I felt a calling to come back here

[FenderElctrc]

When I woke up this morning, I felt a calling to come here. I don't know why, because I don't want to be here. I acted very bad last time and I haven't been here for a while. But, because I felt God was telling me to come here, I will come.

Romans 5:12-21:

Death in Adam, Life in Christ

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


All men sin. We are all born into sin. We all have our own problems. My problem was sexual impurity. I used to be addicted to porn and I'm just now, finally, giving up masturbation. It's very tough to leave these things. Temptation overwhelms you to a point where you just sin again. The only way I got out of my sins was by begging for Jesus' help and having faith in him. Actually, he literally told me where to go to get help and it's working. Well, this also applies to homosexuality. We must all give up our sins no matter how good they may seem. I used to think nothing was wrong with masturbation. That was until I read in the Bible where it says that to lust after someone is adultery of the heart. I've struggled and I'm still struggling right now to stay clean. We can leave our sins. It's impossible to leave our sins by ourselves though. It can only happen through the Grace and Love of Jesus, our Lord and Savior. Please listen to this message, soak it in. Leave your sins behind and walk the path of righteousness. God made Adam. God brought all of the animals to Adam and he named him, but Adam didn't feel close to any. They weren't good partners for him. So, God put Adam into a deep sleep and took out one of his ribs and filled the space with flesh. He then, with the rib, made a woman called Eve. So, as you can see, God made woman for man. Only a man and woman could reproduce. God made it this way. But, they could only have sexual intercourse within marriage. I'm just trying to show you guys why man can't be with man and woman can't be with woman. I'm not saying this in an offensive way or hateful way. All those people who say, "God hates gays" are 100% incorrect. God loves everyone. God loves the murderers, adulterers, thieves, etc. He loves all of the sinners. He wants us to leave our sin so we can live with him for all of eternity. He gave us that chance by sending Jesus. Jesus died for us and took on our sins so that we may enter the Kingdom of God.

Leave your sins and follow Jesus. God Bless.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

When I woke up this morning, I felt a calling to come here. I don't know why, because I don't want to be here. I acted very bad last time and I haven't been here for a while. But, because I felt God was telling me to come here, I will come.

Romans 5:12-21:

Death in Adam, Life in Christ

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


All men sin. We are all born into sin. We all have our own problems. My problem was sexual impurity. I used to be addicted to porn and I'm just now, finally, giving up masturbation. It's very tough to leave these things. Temptation overwhelms you to a point where you just sin again. The only way I got out of my sins was by begging for Jesus' help and having faith in him. Actually, he literally told me where to go to get help and it's working. Well, this also applies to homosexuality. We must all give up our sins no matter how good they may seem. I used to think nothing was wrong with masturbation. That was until I read in the Bible where it says that to lust after someone is adultery of the heart. I've struggled and I'm still struggling right now to stay clean. We can leave our sins. It's impossible to leave our sins by ourselves though. It can only happen through the Grace and Love of Jesus, our Lord and Savior. Please listen to this message, soak it in. Leave your sins behind and walk the path of righteousness. God made Adam. God brought all of the animals to Adam and he named him, but Adam didn't feel close to any. They weren't good partners for him. So, God put Adam into a deep sleep and took out one of his ribs and filled the space with flesh. He then, with the rib, made a woman called Eve. So, as you can see, God made woman for man. Only a man and woman could reproduce. God made it this way. But, they could only have sexual intercourse within marriage. I'm just trying to show you guys why man can't be with man and woman can't be with woman. I'm not saying this in an offensive way or hateful way. All those people who say, "God hates gays" are 100% incorrect. God loves everyone. God loves the murderers, adulterers, thieves, etc. He loves all of the sinners. He wants us to leave our sin so we can live with him for all of eternity. He gave us that chance by sending Jesus. Jesus died for us and took on our sins so that we may enter the Kingdom of God.

Leave your sins and follow Jesus. God Bless.

The bible is used by many word wide. You read the bible and interpret based on your fundamentalist teachings...hence why fundamentalists are filled with guilt, low self-confidence and self-esteem issues. You may want to look at your teachings and perhaps see if they are making you feel like you need be a mini-god in order to have any sort of a life. Fundamentalists are very hard and radical. They continually beat up others for being different...make people change to fit in...to not accept reason but simply "it is because it is".

Your choice, but reading many of your issues here, many stem from the hardcore militant orthadox of a fundamentalist that you have allowed to control your mind and well-being. Just food for thought.

 

[Time4AChange]

Thanks for your obedience to the Holy Spirit. He placed in your heart to come back and say what you said, and that's what you did. God bless you my brother.

That was a good testimony....i too have struggled with sexual sins such as porn and masturbation, so i know how hard it is to break the addiction. But we were told up front through God's Word that this walk with Christ wasnt going to be an easy one. If we're going to come after Him, we are to deny ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Him. It's SO hard, but it's a requirement as a servant of God.

I truly hate sin, and i truly hate the devil....because He's good at what he does. Even tho he uses the same tired tactics over and over, we allow him to bound us so many times. Our flesh is so weak, and we are so lost without Christ it's not even funny. We could be in sin and not even know it because of this flesh that we live in. It's so sad.

