, which no longer exists (Thank you Jesus!!). It has been replaced with the Specific Ministry Pastor Program which is much different and has has different requirements. DELTO had been widely abused by congregations, thinking they could have a layperson take classes while serving as pastor in order to avoid calling an ordianed minister. Hopefully this new SMPP will rectify that.

Maybe that's what they are thinking of sending him to. If they do that, I'm gone for good, the church needs a strong leader and he's to easy going and he's in with the clique of the church, I've been going back because of the braille and having trouble finding anyone to do it. I may just send the braille back or see if another church will pick it up.

 

[porterross]

Maybe that's what they are thinking of sending him to. If they do that, I'm gone for good, the church needs a strong leader and he's to easy going and he's in with the clique of the church, I've been going back because of the braille and having trouble finding anyone to do it. I may just send the braille back or see if another church will pick it up.

Boy, does that sound familiar! Unfortunately, he doesn't go anywhere for proper instruction and it really shows. Don't expect things or his way of handling them to change. It's all but killed the local LC-MS here, but those who decided it was necessary refuse to admit it. Unfortunately, when the doors close due to lack of funds, they might have to, but I'm not counting on that either. It boggles my mind how the synod can allow such travesties to occur.

 

[ctay]

I don't think this church thinks they have a clique going on but it does and can't figure out why quite a few left the church and a few more are thinking about leaving. I was there yesterday setting the braille up and a lady came in for something and before she left she told me not to have it spread out everywhere which I don't anyway, it stays in one small corner, because a vicar is coming to check the church out tomorrow. I probably wouldn't have let it bother me but the church was in a mess, stays in a mess and no one says anything about it. There's a few that don't respect the church at all. I've cleaned up after everyone when no one was looking, did it because I wanted to, not because I had to, wanted it to look nice if any visitors came and didn't say a word to anyone about how messy it looks all the time.

 

[ctay]

What's PLO?

 

[ctay]

I think that's what I heard sunday what the layperson would go through or something close

 

[ctay]

Ok the call commitee of this church is sending a letter to the district asking if they could hire this person part time and have a pastor visit part time. He's not even a pastor, if the district office says yes and they put a vote out to the congregation, it will probably pass. I kind of hadn't transfered yet, been holding off trying to fight this but looks like I won't win.

 

[Studeclunker]

<snip>
It is not the matter (in my opinion) how this is processed.
What matters is what the content is.

I agree, Ed, to a certain point. Still, using that philosophy can lead to the use of grape juice and Wonder Bread (shudder... leavened bread?) as the elements of communion. Remember, the elements and most of the service are a teaching tool. The elements are one of the most subtle lessons given. "a little leaven, leavens the lot." "let not the leven of the world..." As I'm sure you know, the reason unleavened bread was/is used is to symbolize the sinless condition of Christ's flesh. Being that we aren't the followers of Zwinglii, we continue to believe in the real presence in the elements. Therefore using something, like leavened bread, for Christ's flesh is... inappropriate. Therefore the physical presentation of Christ's elements is very important.



Ctay, I remember being in a similar situation as far as a clique running a congregation. In this case, it was a single family that controlled the congregation. They had a strangle hold on the place. When the ELCA's leadership insisted that we have meetings with the original parent church for 'blending', the motive of this family came out. It seems that their patriarch was of the opinion that the members remaining should get any return from the sale of the church property after the closing of it. The leadership of the ELCA set them straight. They informed our little congregation that we would be blended with St Peter in Santa Ana and the ELCA would take all proceeds from the sale of the property for the missions fund. Still, I have no doubt the old man retained some hope of getting the rights to the property in the end. I finally left because of their behaviour. It was less than a year later that I jumped to the LCMS.

 

[ctay]

I don't see how they can call him since he's not even a pastor and his wife chewed me out in church a few weeks ago. She's trying to run things now. If the LCMS lets them hire him part time, and a vote goes to the congregation on it, I'm staying long enough to vote no on it and it will probably pass if the district lets him work part time. I still don't get how they could do it if he's not a pastor. They are fixing to start a prayer garden thinking it will bring people in but it won't, they need a full time pastor, a pastor will bring more people in. They've had visitors but they don't return.