I have a confusing question...

[MerCYsMIraCLe]

And like always i could ask in the theology etc.. forums. However...I would like a response from the Protestant denominations etc...

Here it is...and I hope I make sense.

Many, if not MOST Christians within Protestant denominations believe that when you die - you go to to one of two places- that there is no 'waiting period', sleep or purgatory etc.... However, concerning End Times, the bible states that when Christ returns there will be judgment.

Is this judgment a judgment of those living at the time of Christs return? Do those who have already passed receive their judgment at that time? Or the moment of their death?

I know there are differing opinions of heaven and 'Paradise' or Hell and 'Sheol'...but my question really does not concern WHERE one goes...but at what point in time a person receives their due judgement.

Ugh..I read this and I dont think I am making much sense...do you best to figure me out

 

[Soldat_fur_Christ]

Here's a good summary:

Before Christ's official return he'll rapture all true Christians (Dead and Alive) before a 7 year period known as the tribulation (He'll meet us in the clouds, but that's not an official return as He doesn't touch earth). The tribulation will happen and all those on earth will be judged with the different judgments meted out by God, during this period of time, 12,000 Jews from each tribe will have God's seal placed on them, and they'll go out an preach the Gospel, as they've become Jewish Christians, others will be saved as a result of their preaching, while Antichrist is ruling on earth. At the end of the 7 year period, Jesus returns as conqueror and destorys all of the armies in the battle known as Armaggedon, which will be fought in a huge field in Israel known as Meggido. Antichrist, and his false prophet, and everyone who was on the side of the antichrist will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Christ will set up His 1,000 year reign, along with the saints that surivived the tribulation while the earth is still being subdued. During this time Satan is locked away for the 1,000 years. However at the end of the 1,000 years, the earth still has evil on it, and Satan is realeased briefly to bring forth another revolt for those who aren't truly on God's side. Jesus wipes them out, and then the Great White Throne Judgment takes place where everyone who wasn't truly redeemed by God will stand before Christ and be judged for every work that they did while on earth. They'll all be thrown into the Lake of Fire. *True* Born-Again (Those who have genuinley repented of their sins and received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior through true faith) will not go through the Great White Throne Judgment, but will be judged at another judgment for rewards or loss of rewards.

Rapture (Jesus meets true Christians in clouds)
Tribulation (7 Years)
Christ's 2nd Coming, which starts 1,000 year reign
Satan's Final Rebellion (At end of 1,000 years)
The Universe as we know it is destroyed (After Satan's Rebellion, and when He is cast into Lake of Fire)
Great White Throne Judgement of all unsaved people
Universe is remade, and we will be with God forever...

 

[HOPEOF9]

I understand your question! You did a good job of explaining it.
The scripture mentions "sleep". Here are some examples, they are from KJV just so ya know!

"For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:" Acts 13:36

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed," 1 Cor 15:51

" For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. " 1 THess 4:14

When Christ returns, it won't seem like hundreds of years or a few hours or thousands of years for those who have been dead, but just as a moment of sleep.

The following might make it more confusing, but I need to say it.
God isn't limited to time. He is infinite in power and can be all places at once, let alone all time periods. Kind of boggles the mind, huh? Anywho...We are told that "we know in part" and when we see Christ we will know in full...

I believe it would be unnecessary for God to judge everyone as soon as they die, and then again on "Judgement Day".
I believe Judgement Day is just that.
Hopefully I haven't confused you more.
Blessings!