I love all you guys/gals on here...and i'll keep you all in prayer. My heart is so broken right now, and im so weak. My sins became so repulsive to me in a matter of seconds. I plead with all of you to look to the Lord and start begging for His help the way Fender did. I especially need to start doin that, cuz we all need help.

Lord please help us.....ill pray for you guys, please keep me in prayer too. I really do need it. God's starting to show me Himself in a way that is new to me and i'm getting a taste of His pain, and it's not a good feeling bretheren. We're grieving the Holy Spirit (me including) and there's a heart of repentance that He's calling us to have.

Oh my God, help us. Help me Lord.

 

[FenderElctrc]

The bible is used by many word wide. You read the bible and interpret based on your fundamentalist teachings...hence why fundamentalists are filled with guilt, low self-confidence and self-esteem issues. You may want to look at your teachings and perhaps see if they are making you feel like you need be a mini-god in order to have any sort of a life. Fundamentalists are very hard and radical. They continually beat up others for being different...make people change to fit in...to not accept reason but simply "it is because it is".

Your choice, but reading many of your issues here, many stem from the hardcore militant orthadox of a fundamentalist that you have allowed to control your mind and well-being. Just food for thought.

ok. We all have opinions. I'm not orthodox either so I don't know why you said that. I felt a calling to come here. I don't know what you're talking about because I don't really get taught. I don't tend to listen in church. I'm a kid. I get all of my stuff from the Bible and I talk with God. Please don't act like what you say is right and what I say is wrong. Let's be peaceful. You're talking to me very rudely and seem to be acting like someone on the edge to freak out. Let's stop this and not start stuff. I'm sick of fighting.

Also, why do so many people think people who don't agree with homosexuality are haters. I don't hate gays. That's a load of crap. Don't talk to me and say that I'm wrong and I'm being "mind-controlled." No.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

ok. We all have opinions. I'm not orthodox either so I don't know why you said that. I felt a calling to come here. I don't know what you're talking about because I don't really get taught. I don't tend to listen in church. I'm a kid. I get all of my stuff from the Bible and I talk with God. Please don't act like what you say is right and what I say is wrong. Let's be peaceful. You're talking to me very rudely and seem to be acting like someone on the edge to freak out. Let's stop this and not start stuff. I'm sick of fighting.

Also, why do so many people think people who don't agree with homosexuality are haters. I don't hate gays. That's a load of crap. Don't talk to me and say that I'm wrong and I'm being "mind-controlled." No.

Dude, read my post again. I'm not telling you anything, but simply asking you to think about what it is your making so hard on yourself. I'm not saying what I believe is right, nor what you believe is wrong. I'm just asking you if you are putting unreachable demands on yourself, and then beating yourself up b/c you can't reach them. You speak about masturbation being against the bible, when the bible does not say ANYTHING about that. Man suggests that that equates to lust, and thus lust equals sin, therefore touching yourself is sin. That is all man made doctrine and not bible based whatsoever. As a kid...you have much to learn,a nd it's all about growing up. You're not an expert on matters, nor am I. You have your path as does everyone else. I just hate kids beating themselves up because they believe they need to be a certain way in order to be accepted by God. You do NOT! God loves you just the way you are. You are here the way he wants you here, and you will live the life He has set out for you. Don't be so hard on yourself based on RULES you believe you need to follow. That is all I am saying. I am not fighting, I'm not telling you someone is mind controling you or anything like that. Relax, and try not to be so defensive. My comments were based on fundamentalism which is NOT a good thing. Orthadox is just a term for people that are hard core old school and are militant in the oppositoin to change. Anytime the term fundamental is used, one must proceed with caution as it is an extreme, and anything extreme is never a good thing...ever. You see everyday what fundamentalists have done to the Islamic faith...It is no different when fundamentalists take control of a Christian faith. Perhaps not as violent...but certainly as ferocious and as militant.

 

[Onlythingavailable]

Jesus calls us to repentance. A thief is asked to not steal, a married man is to be faithful. Why does this differ from masturbation or homosexuality? All cases involve denying urges. Whether the urge is the result of genetics or upbringing, it's no excuse. If everyone were as they should be, why would Jesus have come?

I suppose the common answer is "masturbation and being gay doesn't hurt anyone, while stealing and adultery does", but what if masturbation and homosexuality hurts God?

 

[FenderElctrc]

Dude, read my post again. I'm not telling you anything, but simply asking you to think about what it is your making so hard on yourself. I'm not saying what I believe is right, nor what you believe is wrong. I'm just asking you if you are putting unreachable demands on yourself, and then beating yourself up b/c you can't reach them. You speak about masturbation being against the bible, when the bible does not say ANYTHING about that. Man suggests that that equates to lust, and thus lust equals sin, therefore touching yourself is sin. That is all man made doctrine and not bible based whatsoever. As a kid...you have much to learn,a nd it's all about growing up. You're not an expert on matters, nor am I. You have your path as does everyone else. I just hate kids beating themselves up because they believe they need to be a certain way in order to be accepted by God. You do NOT! God loves you just the way you are. You are here the way he wants you here, and you will live the life He has set out for you. Don't be so hard on yourself based on RULES you believe you need to follow. That is all I am saying. I am not fighting, I'm not telling you someone is mind controling you or anything like that. Relax, and try not to be so defensive. My comments were based on fundamentalism which is NOT a good thing. Orthadox is just a term for people that are hard core old school and are militant in the oppositoin to change. Anytime the term fundamental is used, one must proceed with caution as it is an extreme, and anything extreme is never a good thing...ever. You see everyday what fundamentalists have done to the Islamic faith...It is no different when fundamentalists take control of a Christian faith. Perhaps not as violent...but certainly as ferocious and as militant.

