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Love is not lust, and lust is not love. And Homosexuality is a lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:17-21). Christians are called to crucify the lusts of the flesh and to live in the Spirit.Except that love is from God, not Satan so something that involves love (like homosexuality) doesnt come from hell.
Love is not lust, and lust is not love. And Homosexuality is a lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:17-21)
Christians are called to crucify the lusts of the flesh and to live in the Spirit.
Yes, God is love, but God is not sin- neither Abomination.
But once again Homosexuality in certain contexts (just like hetrosexuality in certain contexts) is neither sin nor abomination. Hooray!
Yes but I happen to feel a romantic love for my partner on top of that. So it is not comporable to a relationship that is purely "freinds" only to a hetrosexual couple or another homosexual couple.
Yeh you see, no matter how many times you personally tell me the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, I don't think it does. At all.
And I'm not talking about people mis-translating the Bible to suit their personal prejudices either.
Except of course.. that is dosen't PLAINLY say anything of the sort
However many times you wish to insult and degrade my relationship to being merely a "close freindship" you won't suceed because I know that it is JUST as normal, valid and acceptable to God as any hetrosexual couple who are married. Fortunately I am comfortable enough in my relationship and my walk with God to really not care what anyone else has to say on the matter. I know my own relationship thank you.
Corinthians 13-4-8 is always a good place to start.
Except that I would never do that with my partner. Irrelevant.
Sex is an expression of love, a loving consensual relationship tends to have loving consensual sex (unless the people are a-sexual!). The Bible never condemns homosexuality, and it praises loving relationships. That is how I reach my conclusion.
See above. It's beyond a "best freind" relationship no matter how you want to twist it.
[/QUOTE]And this still has nothing to do with heterosexuals or homosexuals CHOOSING to commit acts that God says to not commit.
If that was true, it would mean that God is evil, because a homosexual relationship is the same as a heterosexual relationship. Treating them differently would be an unfair double standard.But you certainly can't get around the fact that thesexual acts between you and someone of the same sex are prohibited.
And once again, in no context do you have any Biblical support, but rather nothing but Biblical opposition, to the committing of sexual acts with members of the same sex.
That's neither here nor there. Are you lusting after this person?
I have personally nevertold you that the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong. It says that those sex acts between homosexuals are wrong. And notice you keep going back to what you THINK instead of what God says.
That's called willful disobedience.
Then deal with the text and what it says. Show where the Bible does anything other than object to you having sex with a person of the same sex.
It does. But you're too busy dealing with what youTHINK instead of what God says.
Some of yall are forever playing the victim. People who say they are comfortable in their sin give testimony to the condition of their hearts.
Then ruminate on 1 Corinthians.
Only irrelevant to the person who wants to ignore what God calls fornication so that they can feel comfortable fornicating.
Why are you so hung up on your orientation? I have at no time said that God's Word condemns you for your orientation.
But you certainly can't get around the fact that thesexual acts between you and someone of the same sex are prohibited.
You can lie to yourself. But it ain't gonna change God's decree.
See SCripture cause outside of God's covenant marriage that a male and female enter into with HIM, you're still fornicating.
Sure it is. You as a homosexual CHOOSE to commit fornicative acts with someone of the same sex. Are you now going to claim that somebody else is making you commit these acts?
Be careful how you present rebukes lest you make it look like you are casting stones.
Besides, don't make to many presumptions on what you believe my beliefs are.
Wrong zacci. I was already against people condemning anyone.
What of the married man who divorces his first wife and takes another bride. It is adultery, but the man is not willing to leave his second wife? Will he not be saved? Is he not forgiven?
Matthew 19:9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
Have you even read my posts. It seems not. God has opened my heart and mind to the feelings of others. He has given me discernment in an area where once I really only had my opinion, personal assumptions. You cannot judge anothers heart or their emotions. Glad you said that. I have already recieved that point long ago....
Some have and in the real world too. If not purposely it is still coming across that way to others.
Really, you speak for all now?
These thread are always about the LAW
Have you not done so as well?
I never let feelings get in the way of God's truth. I am rather blunt.
