I find it interesting that most people appear to be Open Theists without even knowing it

danielmears · Apr 26, 2018

God's supernatural power is what changes everything, grace plus our faith. We have been shown the way but we must believe God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. Even if he knows the future it is still up to us to make correct choices, to love one another and God, realizing He is in us. Then when we ask in faith we will receive our petitions! It is all in the scripture. The Word releases supernatural power. I believe, therefore I speak! Glory to God! It is fascinating and marvelous!

Paidiske · Apr 28, 2018

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St. Helens · Apr 30, 2018

My first introduction to Open Theism was through Gregory Boyd and two of his books, God at War and Satan & the Problem of Evil. I found that Boyd's concept of God was too small and ran counter to many of the Biblical accounts of Him.

While parts of the bible do seem open ended, there are other parts that definitely are not. The Bible if full of prophecies that Jesus fulfilled, in fact there is over a hundred of them that He fulfilled. That does not look open to me.

Micah888 · May 1, 2018

Alpha.Omega said:
"Both Calvinism and Arminianism are wrong".

Since neither of them presents Gospel truth without injecting man-made ideas, then neither of them is really correct. And Doug is correct in saying that we do not have to put everything into specific boxes.

Getting back to Open Theism, it is just more spiritual nonsense.

SavedByGrace3 · May 15, 2018

Beyond Open Theism is the supposition that in order for a created thing to be a genuine "thing" it must possess a certain amount of self direction and the ability to interact freely with other "things." Otherwise the thing is not a true creation, only an extension of the Creator. If a thing possesses no sovereignty, then it is not a genuine thing. This is true of you also. The rock falling and rolling down the hill has mass and reacts to gravity. Each of these are forces awarded at the moment of creation. If the rock strikes someone we call it an accident. God did not do it. If God had caused this rock to fall and hit your head, it would not have been an accident. If God is controlling everything... there are no accidents. Hence creation is a genuine, stand alone universe.

Ron Gurley · May 16, 2018

Open theism, also known as openness theology and free will theism, is a theological movement that has developed within evangelical and post-evangelical Protestant Christianity as a response to ideas related to the synthesis of Greek philosophy and Christian theology. It is typically advanced as a biblically motivated and philosophically consistent theology of human and divine freedom, with an emphasis on what this means for the content of God's foreknowledge and exercise of God's power. Roger E. Olson said that open theism triggered the "most significant controversy about the doctrine of God in evangelical thought" in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.

God calls all men. Man’s free will responds.spiritually

Ron Gurley · May 16, 2018

The character of God is
I mmutablebut God answers prayer

FireDragon76 · Jun 3, 2018

HatGuy said:
Open theism does also claim that God knows every POSSIBLE future, but does not know the future exhaustively, since it doesn't exist.

The 'possible' future bit, I think, is exactly what gets most people to say, "Yes, that makes more sense."

That sounds like process theism, vaguely. They are using a Whitehead type metaphysics as a basis, so the approach is more down to apriori metaphysical concerns. I think they'ld also tend to assume that speaking of the future in certain terms is nonsensical or empty of meaning, since in their mind, the future does not yet exist.

I think open theism is a kind of folk theology, really, and shouldn't be dealt with so harshly. Nobody really understands how God "thinks", and we can't pretend to do so.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 3, 2018

HatGuy said:
This is an interesting observation I thought might stir some interesting discussion.

I often ask people how they think God's plan for their lives work, how they think God works with time and the future etc., and have listened to their responses.

Most people, in my experience, don't seem to know quite how to explain their view in words, so I try to help them a bit with some options. I'll present a basic Calvinist / determinist view, then an Arminian / forewknowledge view, and then an Open Theist view (not necessarily in that order) without actually giving each view names. When I present the options (without naming them) most people tend to go for the Open Theist option, saying that sounds more in tune with their own thinking.

I'm including pastors and leaders. They have often done the same.

I find that interesting. Open Theism is considered a heresy in a lot of circles. Yet when you press people for answers without telling them the name of what it is you're actually explaining, they tend to go for the Open Theist answer.

Why is that?