Every time I touch, I lust. I don't see how it's possible not to. This is why I think it's sin. I don't think masturbation is sin, but the lustful part and it was taking me over. I know what you're saying. I know I was acting wrong not long ago. God literally told me, "You're being condemned by satan." It's not what you think. I've been reading the Gospels. It says that to lust after someone is adultery of the heart. I'm not beating myself up. (anymore) I did until I realized it was satan attacking me. I'm also not like other kids. (I'm not bragging or anything, just saying. If you watched me through the day, you'd see that I don't act like most kids.) I know God accepts me. I'm not like that and I don't just keep saying to myself, "God hates me." No, that's dumb. I'm not like that at all. My problems were sinful and I know they were. God toldd me that by leading me to a passage. Lust is sin. Please don't get me wrong. I'm definitely far from having self-esteem issues. I think it's dumb when people do that. They care so much about stuff. Also, it's wrong to worry about your clothes, what you eat, and what you drink. My step mom told me to care what I look like and I knew that it was wrong. It wasn't until a year or two later that I was reading the Bible and came across Matt. 6:25. So, don't think I'm like that. Alright.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Jesus calls us to repentance. A thief is asked to not steal, a married man is to be faithful. Why does this differ from masturbation or homosexuality? All cases involve denying urges. Whether the urge is the result of genetics or upbringing, it's no excuse. If everyone were as they should be, why would Jesus have come?

I suppose the common answer is "masturbation and being gay doesn't hurt anyone, while stealing and adultery does", but what if masturbation and homosexuality hurts God?

Well I guess for starters is that stealing is a crime, and being married is a vow. Masturbation impacts no one, and it's a human fact of life. Homosexuality is the way God made you so denying yourself how you were created is the same as saying God made a mistake. He doesn't. What people do with their sexuality is the mistake and what's the sin. Your post sounds very fundamental with living life as a sinner, and repenting for everything other than breathing...is breathing sins of the flesh too as perhaps maybe fundamentalists believe that to be a lust for air? I'm not sure. Homosexuality, for me, does not hurt God for it is how he made me. Masturbation does not hurt God for it is part of the human experience, and as such, I embrace the life that he gave me. Pretty simple without getting into fundatmentalist scripture breakdown to the nth degree with just another way of beating yourself up. My opinoin of course.

 

[LoveAlways]

I am glad that you were able to give up pornography and masturbation, since you felt convicted to do so. It could not have been easy.

 

[Onlythingavailable]

Well I guess for starters is that stealing is a crime, and being married is a vow. Masturbation impacts no one, and it's a human fact of life. Homosexuality is the way God made you so denying yourself how you were created is the same as saying God made a mistake. He doesn't. What people do with their sexuality is the mistake and what's the sin. Your post sounds very fundamental with living life as a sinner, and repenting for everything other than breathing...is breathing sins of the flesh too as perhaps maybe fundamentalists believe that to be a lust for air? I'm not sure. Homosexuality, for me, does not hurt God for it is how he made me. Masturbation does not hurt God for it is part of the human experience, and as such, I embrace the life that he gave me. Pretty simple without getting into fundatmentalist scripture breakdown to the nth degree with just another way of beating yourself up. My opinoin of course.

But you still agree with me that humans are to control their lusting, right? That's why I think the "it's the way you were born" argument doesn't fly. Everyone has feelings, emotions and urges to control which by the secular world are considered natural. If that argument is out of the window, where do you turn to except to scripture? I don't think it is unreasonable, or fundamentalist, to accept scripture as truth.

 

[Jessica Lauren]

I'm glad you were able to stop watching Porn. It represents a false sexual image. Bleh.

The only way I got out of my sins was by begging for Jesus' help and having faith in him.

And this was the only way I was able to realize I should stop trying to be someone I'm not.

Actually, he literally told me where to go to get help and it's working.

Bravo!! I'm so happy for you!

So, as you can see, God made woman for man. Only a man and woman could reproduce. God made it this way.

God does everything for a reason. Homosexuals were born this way(yes, BORN this way!) for a reason. He made have made Adam & Eve at first, and heck, he may have even made them men & women to reproduce... but coming from someone who has lived through the fear and everything else of homosexuality... he made us like this NOW for a reason. A reason we may or may not know yet. Sometimes people hide behind their Bibles, their fear, and their close-mindedness, to simply see that maybe we were made this way for a reason. We were born for a reason. We don't really know it of course, but God does. He made me the way I was for a reason. Sorry for that part being a little repetitive, but it is sort of hard to say it any other way. But, things aren't as simple think... even with the Bible. He gave us the Bible, his word, but he also gave us brains. A Bible, IMO, is a guide book. That doesn't mean I don't believe Jesus is my savoir, I mean I believe it is what I said, a guide book, and we use our brains along with it. We also use our hearts and our faith.