You can lovingly rebuke anyone. But if you give them no way to turn things around and no example then you have done nothing, but drive them away from you and anything you had to say and this I say to your fault.
"Holier than thou" attitudes do not turn people from sin do they?
You make it sound as if our Salvation is reliant on the law. Is that what you believe?
Or is our Salvation only through the cleansing blood of Christ.
Is our Salvation by grace or by law?
Disagree all you want sir. But it makes it no less true that what people are saying that is NOT biblical are hutring others.
Some concentrate so much on homosexual behavior that they don't even bother with other sins or their own?
Take the plank from your own eye before you attempt to remove the splinter from your brothers. . .
maybe not in those exact words, but the subject of hell does come up quite a bit. BTW I did not lump all Christians together or else I, myself would be lumped in that group along with a bunch of brothers and sisters in Christ who are homosexuals. . .
Matthew 7:1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
What is your definition of sexual immorality?
If that was true, it would mean that God is evil, because a homosexual relationship is the same as a heterosexual relationship. Treating them differently would be an unfair double standard.
In what way did you have a problem with the context?I have no problem righteously casting stones. If you're going to reference Scripture, reference it in the context that it was given.
What in the world are you talking about? I don't even think you know for real...This is the quoted portion you were replying to...want to try again.Of course I've read your posts. That's why I'm commenting. If you feel like you have wronged homosexuals, then by all means atone of it. But fornication is still fornication and it does not change just because we feel like we've mistreated someone.
Miracle_Storm said:Wrong zacci. I was already against people condemning anyone.
What of the married man who divorces his first wife and takes another bride. It is adultery, but the man is not willing to leave his second wife? Will he not be saved? Is he not forgiven?
Matthew 19:9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
Have you even read my posts. It seems not. God has opened my heart and mind to the feelings of others. He has given me discernment in an area where once I really only had my opinion, personal assumptions. You cannot judge anothers heart or their emotions. Glad you said that. I have already recieved that point long ago....
No sir, I said "SOME"zacc said:Your statements presented you to be casting a net around all Christians so why not.
John 6:27Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you.On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."zaac said:Obedience to the Law that is Christ. How's that?
Nope, I asked you a question, you still didn't answerzaac said:Did I say that I had not?
Ah yes, the "living in sin" accusation. . .zaac said:As we have said in numerous threads, there's a difference between disobeying and repenting and not repenting because you don't think what God says is sin to be sin.
No. the issue is with your interpretation.zaac said:Neither I nor any Christian is tasked of Christ to draw men unto ourselves. I'm not attempting to drive them towards me. You give them God's Word in love in let Christ speak and draw people unto Himself.And if folks want to get mad because what they think is refuted with God's Word and they thereby think that what is being said is hateful, I can't do anything about that. The issue is with God's Word.
What will we be measured by? Just want to make sure how you are interpreting Scripture here.zaac said:I'll be the scapegoat if someone wishes. But when they stand before God's throne, they will be measured by His Word, not mine.
...and who does that?zaac said:Apolegetically accommodating their sin doesn't turn them away from it either.
Do you?zaac said:I believe what God's Word says.
I was looking for your interpretation before I share truth with you. So now is our Salvation reliant on the law? Are we saved by grace? Is our Salvation only through the cleansing blood of Christ?zaac said:What does God's Word say?
zaac said:And I do disagree. Because of what YOU have done in the past, you're now apolegetically trying to paint all Christians with the same brush. There are plenty of Christians in this forum who have doe nothing but give God's truth, and the ones who are averse to receiving that truth have attacked them as hateful and bigoted.
I'm not coming "sideways" I'm being very straight, no pun intended.zaac said:But if you're aligned with God's Word and affirm what He says about the committing of same-sex sexual acts, what are you coming at me sodeways for?
Not to those that were saved through HIM.zaac said:Why should hell not come up? Jesus spoke of hell more than anyone else in the Bible.
My point, my point was thiszaac said:It's a decree to righteouslyjudge so what's your point?