While Open Theism is wrong, I would say Calvinism is worse.
Open Theism attempts to make God more like man. But God (the Word) was made flesh. His name is Jesus Christ. Granted, Open Theism is wrong because it attempts to limit God's power. But I see Calvinism as worse because it paints God to be unloving and or unjust in my opinion (Which attempts to attack the good moral character of God). The Calvinist's doctrine of Unconditional Election is the worst point in the Tulip flower followed by the Perseverance of the Saints. For Unconditional Election is saying that God chooses some to be saved based upon no condition in the individual (or what they will do). God just appears to pick those who are saved and not saved based on some kind of whim. This reminds me of a scenario of a fire fighter or coast guard not choosing to save some people just because they do not feel like it. But does not the Scriptures say, "God is love"? Perseverance of the Saints is a problem, too. For it is saying that once a person is saved, they are always saved. But Hebrews 3 warns about how if we are not careful about the deceitfulness of sin, we can have an evil heart of unbelief and depart from the living God. Believers are also warned about how certain sins can cause spiritual death, as well (See Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 3:15, etc.). So from my perspective, it is making light of the reality of the dangers of sin and it is an attack upon God's good character involving morality or fair justice. Granted, there are some Calvinist groups that do appear to be for holiness, but do they teach that committing certain sins lead to spiritual death if they are not repented of?

SavedByGrace3 · Jun 3, 2018

It is truly odd that the words "sovereignty" and "control" do not exist in the KJV of the scriptures, yet these words have total sway over much of our theology. May I suggest the book: "The 'God is in Control of Everything' Myth."
It takes Open Theism a step further and shows that we live in a free and open creation that is open to almost limitless possibilities. A creation of the possible. That is the way God created it, and that is the way He planned it.

FireDragon76 · Jun 3, 2018

Didaskalos said:
It is truly odd that the words "sovereignty" and "control" do not exist in the KJV of the scriptures, yet these word have total sway over much of our theology. May I suggest the book: "The 'God is in Control of Everything' Myth."
It takes Open Theism a step further and shows that we live in a free and open creation that is open to almost limitless possibilities. A creation of the possible. That is the way God created it, and that is the way He planned it.

It's mostly an issue among Calvinists. Everybody else is more willing to admit that God doesn't "make everything happen".

gordonhooker · Jun 3, 2018

Doug Melven said:
Both Calvinism and Arminianism are wrong.
I have never heard of "Open Theism", but if it says that God can't know the future, then it is wrong as well.
Why does everything have to be put into one of these three little boxes?

I am assuming you are neither a Calvinist or an Arminian

bbbbbbb · Jun 3, 2018

FireDragon76 said:
It's mostly an issue among Calvinists. Everybody else is more willing to admit that God doesn't "make everything happen".

Does God make anything happen?

Doug Melven · Jun 3, 2018

gordonhooker said:
I am assuming you are neither a Calvinist or an Arminian

You would be correct with that assumption.
Calvinist's believe God only predestines some for eternal life, the rest can go to hell.
Arminian's believe you can lose eternal life that God gave you as a gift.
Both are wrong

gordonhooker · Jun 3, 2018

Doug Melven said:
You would be correct with that assumption.
Calvinist's believe God only predestines some for eternal life, the rest can go to hell.
Arminian's believe you can lose eternal life that God gave you as a gift.
Both are wrong

I gathered that Doug I was trying to be funny

bbbbbbb · Jun 3, 2018

Doug Melven said:
You would be correct with that assumption.
Calvinist's believe God only predestines some for eternal life, the rest can go to hell.
Arminian's believe you can lose eternal life that God gave you as a gift.
Both are wrong

So, does God predestine everyone to go to heaven?

Doug Melven · Jun 4, 2018

bbbbbbb said:
So, does God predestine everyone to go to heaven?

No, He doesn't predestine for Heaven or Hell.
He predestines for service, not eternal life or death.

bbbbbbb · Jun 4, 2018

Doug Melven said:
No, He doesn't predestine for Heaven or Hell.
He predestines for service, not eternal life or death.

Interesting. Does God predestine people who choose to go to hell, for service or does He only predestine people who choose to go to heaven?

Doug Melven · Jun 4, 2018

bbbbbbb said:
Interesting. Does God predestine people who choose to go to hell, for service or does He only predestine people who choose to go to heaven?

God doesn't predestine anybody to go to Heaven or Hell.

Judas was not predestined to go to hell, he was predestined to betray Jesus, Judas chose not to be saved.
God predestined Pharaoh to show God's power. Pharaoh chose to reject God.
God predestined believers would be holy and without blame. That is any who came to believe would be holy and blameless.

bbbbbbb · Jun 4, 2018

Doug Melven said:
God doesn't predestine anybody to go to Heaven or Hell.

Judas was not predestined to go to hell, he was predestined to betray Jesus, Judas chose not to be saved.
God predestined Pharaoh to show God's power. Pharaoh chose to reject God.
God predestined believers would be holy and without blame. That is any who came to believe would be holy and blameless.

Then, if I understand you correctly, God has predestined from eternity the absolute outcome (holy and blameless) for every individual who becomes a Christian. That outcome was determined in eternity past and is destined to happen for each of these individuals.

I find it interesting that most people appear to be Open Theists without even knowing it

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