I don't think it is unreasonable, or fundamentalist, to accept scripture as truth.

Of course not! But it is unreasonable to think that something that derives from love, and does not harm anyone... God would be against. No matter how you interpret the scripture that has been twisted and turned to be used for hatred.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

But you still agree with me that humans are to control their lusting, right? That's why I think the "it's the way you were born" argument doesn't fly. Everyone has feelings, emotions and urges to control which by the secular world are considered natural. If that argument is out of the window, where do you turn to except to scripture? I don't think it is unreasonable, or fundamentalist, to accept scripture as truth.

There are two different things going on here. One is "being the way you were born" and another is "lust". I am ONLY speaking on behalf of myself. There is a time and a place for everything. Feelings, emotions, urges, lust, etc..all have their place. I can so angry sometimes I feel like putting my fist through the wall. I don't though, b/c I am a person that doesn't have anger issues, therefore I resist..the feeling passes. Sometimes I am very emotional. I may be so proud to see my child graduate school that I would want to stand up and scream during the ceremony and say I LOVE YOU and I"M SO PROUD. I don't do that...I know better. I sometime have the urge to have a cigarette, but I don't. I know it's not good for me, so I let the sudden urge pass. However, all of these also offer times when they should not be controlled. The same goes for lust, although, in all honesty, I have an issue determining b/w love and lust. If I was a heterosexual, with lust in my heart for my wife, and she for me...we should FIGHT that? I think not. Do I fight the lust I may have in my heart for someone outside of my marriage...of course.
Humans are just that...humans. We are not perfect, NOR should be strive to be perfect. There is ONE perfect person, and we are not him. We be the best HUMANS we can be...and then look to God to help us along the way. I am a very firm believer that we were given a brain for a purpose. As humans we were also given intelligence, and the ability to reason. We need to determine for OURSELVES what is reasonable and what isn't. Is it reasonable to live like those 200+ years ago...no, i do not. Is the message of the bible still good today..ABSOLUTELY!!! If God wanted us to live literally as in the bible times, he would have given us life 2000 years ago so we could have lived it when it was the time. It's 2007 now. Life is different. We were given life this century b/c we are to live life as a 21st century human being. Does that mean to rape, murder, steal, etc...b/c so many other people do it?? OF COURSE NOT!!!! Does that mean we should be stoned for having sex outside of marriage...of course not. Do I think women should be able to preach? You bet I do. Do I think interracial marriages are acceptable..you bet I do. Do I think gay people are an abomination BECAUSE they are gay...absolutely not! Is it acceptable for gay people to have reckless, carefree sex, that is meaningless..of course not. Does a rapist committ a bigger sin than a girl who has sex with her b/f outside of marriage...you bet I think they do. So there are all sorts of things that times give us. It is up to US to use REASON to determine what needs repenting or not. Humans need to control lots of things...tempers, arrogence, bigotry, lust, you name it. Not everything is lust...and sometimes lust is made out to be WAY more than what needs be. Guys have lust in their hearts for their cars sometimes. Women may have lust in their hearts for some sorta new dress or whatever...perhaps not the best of analogies..but u get my point. Now, with all of this said...what does any of this have to do with "accepting the scriptures as truth"? That just seems totally off onto another subject. If I believe to know what you say, then I'll say something you probably won't agree with. I do not in any way believe we should be following ancient ritual nor ancient customs in 2007. People, for whatever reason, believe that because it's in the bible, it's relative now. It's not. We don't stone people, we don't slaughter animals in our homes, we don't bring animals to alters, we don't burn people in fires, etc. For the same reasons, just because the bible says women shouldn't preach, doesn't mean that should be the case in 2007, etc.... Same for sex. The ancient customs had people married @ 14. To abstain b4 marriage was practical probably because hormones didn't even kick in yet. Regardless I think that some that hold on to that now is very admirable. If they don't..and they're 40 years old..is that such an issue that needs to be discussed? No..not at all. If someone gets divorced b/c their husband is a drunk and a gambler...is that sinning? No..it is not. Do you stay in a marriage like that? No you do not. I'm all over the place with that...but the bottom line is the Bible was written when it was written, in ancient civilization, and in a far off land where culture alone was very different. Today, the MESSAGE is still as loud as ever...the literally reads, however, are not. My opinion of course.

 

[FenderElctrc]

Ok, please stop calling me fundamentalist because I'm far from that. Alrighty.