Are you having trouble interpreting?Matthew 7:1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
I know what God says. I just would be interested in knowing your interpretation of what God says and so your defintion is very relevant here.zaaci said:My definition is irrelevant. What does God say?
Nope. Love yes, lust no.
It dosen't say sex acts between homosexuals are wrong (really we could go back and forth like this all day).
I notice you keep going on what you THINK God says too. FUnny that. Im afraid it's all any of us can do, unless of course we actually are God.
It has been demonstrated many time on this forum how the verses used to condemn homosexuality refer to prostitution, pagan rituals and just general mistranslation. Seeing as youve completey ignored that time and time again it probably won't really help if I list it all once more. Just look at most of the other threads here.
Erm.. your doing exactly the same thing from a different viewpoint.
When someone asks you to give up the romantic relationship with the person you love you have a right to "play the victim". Im not sinning, I am convinced Im not sinning (well of course I sin, but not due to anything related to my sexuality) . I am convinced God does not see me as sinning.
As I have said before the reason I am here (other than the fact I quite like to argue) is that if just one gay person struggling with their sexuality can read these posts and realize they can have a loving same-sex monogamous relationship AND be a Christian its a wonderful thing to achieved. I KNOW I am here for this reason as opposed to BELIEVING (just pointing out the difference between the two here) as I am me.
Erm I'm not entirely sure what verse you are referring to here? Corinthians 13-1 or do you mean the whole of Corinthians Chapter 1?
I would argue only relevant to one who likes to enjoy self-righteously judging others to make them feel above them.
You can claim you know Gods decree. But in the end your not God.
I simply debate what some people would classify "Gods marriage covenant" as. Its quite simple. Im not debating God, im debating human interpretation of God.
Erm of course I choose to be ntimate with my partner.. you totally missed the point I was making, but oh well..
Do you believe that it's possible for two homosexuals to have a relationship without fornicating? If not, and at the same time it's possible for heterosexuals, then it is an unfair double standard.Naah. That just means that you are so set on doing what you want to that you'd rather brand God as evil than brand yourself as selfishly disobedient.
How is it a double standard to tell the homosexual in a fornicative relationship that he is sinning if He tells the heterosexual ina fornicative relationship that he too is sinning?
In what way did you have a problem with the context?
Did it offend you?
Of course you have no problem "casting stones" as you have made very clear.
What in the world are you talking about? I don't even think you know for real...This is the quoted portion you were replying to...want to try again.
No sir, I said "SOME"Big difference.
John 6:27Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you.On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."
28Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
Nope, I asked you a question, you still didn't answer
Ah yes, the "living in sin" accusation. . .
You think that gives you a right to boast?
No. the issue is with your interpretation.
What will we be measured by? Just want to make sure how you are interpreting Scripture here.
If you are asked, "On what grounds should you enter heaven?" What would you say?
...and who does that?
I was speaking of a "holier than thou" attitude. . .
Do you?
I was looking for your interpretation before I share truth with you.
So now is our Salvation reliant on the law? Are we saved by grace? Is our Salvation only through the cleansing blood of Christ?
Would you actually take the time to read my posts?
How am I painting "ALL" Christians when I said "SOME"?
I'm not coming "sideways" I'm being very straight, no pun intended.
Not to those that were saved through HIM.
My point, my point was this
Are you having trouble interpreting?
I know what God says. I just would be interested in knowing your interpretation of what God says and so your defintion is very relevant here.
Do you believe that it's possible for two homosexuals to have a relationship without fornicating? If not, and at the same time it's possible for heterosexuals, then it is an unfair double standard.
I think it's possible.Do you believe that it's possible for two homosexuals to have a relationship without fornicating? If not, and at the same time it's possible for heterosexuals, then it is an unfair double standard.
Does that apply to heterosexual couples as well?But if there is the appearance of sexual immorality, or if there is lusting taking place, then something needs to change.
Did you know the definition of fornication includes homosexuality?I think it's possible.
I mean, if they are both Christians, they shouldn't have a problem with fornication, as seeing they won't want to have sex til they're married, and that doesn't look as if that's possible unless they move with the Massachusettes people up there....
just my thought
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