 

[Iosias]

Ugh..I read this and I dont think I am making much sense...do you best to figure me out

Hope these help:

http://www.rtrc.net/documents/wcf/hodge/wcfaah32.htm
http://www.rtrc.net/documents/wcf/hodge/wcfaah33.htm

http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_81.html

 

[bradfordl]

Here's a good summary:

Before Christ's official return he'll rapture all true Christians (Dead and Alive) before a 7 year period known as the tribulation (He'll meet us in the clouds, but that's not an official return as He doesn't touch earth). The tribulation will happen and all those on earth will be judged with the different judgments meted out by God, during this period of time, 12,000 Jews from each tribe will have God's seal placed on them, and they'll go out an preach the Gospel, as they've become Jewish Christians, others will be saved as a result of their preaching, while Antichrist is ruling on earth. At the end of the 7 year period, Jesus returns as conqueror and destorys all of the armies in the battle known as Armaggedon, which will be fought in a huge field in Israel known as Meggido. Antichrist, and his false prophet, and everyone who was on the side of the antichrist will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Christ will set up His 1,000 year reign, along with the saints that surivived the tribulation while the earth is still being subdued. During this time Satan is locked away for the 1,000 years. However at the end of the 1,000 years, the earth still has evil on it, and Satan is realeased briefly to bring forth another revolt for those who aren't truly on God's side. Jesus wipes them out, and then the Great White Throne Judgment takes place where everyone who wasn't truly redeemed by God will stand before Christ and be judged for every work that they did while on earth. They'll all be thrown into the Lake of Fire. *True* Born-Again (Those who have genuinley repented of their sins and received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior through true faith) will not go through the Great White Throne Judgment, but will be judged at another judgment for rewards or loss of rewards.

Rapture (Jesus meets true Christians in clouds)
Tribulation (7 Years)
Christ's 2nd Coming, which starts 1,000 year reign
Satan's Final Rebellion (At end of 1,000 years)
The Universe as we know it is destroyed (After Satan's Rebellion, and when He is cast into Lake of Fire)
Great White Throne Judgement of all unsaved people
Universe is remade, and we will be with God forever...

Sure glad someone took the time to explain all that to me.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

Here's a good summary:

Before Christ's official return he'll rapture all true Christians (Dead and Alive) before a 7 year period known as the tribulation (He'll meet us in the clouds, but that's not an official return as He doesn't touch earth). The tribulation will happen and all those on earth will be judged with the different judgments meted out by God, during this period of time, 12,000 Jews from each tribe will have God's seal placed on them, and they'll go out an preach the Gospel, as they've become Jewish Christians, others will be saved as a result of their preaching, while Antichrist is ruling on earth. At the end of the 7 year period, Jesus returns as conqueror and destorys all of the armies in the battle known as Armaggedon, which will be fought in a huge field in Israel known as Meggido. Antichrist, and his false prophet, and everyone who was on the side of the antichrist will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Christ will set up His 1,000 year reign, along with the saints that surivived the tribulation while the earth is still being subdued. During this time Satan is locked away for the 1,000 years. However at the end of the 1,000 years, the earth still has evil on it, and Satan is realeased briefly to bring forth another revolt for those who aren't truly on God's side. Jesus wipes them out, and then the Great White Throne Judgment takes place where everyone who wasn't truly redeemed by God will stand before Christ and be judged for every work that they did while on earth. They'll all be thrown into the Lake of Fire. *True* Born-Again (Those who have genuinley repented of their sins and received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior through true faith) will not go through the Great White Throne Judgment, but will be judged at another judgment for rewards or loss of rewards.

Rapture (Jesus meets true Christians in clouds)
Tribulation (7 Years)
Christ's 2nd Coming, which starts 1,000 year reign
Satan's Final Rebellion (At end of 1,000 years)
The Universe as we know it is destroyed (After Satan's Rebellion, and when He is cast into Lake of Fire)
Great White Throne Judgement of all unsaved people
Universe is remade, and we will be with God forever...

I think you'll find that most of us (but not all) here in Semper Reformanda don't agree with the dispensational premillenial scenario you present here.

 

[Techservant]

It means that those tht pass will fo to heaven and the rest will stay on earth and you will have a chance to change your worongs, you always have two places to go.

 

[heymikey80]

And like always i could ask in the theology etc.. forums. However...I would like a response from the Protestant denominations etc...

Here it is...and I hope I make sense.

Many, if not MOST Christians within Protestant denominations believe that when you die - you go to to one of two places- that there is no 'waiting period', sleep or purgatory etc.... However, concerning End Times, the bible states that when Christ returns there will be judgment.