 

[FenderElctrc]

There are two different things going on here. One is "being the way you were born" and another is "lust". I am ONLY speaking on behalf of myself. There is a time and a place for everything. Feelings, emotions, urges, lust, etc..all have their place. I can so angry sometimes I feel like putting my fist through the wall. I don't though, b/c I am a person that doesn't have anger issues, therefore I resist..the feeling passes. Sometimes I am very emotional. I may be so proud to see my child graduate school that I would want to stand up and scream during the ceremony and say I LOVE YOU and I"M SO PROUD. I don't do that...I know better. I sometime have the urge to have a cigarette, but I don't. I know it's not good for me, so I let the sudden urge pass. However, all of these also offer times when they should not be controlled. The same goes for lust, although, in all honesty, I have an issue determining b/w love and lust. If I was a heterosexual, with lust in my heart for my wife, and she for me...we should FIGHT that? I think not. Do I fight the lust I may have in my heart for someone outside of my marriage...of course.
Humans are just that...humans. We are not perfect, NOR should be strive to be perfect. There is ONE perfect person, and we are not him. We be the best HUMANS we can be...and then look to God to help us along the way. I am a very firm believer that we were given a brain for a purpose. As humans we were also given intelligence, and the ability to reason. We need to determine for OURSELVES what is reasonable and what isn't. Is it reasonable to live like those 200+ years ago...no, i do not. Is the message of the bible still good today..ABSOLUTELY!!! If God wanted us to live literally as in the bible times, he would have given us life 2000 years ago so we could have lived it when it was the time. It's 2007 now. Life is different. We were given life this century b/c we are to live life as a 21st century human being. Does that mean to rape, murder, steal, etc...b/c so many other people do it?? OF COURSE NOT!!!! Does that mean we should be stoned for having sex outside of marriage...of course not. Do I think women should be able to preach? You bet I do. Do I think interracial marriages are acceptable..you bet I do. Do I think gay people are an abomination BECAUSE they are gay...absolutely not! Is it acceptable for gay people to have reckless, carefree sex, that is meaningless..of course not. Does a rapist committ a bigger sin than a girl who has sex with her b/f outside of marriage...you bet I think they do. So there are all sorts of things that times give us. It is up to US to use REASON to determine what needs repenting or not. Humans need to control lots of things...tempers, arrogence, bigotry, lust, you name it. Not everything is lust...and sometimes lust is made out to be WAY more than what needs be. Guys have lust in their hearts for their cars sometimes. Women may have lust in their hearts for some sorta new dress or whatever...perhaps not the best of analogies..but u get my point. Now, with all of this said...what does any of this have to do with "accepting the scriptures as truth"? That just seems totally off onto another subject. If I believe to know what you say, then I'll say something you probably won't agree with. I do not in any way believe we should be following ancient ritual nor ancient customs in 2007. People, for whatever reason, believe that because it's in the bible, it's relative now. It's not. We don't stone people, we don't slaughter animals in our homes, we don't bring animals to alters, we don't burn people in fires, etc. For the same reasons, just because the bible says women shouldn't preach, doesn't mean that should be the case in 2007, etc.... Same for sex. The ancient customs had people married @ 14. To abstain b4 marriage was practical probably because hormones didn't even kick in yet. Regardless I think that some that hold on to that now is very admirable. If they don't..and they're 40 years old..is that such an issue that needs to be discussed? No..not at all. If someone gets divorced b/c their husband is a drunk and a gambler...is that sinning? No..it is not. Do you stay in a marriage like that? No you do not. I'm all over the place with that...but the bottom line is the Bible was written when it was written, in ancient civilization, and in a far off land where culture alone was very different. Today, the MESSAGE is still as loud as ever...the literally reads, however, are not. My opinion of course.

I believe the Bible's half literal and half not. Jesus' parables are figurative and they are showing a point, but Jesus' crucifixion was literal. That happened. We have to understand each and the only way you can do that and get it 100% correct, is by talking with God. God said that he is the author of peace, not confusion. We need to go to him. Also, I believe not having sex ever in your life would be the best decision. Jesus said that the virgins are holy. I'm not saying that I'm going to stay a virgin, because I'm probably not. I look forward to having a family.

Guys, let's stop the fighting and accept our differences. Let's bring peace within each other. Alright. God Bless.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

I believe the Bible's half literal and half not. Jesus' parables are figurative and they are showing a point, but Jesus' crucifixion was literal. That happened. We have to understand each and the only way you can do that and get it 100% correct, is by talking with God. God said that he is the author of peace, not confusion. We need to go to him. Also, I believe not having sex ever in your life would be the best decision. Jesus said that the virgins are holy. I'm not saying that I'm going to stay a virgin, because I'm probably not. I look forward to having a family.

Guys, let's stop the fighting and accept our differences. Let's bring peace within each other. Alright. God Bless.

Sex is very much a part of the human experience for without it, none of us would be here. God gave us all the feelings we have with sex b/c it is meant to be pleasurable and enjoyable. Is it something we should beat ourselves up about, and condemn ourselves for having "sins of the flesh" etc...NO WAY. Just like anything else...abuse it, and it's wrong. Use it the way it was meant...you're just fulfilling what God wanted for you by giving you life.

 

[Time4AChange]

Sex is very much a part of the human experience for without it, none of us would be here. God gave us all the feelings we have with sex b/c it is meant to be pleasurable and enjoyable. Is it something we should beat ourselves up about, and condemn ourselves for having "sins of the flesh" etc...NO WAY. Just like anything else...abuse it, and it's wrong. Use it the way it was meant...you're just fulfilling what God wanted for you by giving you life.

I completely agree with your post. Now sticking to the "if it wasn't for sex none of us would be here" and "use it the way it was meant....you're just fulfilling what God wanted for you by giving you life." statement...does that sound like it condones homosexuality?

According to you, sex (when used the right way) is pleasing to God. God is very clear on what the right way of sex is, it's between a married man and woman.

I know you believe there's nothing wrong with being homosexual, but to me, that belief goes against what you just said in your post. Can you see where im coming from?

And im not trying to be confrontational in anyway, so i hope it doesn't come off that way.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

I completely agree with your post. Now sticking to the "if it wasn't for sex none of us would be here" and "use it the way it was meant....you're just fulfilling what God wanted for you by giving you life." statement...does that sound like it condones homosexuality?

According to you, sex (when used the right way) is pleasing to God. God is very clear on what the right way of sex is, it's between a married man and woman.

I know you believe there's nothing wrong with being homosexual, but to me, that belief goes against what you just said in your post. Can you see where im coming from?

And im not trying to be confrontational in anyway, so i hope it doesn't come off that way.

I don't take what you're saying as confrontational. I totally understand where you are coming from with the statement you made. I hear it all the time. What I mean by the "right" way, is when two people love each other and it is used as a way of expressing that love. My "right" does not mean man/woman. It means LOVE! Most people, world wide, having sex are NOT married men and women. If that were the case, then we wouldn't have the population issues we currently have. With most people being single, and 60+% of marriages ending in divorce, then technically, very few people should be having sex. Sorry...it's not the reality of the situation. Does that mean you do what the majority does? No. But again, if you're 15 years old having unsafe sex (hetero/homo) it's just not right. IF, you're 45 years old having sex (hetero/homo)...no issue at all. No ones business, and I don't think it's sinning. Biblical times people were being married, with mulitple wives as young as 13-14 years of age. Ancient culture and ritual can not cross over to the 21st century.

Anyway, when you read the bible as it is written today, one would think all of this anti "homosexuality" the bible is talking about. When you refer to original scripture, from which the currently English version is coming from", the meanings are very different. Who's correct? I do not know. I will tell you this. If by some crazy chance, theologians from the world over, as well as biblical scholors from all denominations, got together and said..he, just live slavery, and segregation, and the submissing of women...we got it wrong...the churchs now agree that committed, homosexual, loving relations are thought to be loving in God's eyes....how many do you think would change their stand? No one most likely. That's my point. You will not change someone's ideas of what they don't like. If you read Sodom and Gomorrah, the lesson there is the sin of being inhospitable to guests. They were not welcomed, nor were they treated the way they should have been treated. Lot instead threw his daughters (virigin daughters) to the visiting angel in order to "rape them and make them women". How many knows this of the story? Most assume it means the condemning of homosexualilty which it does not.
Next we move on to the typical Leviticus lines where are of ancient, cultural, customs. Man lying with man being an abomination, etc... What about the original text referring to that same statement, however it speaks to the temple prostitutes, engaging in idol worship, and using sex as a weapon to bring weakness to men to efeminate them? Do people know that? Does that = homosexaulity? Defiantely food for thought. So why people all believe to mean homosexauls are an abomination, they have some issues to look past. While they talk all of the above info so literally, then why not the following:

1Samuel 20-40



[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]

After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with is face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together - but David wept the most." (NIV)​

[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Other translations have a different ending to the verse: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another, until David exceeded." (KJV)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David got control of himself." (Amplified Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"and they sadly shook hands, tears running down their cheeks until David could weep no more." (Living Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"They kissed each other and wept together until David got control of himself." (Modern Language)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"They kissed each other and wept aloud together." (New American Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Then David and Jonathan kissed each other. They cried together, but David cried the most." (New Century Version)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Then they kissed one another and shed tears together, until David's grief was even greater than Jonathan's." (Revised English Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David recovered himself." (Revised Standard Version)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The translators of the Living Bible apparently could not handle the thought of two adult men kissing, so they mistranslated the passage by saying that the two men shook hands! This is somewhat less than honest. The original Hebrew text says that they kissed each other and wept together until David became great. The word which means "great" in this passage is "gadal" in the original Hebrew. The same word is used elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to King Solomon being greater than all other kings. Some theologians interpret "gadal" in this verse as indicating that David had an erection. However, the thoughts of David becoming sexually aroused after kissing Jonathan may have been too threatening for Bible translators. They either deleted the ending entirely or created one of their own. [/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]2 Samuel 1:26