Is this judgment a judgment of those living at the time of Christs return? Do those who have already passed receive their judgment at that time? Or the moment of their death?

I know there are differing opinions of heaven and 'Paradise' or Hell and 'Sheol'...but my question really does not concern WHERE one goes...but at what point in time a person receives their due judgement.

Ugh..I read this and I dont think I am making much sense...do you best to figure me out

It's a good question. What happens in between now and the Last Day?

Well, God administers grace to His people, and justice to others. What does God owe anyone after their death? Nothing. Yet He has said He's prepared a place for us with God, and He will welcome us into His place at our death.

The Resurrection passages would say that God will judge the living and the dead at the Last Day. For who alive would need to be resurrected? And from then we enter a new creation, given a new kind of body to house our indestructible life.

 

[MerCYsMIraCLe]

Told you my question was confusing. I was not talking about the End Times per sey. I am simply talking about where believers and unbelievers go when they die (Prior to End Times)...and does it justify their judgment.

I don't know if one of the posters was talking about soul sleep. I have heard of that before and understand the view widely held by SDA's...but know many within th Protestant and Evangelical circles do NOT hold to it.

Hmmmm....

I do believe that God is not a God with a watch and that time HERE differs from eternal. Perhaps time remains simply on earth?

Do I make sense? I would really like to truly hear what everyone believes surrounding this.

 

[arunma]

Perhaps we should be specific about which judgment we're talking about. The Bible says that believers and unbelievers will be judged, but in different ways. Believers will certainly be judged, but condemnation will not be a possible punishment. Here is the pertinent Scripture:

Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. (1 Corinthians 3:12-15)
​

The usage of the phrase "the Day," suggests that the Apostle is referring to the Day of the Lord.

Now as to a judgment of the living during the end times, I should probably mention that I try to stay away from the Book of Revelation (by that I mean that while I read and study it, I don't pretend to have any clue what it means). I do have a halfway decent grasp of other New Testament theology, though, and the Bible seems to teach a common theme that the righteousness of God won't be fully manifest until the return of Jesus Christ. That suggests to me that those who live in the end times won't be judged differently from everyone else. There's also this:

The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years...And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:5-6,12-15)
​

It appears as though there are two resurrections: one resurrection of believers, and another of unbelievers, and that while believers will be judged, our salvation will be secure by our faith in Jesus Christ.

But again, I'm not really very knowledgable on eschatology.

 

[Imblessed]

I understand exactly what you are asking, and I just don't have an answer for it, as I wonder the same thing myself! LOL

This is what I tentively think right now. That when we die(if we die before Jesus' return) we do go to heaven. I do not think we are 'judged'(I put that in parenthesis because I don't think judge is the best word) until we recieve our eternal bodies though, and that won't happen until His return.

Is there some sort of Abrahams Bosom/Sheol still? I've heard yes and and no. Most seem to think it's either heaven or hell after we die now--but reading Revelation and such seems to indicate that the True real Heaven and Hell won't happen until Jesus' return and the great white throne judgement.

I think after The Last Day, Heaven and Earth will become one and the same. Is that when we are 'judged'? Heck, I dont' know......

I just realize that I'm confusing myself even more trying to answer you!! I can only imagine how you feel! LOL

sorry!

 

[MerCYsMIraCLe]

ROFL..... YES! You got my question...And judged is not the right word. I agree....but you get my point. For instance...if a unregenerate dies today...do they go to hell today? If so...does that qualify as their judgment...or just an obvious result of their unregenerate heart and will face eternal judgment on the last day? Would the reverse happen to us born again believers?

 

[Imblessed]

LOL, glad you understood ME! ha ha ha

I think the bible is pretty vague about all that, so I try not to dwell on it very much. I'm sure when I die, I'll be happy--even if it's not my final place. And I'm equally sure that when unregenerates die, it'll be bad--but maybe not as bad as it WILL be......

so yeah, that's the extent of my knowledge! LOL