"I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women."​

[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]what about Ruth/Naomi??[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me." (NIV)[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]what about [/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Daniel and Ashpenaz[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Daniel 1:9 refers to Ashpenaz, the chief of the court officials of Nebuchadnezzar, the King of Babylon. Various English translations differ greatly: [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Now God had caused the official to show favor and sympathy to Daniel" (NIV)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Now God had brought Daniel into favor and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs" (KJV)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Now God made Daniel to find favor, compassion and loving-kindness with the chief of the eunuchs" (Amplified Bible) [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Now, as it happens, God had given the superintendent a special appreciation for Daniel and sympathy for his predicament" (Living Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Then God granted Daniel favor and sympathy from the chief of the eunuchs" (Modern Language)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Though God had given Daniel the favor and sympathy of the chief chamberlain..." (New American Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"God made Ashpenaz want to be kind and merciful to Daniel" (New Century Version)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"And God gave Daniel favor and compassion in the sight of the chief of the eunuchs" (Revised Standard Version)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"God caused the master to look on Daniel with kindness and goodwill" (Revised English Version)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Interpretation: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Religious conservatives generally view the friendship of Daniel and Ashpenaz as totally non-sexual. It is inconceivable that God would allow a famous prophet of Israel to be a homosexual.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Some religious liberals detect the possibility of a homosexual relationship here. The Hebrew words which describe the relationship between Daniel and Ashpenaz are chesed v'rachamim The most common translation of chesed is "mercy". V'rachamim is in a plural form which is used to emphasize its relative importance. It has multiple meanings: "mercy" and "physical love". It is unreasonable that the original Hebrew would read that Ashpenaz "showed mercy and mercy." A more reasonable translation would thus be that Ashpenaz showed mercy and engaged in physical love" with Daniel. Of course, this would be unacceptable to later translators, so they substitute more innocuous terms. The KJV reference to "tender love" would appear to be the closest to the truth. One might question whether Daniel and Ashpenaz could sexually consummate their relationship. They were both eunuchs. Apparently, when males are castrated after puberty, they still retain sexual drive. It is interesting to note that no other romantic interest or sexual partner of Daniel was mentioned elsewhere in the Bible[/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]



[/FONT]

 

[Time4AChange]

Thanks for replying rick. I appreciate it my brother.

I don't take what you're saying as confrontational. I totally understand where you are coming from with the statement you made. I hear it all the time. What I mean by the "right" way, is when two people love each other and it is used as a way of expressing that love. My "right" does not mean man/woman. It means LOVE! Most people, world wide, having sex are NOT married men and women. If that were the case, then we wouldn't have the population issues we currently have. With most people being single, and 60+% of marriages ending in divorce, then technically, very few people should be having sex. Sorry...it's not the reality of the situation. Does that mean you do what the majority does? No. But again, if you're 15 years old having unsafe sex (hetero/homo) it's just not right. IF, you're 45 years old having sex (hetero/homo)...no issue at all. No ones business, and I don't think it's sinning. Biblical times people were being married, with mulitple wives as young as 13-14 years of age. Ancient culture and ritual can not cross over to the 21st century.

This seems like your definition of what "right" is. You seem to be trying to define what is sin and what isn't by using your logic and the times we're in etc. I believe in God's Word, and according to it...just because you Love someone, doesn't mean you can have sex with them and it's okay in God's eyes. Sex is very, very spiritual...and it's a very serious bond in God's eyes. One that love alone doesn't cover. There needs to be a commitment under marriage or else it's fornication, which IS sin.

And like you said it's not the reality of the situation that we live in, but i thank God even for that. The Bible does say that many will turn to their own ways, and follow the desires of their flesh. All those ppl having sex outside of marriage proves just what the Scripture says. And even though it's normal, and allowed (esp if you're over the age of consent)...that doesn't make it right. God's laws are above all, so even though in today's day and age you have to be 18 to have sex, that's not how God sees it according to His Word. So i do think that very few ppl should be having sex, but that's just not the way it is.....which is fine. People will always do what they want anyway, but thankfully God's Truth isnt something that wavers depending on majority. God's Truth will always be the same.

Anyway, when you read the bible as it is written today, one would think all of this anti "homosexuality" the bible is talking about. When you refer to original scripture, from which the currently English version is coming from", the meanings are very different. Who's correct? I do not know. I will tell you this. If by some crazy chance, theologians from the world over, as well as biblical scholors from all denominations, got together and said..he, just live slavery, and segregation, and the submissing of women...we got it wrong...the churchs now agree that committed, homosexual, loving relations are thought to be loving in God's eyes....how many do you think would change their stand? No one most likely. That's my point. You will not change someone's ideas of what they don't like. If you read Sodom and Gomorrah, the lesson there is the sin of being inhospitable to guests. They were not welcomed, nor were they treated the way they should have been treated. Lot instead threw his daughters (virigin daughters) to the visiting angel in order to "rape them and make them women". How many knows this of the story? Most assume it means the condemning of homosexualilty which it does not.
Next we move on to the typical Leviticus lines where are of ancient, cultural, customs. Man lying with man being an abomination, etc... What about the original text referring to that same statement, however it speaks to the temple prostitutes, engaging in idol worship, and using sex as a weapon to bring weakness to men to efeminate them? Do people know that? Does that = homosexaulity? Defiantely food for thought. So why people all believe to mean homosexauls are an abomination, they have some issues to look past. While they talk all of the above info so literally, then why not the following:

1Samuel 20-40









[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]

After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with is face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together - but David wept the most." (NIV)​

[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Other translations have a different ending to the verse: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another, until David exceeded." (KJV)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David got control of himself." (Amplified Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"and they sadly shook hands, tears running down their cheeks until David could weep no more." (Living Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"They kissed each other and wept together until David got control of himself." (Modern Language)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"They kissed each other and wept aloud together." (New American Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Then David and Jonathan kissed each other. They cried together, but David cried the most." (New Century Version)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Then they kissed one another and shed tears together, until David's grief was even greater than Jonathan's." (Revised English Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David recovered himself." (Revised Standard Version)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The translators of the Living Bible apparently could not handle the thought of two adult men kissing, so they mistranslated the passage by saying that the two men shook hands! This is somewhat less than honest. The original Hebrew text says that they kissed each other and wept together until David became great. The word which means "great" in this passage is "gadal" in the original Hebrew. The same word is used elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to King Solomon being greater than all other kings. Some theologians interpret "gadal" in this verse as indicating that David had an erection. However, the thoughts of David becoming sexually aroused after kissing Jonathan may have been too threatening for Bible translators. They either deleted the ending entirely or created one of their own. [/FONT]







[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]2 Samuel 1:26

"I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women."​

[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]what about Ruth/Naomi??[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me." (NIV)[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]what about [/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Daniel and Ashpenaz[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Daniel 1:9 refers to Ashpenaz, the chief of the court officials of Nebuchadnezzar, the King of Babylon. Various English translations differ greatly: [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Now God had caused the official to show favor and sympathy to Daniel" (NIV)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Now God had brought Daniel into favor and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs" (KJV)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Now God made Daniel to find favor, compassion and loving-kindness with the chief of the eunuchs" (Amplified Bible) [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Now, as it happens, God had given the superintendent a special appreciation for Daniel and sympathy for his predicament" (Living Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Then God granted Daniel favor and sympathy from the chief of the eunuchs" (Modern Language)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Though God had given Daniel the favor and sympathy of the chief chamberlain..." (New American Bible)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"God made Ashpenaz want to be kind and merciful to Daniel" (New Century Version)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"And God gave Daniel favor and compassion in the sight of the chief of the eunuchs" (Revised Standard Version)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"God caused the master to look on Daniel with kindness and goodwill" (Revised English Version)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Interpretation: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Religious conservatives generally view the friendship of Daniel and Ashpenaz as totally non-sexual. It is inconceivable that God would allow a famous prophet of Israel to be a homosexual.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Some religious liberals detect the possibility of a homosexual relationship here. The Hebrew words which describe the relationship between Daniel and Ashpenaz are chesed v'rachamim The most common translation of chesed is "mercy". V'rachamim is in a plural form which is used to emphasize its relative importance. It has multiple meanings: "mercy" and "physical love". It is unreasonable that the original Hebrew would read that Ashpenaz "showed mercy and mercy." A more reasonable translation would thus be that Ashpenaz showed mercy and engaged in physical love" with Daniel. Of course, this would be unacceptable to later translators, so they substitute more innocuous terms. The KJV reference to "tender love" would appear to be the closest to the truth. One might question whether Daniel and Ashpenaz could sexually consummate their relationship. They were both eunuchs. Apparently, when males are castrated after puberty, they still retain sexual drive. It is interesting to note that no other romantic interest or sexual partner of Daniel was mentioned elsewhere in the Bible[/FONT][/FONT]​

I will love to respond to the rest of your post, but i have to go to lunch real soon...and i know i wont get a chance to finish my response now, ill get back to you rick. Again, nothing i said was meant to be sarcastic, or confrontational or anything else. I know sometimes in can come off that way in online discussions when you can't actually hear the other person's tone of voice, etc.

Have a blessed day my brother.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Thanks for replying rick. I appreciate it my brother.


This seems like your definition of what "right" is. You seem to be trying to define what is sin and what isn't by using your logic and the times we're in etc. I believe in God's Word, and according to it...just because you Love someone, doesn't mean you can have sex with them and it's okay in God's eyes. Sex is very, very spiritual...and it's a very serious bond in God's eyes. One that love alone doesn't cover. There needs to be a commitment under marriage or else it's fornication, which IS sin.

And like you said it's not the reality of the situation that we live in, but i thank God even for that. The Bible does say that many will turn to their own ways, and follow the desires of their flesh. All those ppl having sex outside of marriage proves just what the Scripture says. And even though it's normal, and allowed (esp if you're over the age of consent)...that doesn't make it right. God's laws are above all, so even though in today's day and age you have to be 18 to have sex, that's not how God sees it according to His Word. So i do think that very few ppl should be having sex, but that's just not the way it is.....which is fine. People will always do what they want anyway, but thankfully God's Truth isnt something that wavers depending on majority. God's Truth will always be the same.
I will love to respond to the rest of your post, but i have to go to lunch real soon...and i know i wont get a chance to finish my response now, ill get back to you rick. Again, nothing i said was meant to be sarcastic, or confrontational or anything else. I know sometimes in can come off that way in online discussions when you can't actually hear the other person's tone of voice, etc.

Have a blessed day my brother.

I don't take anything you say as confrontational. If you take the time to read lengthy posts, the least I can do is respond as best I can. Hope ur enjoying your lunch.